VMP2: PREDATOR 2: Is the City Hunter Predator "bad blood"?

[Voodoo Magic]

You've not really made an argument for why it's not valid based on everything else we've seen.

Since it's quite effortless to align both human and Yautja hunting morality, using that as context, I find it hard to justify that sadistic behavior.

And I will counter that you haven't really made an argument why a Predator going to a human's place of mourning to mentally f*ck with him, then leave, does align with that hunting morality based on what we've seen.

[Stitch]

The City Hunter was following Harrigan through the city but not hunting him. Not killing him. The City Hunter followed Harrigan to seek out the people close to him and kill them, and leave Mike alive to suffer through it.

Well the Colombians and Jamaicans that he was killing beforehand weren't Mike's buddies, CH was just hunting them because they were dangerous.
I think CH basically was tracking Mike because he saw him as the most dangerous and therefore the most rewarding hunt. He concentrated on studying Mike but also continued his own hunt. This meant that he happened to hunt people close to Mike, simply because they were worthy of hunting and they were near him at the time because he was hunting Mike.
I think predators as a species like to hunt by psychologically screwing with their prey, by using the vocal mimicry (as JH did) or other means. CH saw an opportunity to do this with Danny's necklace. I don't see it as being particularly bad blooded, just part of standard hunting practice.

[Voodoo Magic]

The City Hunter was following Harrigan through the city but not hunting him. Not killing him. The City Hunter followed Harrigan to seek out the people close to him and kill them, and leave Mike alive to suffer through it.

Well the Colombians and Jamaicans that he was killing beforehand weren't Mike's buddies, CH was just hunting them because they were dangerous.

Agreed. Normal hunting practices at this point.

I think CH basically was tracking Mike because he saw him as the most dangerous and therefore the most rewarding hunt. He concentrated on studying Mike but also continued his own hunt. This meant that he happened to hunt people close to Mike, simply because they were worthy of hunting and they were near him at the time because he was hunting Mike.

I have to disagree there, due to the fact that he brought Danny's necklace for Mike to find at the cemetary. That suggests more than happenstance, more than a coincidence of just hunting who's nearby at the time.

I think predators as a species like to hunt by psychologically screwing with their prey, by using the vocal mimicry (as JH did) or other means. CH saw an opportunity to do this with Danny's necklace. I don't see it as being particularly bad blooded, just part of standard hunting practice.

Fair enough. But I equate the vocal mimicry not to screwing with their prey, but as a hunting tool, equating to a waterfowler hunter that uses a little wooden duck call to lure real ducks into the open so they can shoot them. (It sounds like a real duck!) These are all just tools of a sport hunter. 





Regardless if the City Hunter is killed by the Elder because he lost to his prey, will die slowly from his injuries anyway, is bad blood, or for some unknown reason not theorized yet... these PREDATOR 2 STORYBOARDS (shared on Predatorium back in the day) feature the Elder Grayback Predator slitting the City Hunter's throat and are pretty cool:

[SM]

It seems like it all hinges on redefining 'bad blood' so it includes messing with your prey.

[Voodoo Magic]

It seems like it all hinges on redefining 'bad blood' so it includes messing with your prey.

See, that's the thing, when our definition of "Bad Blood" includes "severely violating aspects of the Yautja Honor Code - intentional or not", until we get our hands on an Official Yautja Honor Code book, there is no "redefining" as you say, because it's never been defined. All we can do is extrapolate based on the information we have been given.

And because it's smartly left ambiguous (some didn't even want to show the Predator ship), all we can do is recognize the glaring hunting parallels in our society, apply logic, work within the actions and rules established in the films, see if there are any characters contradicting some of said actions, and see if anyone is acting out of character.

And when doing so, it can be fun as a fan. Live and let live brother.

[SiL]

Since it's quite effortless to align both human and Yautja hunting morality, using that as context, I find it hard to justify that sadistic behavior.

A human hunting tactic is to injure one to lure out others. f**king with others to get to the prey you want is absolutely a thing hunters do.

And I will counter that you haven't really made an argument why a Predator going to a human's place of mourning to mentally f*ck with him, then leave, does align with that hunting morality based on what we've seen.

You're the one making the argument that it doesn't, the burden of proof is on you.

Part of your argument is the end of the film with how the other Predators react, but your argument there is "It's ambiguous!" when you haven't shown why it can't be perfectly explained by what we know. It's like you're starting with the idea he's a bad blood and working backwards to justify it.

If their actions can be explained by what we know then it's illogical to call it ambiguous.

[Voodoo Magic]

Since it's quite effortless to align both human and Yautja hunting morality, using that as context, I find it hard to justify that sadistic behavior.

A human hunting tactic is to injure one to lure out others. f**king with others to get to the prey you want is absolutely a thing hunters do.

