Michael Biehn - It's Going to Happen

[BishopShouldGo]

Life isn't fair, but movies aren't life. Movies are an escape from life.

Saying people who don't like Alien 3 just want Saturday morning cartoons is being condescending.

[windebieste]

How?

-Windebieste.

[The Alien Predator]

Winde also specified in the same post that he likes Saturday morning cartoons and that there's nothing wrong with liking kid's shows. In no way was he being condescending.

His point is not to confuse the tropes from a cartoony franchise where everything's fair and dandy, to a dark and gritty adult oriented pseudo-realistic franchise like Alien which sends the message of how unfair and vulnerable life really is.

Not a lot of film series kill off their main characters. The Predator franchise has yet to kill off a main protagonist lol. Alien had the guts to do it even after several films to say "hey guys, this is how real life basically works... when you give it nightmare steroids."

Bringing back dead characters is just lazy writing. Why not make new ones? Why not make them similar to Hicks and Ripley? A lot of people in real life have similar personalities and skills etc. Why not do that? There's seven billion humans as of 2016, who knows how many there are in 2122 and then 2179 and whenever Alienkamp is set.

You guys ever meet someone and think "oh my God, we are SO alike!"

There's TONS of RIpleys and Hicks and Newts in Alien era humanity... they have yet to find an Alien first. Some people forget that the human race is comprised of many individuals, some of which are totally badass.

This is Mankind vs Alien, not one person constantly finding and surviving a civilization ending monstrosity.

Prometheus showed that, Covenant will show that, Isolation showed that, the mountains of books, comics, games have showed that, even the Predator has showed that with the amount of humans that have faced monsters from other worlds.

What if some director in the future came forth and said he will retcon Aliens because "it has too much of a different theme and didn't give Ripley a proper ending and turned her into an action heroine instead of a survivor?" Then I bet some would finally understand the struggle. 

[Elmazalman]

Yeah,f**k Ripley,Hicks and Newt.Let's see some new characters and situations.

[g2vd]

It's been underperforming for 25 years.

In the last 25 years there have been 5 Alien films Alien 3, Res, The AVP films and Prometheus

Alien 3 ultimately ended up grossing the same amount if not more than the first two though it did it slower and in different territories compared to the first two as one can see in these Box Office Mojo pages.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=alien.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=aliens.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=alien3.htm

And factoring in all the production problems, the film's very downbeat storyline, The Theatrical Cut being the weaker version and itself being radically different from Aliens I say the film did very good, the main problems that lead to Fox considering it a Box Office disappointment are due to it barely surpassing it's listed Budget domestically (Though to be fair several Marvel movies have had that happen to them, it's the Worldwide gross that matters) and coming after Aliens Fox was hoping for a financial home run just like what they had with Aliens, which simply just wouldn't have happened because it's a different genre from Aliens

A:R is definitely more of a financial disappointment. grossing just $47M with a budget of $70M so yes, it did flop hard domestic, but it did end up becoming the highest grossing Alien movie until AVP thanks to some great success overseas and it ended up being a slight improvement over the BO gross of A3, which considering all the weird stuff in A:R is pretty good.

And AVP ended up being the most successful Alien movie released until Prometheus. and a interesting thing is neither AVP films had Ripley in them but yet they were incredibly successful (Especially considering how awful they were).

but I, along with many others do think the franchise is broken.

So the apparent answer is to...just bring back Ripley and that will solve all the franchise's woes? why? how would that fix it? if anything that would only prove the franchise has no legs or financial viability if it can't live without a certain character that means it should just be ended now if that's true.

It could have been so much better.

Agreed. if Fox had just let go of the Ripley character after A3 and didn't try and bring her back with some ridiculous clone stuff and made a new story. we may have already had a Alien 5 maybe we would even be on a 6th, but of course this is just future speculation mumble jumbo.

[Perfect-Organism]

Yeah,f**k Ripley,Hicks and Newt.Let's see some new characters and situations.

You've had AVP, AVPR, Prometheus.  Now you'll have Covenant.  All new characters.  The fans who want new characters got more than a fair treatment.  I say bring these characters back.  And it's not about wanting a kind children's style universe.  Simply put, what happened in Alien 3 and then even more so in Alien Resurrection was so improbable that it is bona fide dumb.  There is no way Ripley wouldn't have gone through the entire are where the Queen was to check and disinfect any signs of the alien.  I mean she didn't even want a dead face-hugger on board the Nostromo.  I am not suggesting that these characters all survive in the next film, but let's have a film which reflects a more likely scenario.  Hicks becomes an alcoholic.  Ripley disappears because she knows too much.  Maybe Hicks disappears too.  Newt ends up in an asylum.  And then we find the home world of the aliens, and the trio regroups for a chance at redemption.  That would work, and it's not contrived, and it's not childish.  It is the natural progression of the series.

[BishopShouldGo]

Yeah, that's a natural progression. We've invested four hours! Build upon this world! Build upon the characters! I have a relationship with these characters now. An investment. I've built relationships with Indiana Jones, Riggs and Murtaugh, Jason Bourne, etc. I want more of their adventures. Put them in thrilling peril but don't kill them off; or if you're going to kill them off do it correctly! Show us WY headquarters. Delve into the space jockey. Show us a Mr. Weyland. Go bigger. Give us beautiful landscapes, planets, weaponry and ships.

