Am I alone ?

[Corporal Hicks]

My problem isn't them being made - it's that they're a product of humanity in a roundabout way which closes down the universe. It takes this massive ancient feel about them and reduces the backstory of the Alien lore to around 10 years or so prior to Alien.

For me, it was much more interesting when it was possible they were the creation of some ancient race, whose who style was around the biomechanical, for some ancient war with equally strange God-like aliens.

[Biomechanoid]

My general rule of thumb is always refer back to the creator of the fictional universe - that being O'Bannon. And in his original story, it's implied not even the Engineers/Space Jockeys created the creatures. The Space Jockey stumbled upon them just like the humans did (they mention there was no evidence there was more than one Space Jockey).

And the Space Jockey tried to extract a specimen from the ancient pyramid and brought one of the ancient urns into the derelict ship. The story implies the alien creation got out and infected the Space Jockey. The human crew discovered that urn in the derelict ship with the lid removed. Whereas the hundreds of urns in the ancient pyramid were sealed. Except for one, which infected Kane (or in O'Bannon's story - Broussard, who is attacked by the facehugger in the ancient pyramid, not the derelict ship).

Oddly, Prometheus borrows quite a bit from O'Bannon's original story that wasn't used in Alien 79, but Scott reinserts those plot elements into the current story in a way that strays quite far from O'Bannon's original vision.

Today's Alien world is no longer O'Bannon's world. Is that paying tribute to the original author's creation, or is it surgical exploitation - dissecting a work of art and reusing the parts to create his own monster.

In a surreal way, Ridley is a lot like David.

[Scorpio]

It's not a new idea, it was already done in Planet of the Vampires:



Ridley Scott has made them so much more interesting by linking them with the alien instead of just two random creatures who stumbled upon each other.

[Biomechanoid]

It's not a new idea, it was already done in Planet of the Vampires:

That's a somewhat generic claim that can be applied to countless movies. I don't turn my nose up to familiar stories. The same tales are told again and again....to the point it's no longer absorbing the story, it's absorbing how they are presented.

There's that saying, which has been twisted, molded, and wrongly credited as it's been passed along, but the core of it's message remains the same: There are only nine truly original stories since mankind began creating stories. Everything else is just a variant of one of those nine original stories.

[reecebomb]

It's not a new idea, it was already done in Planet of the Vampires:

https://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/images/4646c.jpg

Ridley Scott has made them so much more interesting by linking them with the alien instead of just two random creatures who stumbled upon each other.

Of course that idea isn't new, it all boils down to something man has wondered about since aeons, it's the mystery of what could possibly exist out there that is the most unnerving. This is probably one of the reasons why mankind have  religions to make us feel safe and important. Ridley Scott forced the vast empty and cold universe in to a small corner where now the Alien film is all about making humans as the centre of the universe, where's the fun in that? First he humanized the space jokceys, then he humanized the Alien and in a way he also humanized the AI. Ash was a perfect, very believable portrayal of a dangerous corporate machine in a humanoid form, Bishop was good too. Unlike the theatric but banal touchy feely poetry loving David who wouldn't feel out of place in camp fantasy horror (Fassbender was good though). Ridley should have done a new scifi series about AI completely unrelated to Alien, because i do agree that the AI is very interesting and worth exploring, as many scifi films have proven, but Covenant isn't one of them.

All the things that made the Alien movies unique and stand apart/above other scifi-horror has been lost with the prequels, it might as well be a r-rated Star Trek feature. Don't get me wrong i do like Star Trek but i loved the Alien series for completely different reasons.

[Prof. a]

I totally disagree with the sentiment that the prequels have closed down the universe. Humanity's (very, very limited) involvement in the xenomorph's creation is the only logical, narrative choice from a traditional storytelling perspective. If you are going to create a new series of films, the humans have to fit into the puzzle in some way - assuming we have a film with human leads and not just aliens. Human characters are supposed to be fleshed out and well developed - not just mere fodder for aliens. So, in order to tell the story of the alien/space jockey, there has to be some connection to humanity. Jon Spaights made his pitch just like that - look at the Prometheus special features.

Reecebomb writes: Ridley Scott forced the vast empty and cold universe in to a small corner where now the Alien film is all about making humans as the centre of the universe...

But, your own sentence explains why humans MUST be involved in some way...the universe is VAST and EMPTY. There is no documented, intelligent life forms on other planets. As far as we know, humanity is unique in some way. We haven't been contacted by or discovered any other species like us.