What?  You're watching to many movies my friend. That's not sports hunting. I'd expect something like that from a hunter not caring to kill younglings or the pregnant.

And I will counter that you haven't really made an argument why a Predator going to a human's place of mourning to mentally f*ck with him, then leave, does align with that hunting morality based on what we've seen.

You're the one making the argument that it doesn't, the burden of proof is on you.

I did make my arguement. Countered many points from the "skinned alive" team. It's okay if we disagree.

Part of your argument is the end of the film with how the other Predators react, but your argument there is "It's ambiguous!" when you haven't shown why it can't be perfectly explained by what we know. It's like you're starting with the idea he's a bad blood and working backwards to justify it.

I literally have no idea what you said there.

Warm hugs to ya.

[SM]

It seems like it all hinges on redefining 'bad blood' so it includes messing with your prey.

See, that's the thing, when our definition of "Bad Blood" includes "severely violating aspects of the Yautja Honor Code - intentional or not", until we get our hands on an Official Yautja Honor Code book, there is no "redefining" as you say, because it's never been defined. All we can do is extrapolate based on the information we have been given.

And because it's smartly left ambiguous (some didn't even want to show the Predator ship), all we can do is recognize the glaring hunting parallels in our society, apply logic, work within the actions and rules established in the films, see if there are any characters contradicting some of said actions, and see if anyone is acting out of character.

And when doing so, it can be fun as a fan. Live and let live brother.

Bad bloods ignore the rules - not killing armed opponents for example.  As far as we can see this Predator follows the rules.  The original Predator messes with Dutch by not simply shooting his head off; same kind of deal with Harrigan.  Are they both bad bloods?

It's like you're starting with the idea he's a bad blood and working backwards to justify it.

Precisement.

[SiL]

^ That, basically.

You have to show that what he does in the cemetery is against the rules.

My last paragraph was written in very plain English and addresses the use of the reaction to CH's fate in the ship as an argument that he was a Bad Blood.

[SM]

In the final scene on the ship they seem to be forming a kind of funeral procession.

I'm sure if the Predator had killed Harrigan he would've been lauded for defeating a foe that had cost him his hand.

[Voodoo Magic]

It seems like it all hinges on redefining 'bad blood' so it includes messing with your prey.

See, that's the thing, when our definition of "Bad Blood" includes "severely violating aspects of the Yautja Honor Code - intentional or not", until we get our hands on an Official Yautja Honor Code book, there is no "redefining" as you say, because it's never been defined. All we can do is extrapolate based on the information we have been given.

And because it's smartly left ambiguous (some didn't even want to show the Predator ship), all we can do is recognize the glaring hunting parallels in our society, apply logic, work within the actions and rules established in the films, see if there are any characters contradicting some of said actions, and see if anyone is acting out of character.

And when doing so, it can be fun as a fan. Live and let live brother.

Bad bloods ignore the rules - not killing armed opponents for example.  As far as we can see this Predator follows the rules.

I can't say that to be a "Bad Blood" you have to ignore a sweeping all the rules, but if the City Hunter was a BB, yep, he definitely followed some ethics. I mentioned that in the original post. But to me he also did things later against that line of ethics, also mentioned in the original post. 

The City Hunter seemed like he was being a normal honorable Yautja hunter shooting up drug gangs, until Harrigan arrived. Then (to me) something seemed to change. Maybe he saw Harrigan as a competitive hunter encroaching his game. Ooooo, now THAT'S an interesting theory!!!

[SM]

If he followed "some ethics" then how is he a bad blood?  Surely a bad blood would've killed Leona and the old lady in her apartment.

[Stitch]

If he followed "some ethics" then how is he a bad blood?  Surely a bad blood would've killed Leona and the old lady in her apartment.

Exactly. Why follow some rules and not others? If anything, it implies that screwing with your prey is totally allowed within the rules of the hunt (whatever they may be), because CH did it, but didn't kill Leona or candy kid.

[Voodoo Magic]

If he followed "some ethics" then how is he a bad blood?  Surely a bad blood would've killed Leona and the old lady in her apartment.

Exactly. Why follow some rules and not others? If anything, it implies that screwing with your prey is totally allowed within the rules of the hunt (whatever they may be), because CH did it, but didn't kill Leona or candy kid.

I believe you both are misinterpreting what "bad blood" means. It's a label for a Yautja that was found to have brought dishonor to its people.

Since the phrase was created in the EU, just look to the EU for its open-ended meaning.  For example, the Predator Two-Stripes became "bad blood" for taking credit for another Predator's kill.

It's not all or nothing here guys.

[SM]

I'm not seeing how he's brought dishonour to anyone - except maybe for getting beaten.