Nah? None of that sounds good? You're just gonna give us choppy film about brown corridors and sadness? Ah ok.

[Perfect-Organism]

Well said Bishopshouldgo.

This film will bring some balance.  The old canon will continue to exist for fans of that sort of thing.  And of course we are getting a plethora of non-Ripley Alien films coming out soon by Ridley Scott.  It only makes sense to make one measly film that the fans have wanted for 30 years and see where things go.

For the record, I don't want to see any Ripley wearing alien head-gear.  This could all go so wrong still, but I do have hope...

[SiL]

Aliens is lauded for expanding the the world of the series but all anybody's wanted since then is to rush back to the safe confines of Aliens' world. People don't give a flying f**k about expanding or developing anything, they just want more of the same with bigger set pieces. Alien Resurrection opened up a whole new world of possibilities and opportunities and nobody wants to touch any of it with a ten foot pole.

[Elmazalman]

Yeah,f**k Ripley,Hicks and Newt.Let's see some new characters and situations.

You've had AVP, AVPR, Prometheus.  Now you'll have Covenant.  All new characters.  The fans who want new characters got more than a fair treatment.  I say bring these characters back.  And it's not about wanting a kind children's style universe.  Simply put, what happened in Alien 3 and then even more so in Alien Resurrection was so improbable that it is bona fide dumb.  There is no way Ripley wouldn't have gone through the entire are where the Queen was to check and disinfect any signs of the alien.  I mean she didn't even want a dead face-hugger on board the Nostromo.  I am not suggesting that these characters all survive in the next film, but let's have a film which reflects a more likely scenario.  Hicks becomes an alcoholic.  Ripley disappears because she knows too much.  Maybe Hicks disappears too.  Newt ends up in an asylum.  And then we find the home world of the aliens, and the trio regroups for a chance at redemption.  That would work, and it's not contrived, and it's not childish.  It is the natural progression of the series.

I'll take PROMETHEUS and it's sequels.AVP films i don't need.

[HuDaFuK]

It's been underperforming for 25 years.  Nobody is belittling you for thinking that everything is ok, but I, along with many others do think the franchise is broken.

So the quality (or lack thereof) of the films Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators and Prometheus is directly related to the deaths of Hicks and Newt?

Bold claim.

Alien 3 didn't break anything, and the fact the films haven't been much since is hardly the third instalment's fault.

[Russ]

I don't think anyone on this forum has an issue with 3 ending Ripley's arc. That was brilliant - great, that's exactly how it should have ended. The Hicks and Newt characters were important - I don't think anyone would have complained if THEY'D have been killed in some kind of meaningful way instead of handwaving them to fit the plot.

I'm not having it that "it's supposed to be nihilistic..." Yes it it is, but these characters were - at that time - as important to the franchise as Ripley herself. She survived. They survived... ok, great, we're going to be nihilistic and kill them in 3 - brilliant. But their deaths have to have some meaning ... magic facehugger and two major characters killed off in the first minutes of the film? Not for me We know the Queen tore her own egg sac off - it was a major set piece of Aliens - ECU of the egg-sack being ripped off. And now you're telling me that she put a facehugger in her back pocket just in case she got blown out the (goddamn) airlock?

Its so annoying, because that aside, the Assembly Cut is brilliant. But its utterly flawed because of the magic facehugger and the handwave - so from the get go, its a bad movie that many people (at the time) just didn't invest in. Audiences need to invest in the characters don't they? And in 3, you lost the majority of the audience before the film even got started.

I'm all for killing off major characters - but its kind of like starting the next season of Game of Thrones with Danyeris' funeral and the dwarf saying "Its a bit shit that she fell of the boat and drowned."

[SiL]

It's not like that at all. Hicks had served his purpose by the end of Aliens. He could've died in the elevator and not a damn thing would change about the last act of the movie except a throwaway line between him and Ripley that was cut from the theatrical cut anyway.

Newt had also done her job. Ripley's mission was to save her. She did. Then dying gave her character a new role in the whole mess.

[Russ]

Then why have Hicks survive? If he dies saving Rippers and Newt in Aliens  ace. No problems with that at all.

How does Newt's death give Rippers purpose though - there's nothing there (that I can remember - I watched it a year or so ago now).  As I recall, they make sure that there's no embryo in her and that's it. Her dying has no impact on the plot at all (save that she'd have been an inconvenience). I honestly don't remember it being key to Rippers motivation (but stand to be corrected on that).

Of course, it occurs to me that if Rippers had been too late and Newt had ALREADY been impregnated and a chest burster come out and causes the pod to eject.... Alien escapes before the bloke in the Emperor outfit arrives on the scene... that works for me.

Now we have Ripley wanting to end it even more cos she THOUGHT she saved Newt only to find that the pesky Alien had already killed her... so Newt killed in the first reel has some meaning to the rest of it.

(though, if that HAD happened, we'd be saying - 20 years after the event - "There's no way that the hypersleep chamber scan wouldn't have picked up on the embryo...")

[SiL]

Cameron wanted his happy family at the end. Hicks died at the end of the original treatment, but plot wise he'd served his purpose.

Ripley thinking she'd saved Newt only for her to die is exactly what happened in the film we got.