I'd argue that these prequels would be more like Star Trek if there were multiple civilizations throughout the universe (you know, like Star Trek). Instead, Scott does depict a "vast, empty, and cold" universe - he depicts it not just from his camera work (multiple shots are chosen in both Prometheus and Covenant to emphasize this) but in the narrative.

[tleilaxu]

It's not a new idea, it was already done in Planet of the Vampires:

https://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/images/4646c.jpg

Ridley Scott has made them so much more interesting by linking them with the alien instead of just two random creatures who stumbled upon each other.

Of course that idea isn't new, it all boils down to something man has wondered about since aeons, it's the mystery of what could possibly exist out there that is the most unnerving. This is probably one of the reasons why mankind have  religions to make us feel safe and important. Ridley Scott forced the vast empty and cold universe in to a small corner where now the Alien film is all about making humans as the centre of the universe, where's the fun in that? First he humanized the space jokceys, then he humanized the Alien and in a way he also humanized the AI. Ash was a perfect, very believable portrayal of a dangerous corporate machine in a humanoid form, Bishop was good too. Unlike the theatric but banal touchy feely poetry loving David who wouldn't feel out of place in camp fantasy horror (Fassbender was good though). Ridley should have done a new scifi series about AI completely unrelated to Alien, because i do agree that the AI is very interesting and worth exploring, as many scifi films have proven, but Covenant isn't one of them.

All the things that made the Alien movies unique and stand apart/above other scifi-horror has been lost with the prequels, it might as well be a r-rated Star Trek feature. Don't get me wrong i do like Star Trek but i loved the Alien series for completely different reasons.

No, that's just your interpretation of it. Everything in Alien is related to humans, from the physiology of the Alien, its need for a humanoid host, to the Company's involvement and a robot looking like a human. It's about humans and a humanoid monster, the whole "muh ancient mysterious Lovecraftian evil cold space" thing is a fukken meme.

[reecebomb]

I totally disagree with the sentiment that the prequels have closed down the universe. Humanity's (very, very limited) involvement in the xenomorph's creation is the only logical, narrative choice from a traditional storytelling perspective. If you are going to create a new series of films, the humans have to fit into the puzzle in some way - assuming we have a film with human leads and not just aliens. Human characters are supposed to be fleshed out and well developed - not just mere fodder for aliens. So, in order to tell the story of the alien/space jockey, there has to be some connection to humanity. Jon Spaights made his pitch just like that - look at the Prometheus special features.

Reecebomb writes: Ridley Scott forced the vast empty and cold universe in to a small corner where now the Alien film is all about making humans as the centre of the universe...

But, your own sentence explains why humans MUST be involved in some way...the universe is VAST and EMPTY. There is no documented, intelligent life forms on other planets. As far as we know, humanity is unique in some way. We haven't been contacted by or discovered any other species like us.

I'd argue that these prequels would be more like Star Trek if there were multiple civilizations throughout the universe (you know, like Star Trek). Instead, Scott does depict a "vast, empty, and cold" universe - he depicts it not just from his camera work (multiple shots are chosen in both Prometheus and Covenant to emphasize this) but in the narrative.

I think you don't really understand what i meant, also don't blame you as my writing and explanation skills leave a lot to be desired.
It goes without saying that the characters need to be well developed/fleshed out - never suggested otherwise. The prequels made humans as a species as the center of the universe, space jockey went from this enigmatic unknown but obviosly intelligent lifeform to a dumb but intimidating albino space wrestler to basically humans with pale skin and no hair. Unlike Ash, David having feelings and behaving lika a (sociopath) human and all basically makes him a human too, in the end the Alien in a way was created by humans. The whole AI being responsible for the birth of xenomorph could have perhaps worked if it weren't so shoddily written and executed, it's objectively a mess. This doesn't mean you can't like the film, i fancy some flawed films myself.

The original Alien films give the impression that the space travel is still in early stages and we are only beginning to understand the ways of space, that is seemingly bleak and empty and at the same time claustrophobic and endless in scope. We haven't contacted any lifeforms beyond earth but if we do, it may not be that pleasant. In Alien we made contact and we were instantly and violently put  in our place. There maybe something out there that is worse than we could imagine, we are insignificant and that what scares us.
The prequels in comparison put humans on a pedestal and gives really daft explanations how life is made (the black goo).

