Favourite Alien Movie?

[BlueMarsalis79]

Alien 1979 gets to get away with it, because of the people in the story and the audience having no preconceived notions, Kane did something dangerous and ought to have taken context clues into account with where he stood, that being the skeleton up above.

Nobody else acts like an idiot for Alien's story to function though.

And they are being sabotaged by Ash the entire go round.

[Cocolyte]

And they are being sabotaged by Ash the entire go round.

Yeah, also that. That's really important.

[Kradan]

There's no risk. Impregnation took hours in the film's timeline, not the microwave bake Aliens of later movies.

Of she saw Newt with a hugger on her and still took her I'd see the point.

All I'm saying is:

Option 1 - Leave the planet behind immediately to nuclear destruction? No risk

Option 2 - Go back in for a survivor? Some risk

It just doesn't seem like Ripley to me to roll those dice even with those odds.

Oh yeah, just leave the girl Ripley has been building a relationship with throughout the movie to die in the claws of Aliens, audience will sure love that

It's not about what the audience wants. It's about what makes a good story. I actually think it would make a much more potent narrative if Ripley had to make the difficult decision of leaving Newt behind even regardless of her bonding with her. Can you imagine how heartbreaking that would be? Great tragedy.

But it kinda is ?  Ripley going back for Newt IS a good story. Just abandoning the girl might've been the more rational thing to do but it wouldn't make sense in the context of everything that happened before. Cameron was going for a more hopeful, "we can do it" tone, what you're describing would be more at home in Alien 3 not Aliens

[SiL]

Aliens also contrasts other characters' decisions with Ripley always trying to take the smart approach.

She tells Gorman the colony isn't secure, warns him about the weapons, wants to immediately nuke the site from orbit.

Her going back for Newt is even a mirror of her going back for the cat - which was also risky, and which audiences thought she was dumb for since 1979. It's on brand for her to go back for the helpless one.

[Kradan]

It's a stupid sexist character arc, but a cohesive character arc nonetheless.

Now what's that even supposed to mean ?

Actually forget I said this part. I don't have the energy atm to write an essay on James Cameron's sexist way of writing women. Just... put a pin in it for now and remind me next time it comes up somewhere.

Alrighty then

Her going back for Newt is even a mirror of her going back for the cat - which was also risky, and which audiences thought she was dumb for since 1979. It's on brand for her to go back for the helpless one.

^^^

[SiL]

It's a stupid sexist character arc, but a cohesive character arc nonetheless.

Now what's that even supposed to mean ?

Actually forget I said this part. I don't have the energy atm to write an essay on James Cameron's sexist way of writing women. Just... put a pin in it for now and remind me next time it comes up somewhere.

Alrighty then

The short version is Cameron's female protagonists can only achieve their goals by having men help them - and their goal is always to become a warrior mother.

Sarah Conner needs Kyle to become a warrior, then needs her son to regain her humanity. Ripley needs Hicks to become a fighter. Etc etc

In a single movie it's whatever but Cameron really doesn't seem interested in women either self actualising or being helped by other women - she must become Rambo Mum and a man must show her the way.

[BlueMarsalis79]

"Leave the f**kin' cat!"

I suppose the difference being I felt you could still have done similar stuff without the military being portrayed as incompetent on top of it all. As opposed to middle class people or "low class" people who are explicitly not trained for fighting anything. 

[SiL]

"Leave the f**kin' cat!"

I suppose the difference being I felt you could still have done similar stuff without the military being portrayed as incompetent on top of it all. As opposed to middle class people or "low class" people who are explicitly not trained for fighting anything. 

The man was working to a pretty clear allegory and there's nothing wrong with that. Cocksure blowhards over reliant on their technology.

I also like how the marines of the future are basically the conscripts of the past. It gives an idea that the technology is running  the military and they basically just need bodies to pull the trigger. I take it as world building.

