Are Out of the Shadows, River of Pain and Sea of Sorrows Canon?

Started by Frosty Venom, May 01, 2019, 12:31:52 PM

Are Out of the Shadows, River of Pain and Sea of Sorrows canon?

Yes
No
Author
Are Out of the Shadows, River of Pain and Sea of Sorrows Canon? (Read 3,142 times)

Frosty Venom

Is this trilogy of books canon to the Alien Universe?

Corporal Hicks

As far as Fox are concerned, yes.

Frosty Venom

Well that has some far reaching implications on the universe... Namely relating to David being the origin of all Xenomorphs. Which can't be the case if they are canon.

426Buddy


The Old One

The Old One

#4
No.

Not for myself, purely on the basis of suspension of disbelief.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Frosty Venom on May 01, 2019, 02:00:04 PM
Well that has some far reaching implications on the universe... Namely relating to David being the origin of all Xenomorphs. Which can't be the case if they are canon.

When/if that definitely turns out to be the case, I'm sure they'll cease to be canon. But as it stands they are.

Hudson

It doesn't really matter to me what Fox considers canon or not, because the Alien franchise is primarily cinematic, and none of the EU is ever acknowledged in the films. So if you don't want something to be canon outside of the movies, there's nothing obligating you to follow any directive. Plus, River of Pain does everything it can, along with most of the stories in Bug Hunt, to cheapen the conflict of Aliens. For me, no.

Plus, Fox has been changing ownership so whatever Fox said in 2014 doesn't really matter now. Not to mention, whoever it is at Fox that handles the Alien property w/r/t Titan Books/Dark Horse, etc. seems to change with time as well. There's not enough consistency to back up what is and what is not canon in the EU from their perspective.

Xenomrph

Quote from: Hudson on May 01, 2019, 06:56:15 PM
Plus, River of Pain does everything it can, along with most of the stories in Bug Hunt, to cheapen the conflict of Aliens.
Could you elaborate on this?

Nostromo

Out of the Shadows

If possible, please no, unless Ash sent the ship that way...but still, how about a recorded Ripley dream instead? Same with Alien 3. Turn those into 2 Ripley nightmares, heck Alien 4 as well.

River of Pain Yes great on Audible

Sea of Sorrows

This is awesome on Audible, great character building

Even the pre Isolation novel-audiocast s great in a way, because it can opens more history and world building.

SM

The book says Ash sent the ship that way.

HuDaFuK

Out of the Shadows is rendered impossible by the fact Ripley's harpoon gun can be seen still wedged under the Narcissus door at the start of Aliens, so the hatch clearly hasn't opened at any point between films.

By implication that renders Sea of Sorrows null and void too, given that it's a sequel.

As for River of Pain, I just can't get over an entire platoon of Marines being at Hadley's Hope before Aliens and absolutely no one from Gorman's squad making mention of it, ever.

But at the end of the day...

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 01, 2019, 01:00:12 PMAs far as Fox are concerned, yes.

^ This.

Nostromo

Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 02, 2019, 08:23:06 AM
Out of the Shadows is rendered impossible by the fact Ripley's harpoon gun can be seen still wedged under the Narcissus door at the start of Aliens, so the hatch clearly hasn't opened at any point between films.

What if she took it off before going into hypersleep, without us knowing obviously lol.

By implication that renders Sea of Sorrows null and void too, given that it's a sequel.

Ok, so that mine in Sea of Sorrows was the same as the one in Out of the Shadows, just set right before or?

As for River of Pain, I just can't get over an entire platoon of Marines being at Hadley's Hope before Aliens and absolutely no one from Gorman's squad making mention of it, ever.

What if Gorman never knew about it or wasn't told anything?

But at the end of the day...

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 01, 2019, 01:00:12 PMAs far as Fox are concerned, yes.

^ This.

Local Trouble

Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 02, 2019, 08:23:06 AM
Out of the Shadows is rendered impossible by the fact Ripley's harpoon gun can be seen still wedged under the Narcissus door at the start of Aliens, so the hatch clearly hasn't opened at any point between films.

By implication that renders Sea of Sorrows null and void too, given that it's a sequel.

As for River of Pain, I just can't get over an entire platoon of Marines being at Hadley's Hope before Aliens and absolutely no one from Gorman's squad making mention of it, ever.

But at the end of the day...

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 01, 2019, 01:00:12 PMAs far as Fox are concerned, yes.

^ This.

You just made the situation seem even more absurd than I already thought it was.

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Nostromo on May 02, 2019, 05:32:30 PMWhat if she took it off before going into hypersleep, without us knowing obviously lol.

Took what off?

When Ripley shoots the Alien at the end of the first film, the harpoon gun is pulled from her hands and gets caught underneath the shuttle hatch as it slams closed. You can just about see it there, still wedged under the door, before the salvage crew cut their way inside at the start of Aliens. If the hatch had been opened at any time in the interim the gun would've fallen loose.

The book doesn't say she re-wedges it under the door when she leaves the Marion (why would she do that anyway?), and moreover she's actually unconscious at the time - it's Hoop who puts her back into cryo, and he couldn't possibly put the gun back (again, why?) because he has to shut the door from the outside so he can manually launch the shuttle from the Marion.

The only way it could theoretically work is if the hatch shut on it so hard at the end of Alien it literally fused the metal with the hatchway, but I sincerely doubt that's even possible and it would still require us to believe it didn't get knocked loose by everyone to'ing and fro'ing throughout the novel.

Moreover River of Pain specifically says the salvage team find the harpoon gun lying on a console inside when they come aboard - which doesn't correspond at all to the second film, but is clearly meant to tie into Out of the Shadows.

Quote from: Nostromo on May 02, 2019, 05:32:30 PMOk, so that mine in Sea of Sorrows was the same as the one in Out of the Shadows, just set right before or?

Same mine, but many years later.

Which additionally introduces the goof of how the mine's still there at all, because in Out of the Shadows the heroes set a fuel cell to blow up and collapse it to seal the Aliens inside; one of them (Hoop, I think) basically says the entire area for several kilometres around is going to be turned into a cloud of dust. Yet somehow in Sea of Sorrows the mine is almost completely intact.

Quote from: Nostromo on May 02, 2019, 05:32:30 PMWhat if Gorman never knew about it or wasn't told anything?

He would've done though, because USCM command would have known there were Marines stationed there, and USCM command had no reason whatsoever to withhold that information from a follow-up mission.

Nostromo

Nostromo

#14
QuoteYou can just about see it there, still wedged under the door, before the salvage crew cut their way inside at the start of Aliens. If the hatch had been opened at any time in the interim the gun would've fallen loose.

Oh sh!t, I never knew this. I guess people here know more details than Fox knows about some things. Yeah, that's a stupid one though. It should be re written or something, it's just too much to swallow........All this mess just to shove Ripley on an Alien another adventure.......

QuoteSame mine, but many years later.

Which additionally introduces the goof of how the mine's still there at all, because in Out of the Shadows the heroes set a fuel cell to blow up and collapse it to seal the Aliens inside; one of them (Hoop, I think) basically says the entire area for several kilometres around is going to be turned into a cloud of dust. Yet somehow in Sea of Sorrows the mine is almost completely intact.

Well there you go lol. Looks like another big bobo. Loved the characters and story in this one though.

QuoteHe would've done though, because USCM command would have known there were Marines stationed there, and USCM command had no reason whatsoever to withhold that information from a follow-up mission.

Weren't these some of the marines that left the planet in the first issue of Fire and Stone?



AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News