Star Trek comparison was more on how the Prequels feel more like fantasy films that have no basis in reality, Alien is a documentary next to the prequels. Also Covenant engineer world looked like a Star Trek set to me. In the original Alien series people are only able to reach nothing but cold rocks that we still want to colonize, in the prequels we can travel to picturesque worlds with not much difficulty, not that scary imo.

No, that's just your interpretation of it. Everything in Alien is related to humans, from the physiology of the Alien, its need for a humanoid host, to the Company's involvement and a robot looking like a human. It's about humans and a humanoid monster, the whole "muh ancient mysterious Lovecraftian evil cold space" thing is a fukken meme.

I know i'm not alone on this. You're downplaying something that has captivated us for ages and will continue to do so. No magical black liquid is going to surpass the fear of the unknown.

[SM]

I'm not sure how humanity is put on a pedestal - not only are we at the mercy of the Alien, we're also at the mercy of the pathogen and our own creations in the form of David.

[reecebomb]

I'm not sure how humanity is put on a pedestal - not only are we at the mercy of the Alien, we're also at the mercy of the pathogen and our own creations in the form of David.

At the end of the Covenant the situation of the colonists is pretty dire I agree, but I just didn' buy it how the story got to that point. The aliens were dumb us f**k, both were easily disposed of. David is like a Mary Sue of AI's, his powers are more magical than just artificial intelligence and yes David is our creation, congrats to us! David and Shaw cruising around with the Space Jockey ship like it was nothing again devalues the alien technology, not to mention how easily the engineers are perished, the engineer in Prometheus wasn't the smartest either. Humanity can feel pretty dominant, this is all very strange how stupid many of the human characters act  in the film, you'd think they wouldn't survive the trip to Thailand. The pathogen, I'm not buying it, it's just a plot device that hasn't been thought all the way through.

[Local Trouble]

I like these new movies about as much as I like the skull.

[Gash]

The Skull with Peter Cushing? Yes, that's a good film too.

[SiL]

I'm not sure how humanity is put on a pedestal - not only are we at the mercy of the Alien, we're also at the mercy of the pathogen and our own creations in the form of David.

Just in the sense that everything in the universe seems to revolve around us in one way or another. The Alien isn't some nightmare from deep space we stumbled upon, it's something our neighbour threw together in his back yard last week. The Jockey is literally a man in a suit.

It's just humans all the way down.

[Scorpio]

Then best you just watch Alien 1-4 where the origin isn't explained, because how is a narrative going to work if you don't include humans?  How would the opening scene of Prometheus work if it was a 10 foot skeleton or an elephant creature?  It would be laughably ridiculous. 

And how else is Ridley Scott supposed to show the evolution of the xenomorph?  That's the entire basis of these prequels.

It's an original idea, having an android create the beast.  It's one step above Island of Dr Moreau.

It appears all so called fans want is generic b-grade 1950s era monsters.  Lovecraftian my foot.  It's just the same old monster in space routine that's been done countless times.

[Biomechanoid]

Everything in Alien is related to humans, from the physiology of the Alien......

Conjuring up a truly unique alien creature would have no audience draw. I agree any fictional beings, most of the time always resemble some familiar Earth bound form because they know an unrecognizeable being gives the audience nothing to relate to.

If an Alien fan were to discipline him/herself to a purely objective view, the xenomorph is really not as unique as some fans carry on. Sure its shell and form is intriguing and even mysterious, but the xeno maintains similar Earth-bound physical traits - humanoid, bipedal, two arms, two legs, human torso, head, and so on. It's so familiar, a real human in a suit was able to portray the xeno. As for its other stages  - Chestburter, Facehugger, Egg - all mimicking physical traits of other Earth bound creatures..

Scientists have theorized that if there was evolved life on other worlds, they would look absolutely nothing like human, or any creature of Earth for that matter.

One scientist I watched on a documentary explained that there is only a 3% difference in DNA between humans and squirrels due to us sharing Earth bound genetics. 97% of our DNA is identical to a squirrel, but compare how much we look different from a squirrel. Only a 3% variance resulted in an extreme difference physically.

Now imagine an evolved creature on another world that has, not 90%, not 50%, not even 5%, but zero percent of Earth bound DNA. 100% of its DNA is unique to Earth. I can't even begin to speculate its visual form.