[426Buddy]

Ripley went back for Newt because of love. When you love someone like that, like your family, sometimes you'll do anything to get them back. Even if it's not logical or a smart play.

[Cocolyte]

There's no risk. Impregnation took hours in the film's timeline, not the microwave bake Aliens of later movies.

Of she saw Newt with a hugger on her and still took her I'd see the point.

All I'm saying is:

Option 1 - Leave the planet behind immediately to nuclear destruction? No risk

Option 2 - Go back in for a survivor? Some risk

It just doesn't seem like Ripley to me to roll those dice even with those odds.

Oh yeah, just leave the girl Ripley has been building a relationship with throughout the movie to die in the claws of Aliens, audience will sure love that

It's not about what the audience wants. It's about what makes a good story. I actually think it would make a much more potent narrative if Ripley had to make the difficult decision of leaving Newt behind even regardless of her bonding with her. Can you imagine how heartbreaking that would be? Great tragedy.

But it kinda is ?  Ripley going back for Newt IS a good story. Just abandoning the girl might've been the more rational thing to do but it wouldn't make sense in the context of everything that happened before. Cameron was going for a more hopeful, "we can do it" tone, what you're describing would be more at home in Alien 3 not Aliens

It's a good story, yes. But I don't think it's thematically consistent with Alien. This is a case of me disagreeing with the direction Cameron took it. If you want Aliens to end happy, then it was executed as well as it could be. I just don't think it should have ended happy, though. It's an Alien movie after all.

Ripley went back for Newt because of love. When you love someone like that, like your family, sometimes you'll do anything to get them back. Even if it's not logical or a smart play.

I know. And I would have made the same choice. I just don't think Ellen Ripley would have made that choice.

Her going back for Newt is even a mirror of her going back for the cat - which was also risky, and which audiences thought she was dumb for since 1979. It's on brand for her to go back for the helpless one.

Didn't she just like, pick up the cat on her way out? It's a magnitude of difference from going back into the belly of the beast...

The short version is Cameron's female protagonists can only achieve their goals by having men help them - and their goal is always to become a warrior mother.

Sarah Conner needs Kyle to become a warrior, then needs her son to regain her humanity. Ripley needs Hicks to become a fighter. Etc etc

In a single movie it's whatever but Cameron really doesn't seem interested in women either self actualising or being helped by other women - she must become Rambo Mum and a man must show her the way.

Hey cool we're on the same page for once : D

[BlueMarsalis79]

That's fine and all, and it's excellently constructed, but that allegory being present does not change how I feel about their performance.

I like Aliens as it is, but I think perhaps in a future Alien versus the military type film, instead of me the audience knowing how it is going to play out ahead of time with people who do not know the threat awaiting them, like the previous six films now, a prepared military force not winning could be infinitely more interesting at this point.

[SiL]

@Cocolyte

Didn't she just like, pick up the cat on her way out? It's a magnitude of difference from going back into the belly of the beast...

No. While on her own with the Alien lurking she went across half a deck at least looking for it.

The movie goes out of its way to set this up as her being next to be killed, as the Alien has only attacked people in isolation so far.

[Kradan]

@Cocolyte, but Alien had a happy ending too - Ripley beat the monster, she blew it out the f**king airlock, she survived

[Cocolyte]

@Cocolyte

Didn't she just like, pick up the cat on her way out? It's a magnitude of difference from going back into the belly of the beast...

No. While on her own with the Alien lurking she went across half a deck at least looking for it.

The movie goes out of its way to set this up as her being next to be killed, as the Alien has only attacked people in isolation so far.

Oh. then yeah that's stupid lol

@Cocolyte, but Alien had a happy ending too - Ripley has beaten the monster, she blew it out the f**king airlock, she survived

But everybody died...

[Kradan]

She didn't. Aliens also had plenty of people die, heck, entire colony was overtaken by Aliens - lots of men, women and children suffered one of the most painful death possible