Alien: Covenant: One Year Later - AvP Galaxy Podcast #68

[David Weyland]

Whatever happens in the next prequel,  I believe Ash is renegade from WY and is actually either:  reprogrammed by David, David himself uploaded(As I believe he did to Walter's body) or David creates a hive mind network amongst AI....You could then argue the hearing panel in Aliens could legitimately claim  ignorance but I dunno

[SiL]

Except the part where Ash is operating on Company orders.

[SM]

The inquiry board can legitimately claim ignorance because the only person from the Company is Burke.

[MU-TH-UR 6000]

Can we just... ignore the events on the original quadrilogy, trying to wrap up David's story instead and just make a little bit more sense of the new stuff introduced with the prequels? I just don't want any connections with the first movie at all, it will only add to the clutter of storytelling that are the prequels. Just hint or downright say the engineers were tinkering with xenos way before David to solve the LV-426 derelict in an elegant way, proving David is a bit of a fraud. Making a bridge-movie between Covenant and Alien and their characters will always be pretty boring and underwhelming.

[The Old One]

Agreed, have the last entries relate thematically not literally.

[David Weyland]

Can we just... ignore the events on the original quadrilogy, trying to wrap up David's story instead and just make a little bit more sense of the new stuff introduced with the prequels? I just don't want any connections with the first movie at all, it will only add to the clutter of storytelling that are the prequels. Just hint or downright say the engineers were tinkering with xenos way before David to solve the LV-426 derelict in an elegant way, proving David is a bit of a fraud. Making a bridge-movie between Covenant and Alien and their characters will always be pretty boring and underwhelming.

Unfortunately for you, isn't that the point of these prequels?
I get that a lot of people feel certain elements are sacrosanct to them in terms of the original horror & mystery to the Xenos but this elegant way to show David as a fraud & that they existed in their classic form definitively, thousands of years ago boring actually
The new irony now of the Alien title is a wonderfully perverse reflection of humanity and its creations...or perhaps on an interstellar scale of history repeating itself?..
But I think the actual Alien element in the story is the Black goo. It is from here that there is the capacity to open up the horrific possibilities beyond anything we've seen with the Xenos made by the Engineers or other species yet to be introduced as the makers of the goo.
I feel that there is something majorly missed by people in Prometheus. I could be wrong but I find a path cleared in terms of understanding of what we are being told.  When they are in the mural room- It is when David touches the black goo urns & remarks, ' Organic' that the 'Paintings in the ceiling begin to change. Shaw notices this and thinks they've 'contaminated the environment in the room'
Holloway soon after shines a light on the mural for the first time
Therefore I hypothesise that the mural is in fact a form of 'Black goo mirror' or a form of readout of the shape of reaction the organisms in the room will turn into as a result in contact with the substance.

The origin of the classic Xenos is I believe going to remain the result of David, personally in terms of the bigger picture I love this decision & along with the illustrations made by Dane Hallett & co, the spirit of Gigers original bio tech vision is in place to develop further in the future.
How I'd like to see it is David being chased by the Engineers & their form of Xenos, a WY Android army(Who David turns & or hacks to his side like Walter & that Ash is actually one of the androids), they defeat the Engineers in a super battle and hijack multiple engineer ships seeding the galaxy with Xenos except the Derelict which is a result of human meddling, probably Daniels & Tenesssee or some other character maybe an engineer or one of its 'Wolves'(Advent)
I'd like to think David gets away to come back in future films but I doubt it. I can accept he needs some bad karma.. Still with AI, he could probably save himself on a memory stick or he uploads or sends Ash to keep his work alive.
Sorry about the jumpy thoughts but at the end of the day, in a deliciously sinister way, rather than anything else by being a species that specifically existed before, the Deacon is a result of Black goo underpinning an aborted human foetus that turned into a giant sex organ like Facehugger & an Engineer(Who could actually be a form of AI robot super soldier, a step up from Planet 4 inhabitants)
The Neomorph, again is a result of black goo, Planet 4 spores & a human rather than intelligent design.
The Xenos however are David making a bespoke model as a result of his research splicing the perceived best bits for him along with Shaw on Planet 4
So, in essence the black goo allows so much more to refresh the franchise, I don't have a problem & totally see the long term common sense and vision Ridley Scott has mapped out on its behalf, despite the flaws of the prequels themselves. I hope he sticks with it rather than succumbs again to the fan base's complaints.

[Immortan Jonesy]

Can we just... ignore the events on the original quadrilogy, trying to wrap up David's story instead and just make a little bit more sense of the new stuff introduced with the prequels? I just don't want any connections with the first movie at all, it will only add to the clutter of storytelling that are the prequels. Just hint or downright say the engineers were tinkering with xenos way before David to solve the LV-426 derelict in an elegant way, proving David is a bit of a fraud. Making a bridge-movie between Covenant and Alien and their characters will always be pretty boring and underwhelming.

You are interested in a subtle link, which is not bad and can be very healthy for both movies series (prequels and main tetralogy). In my case, however, I would like to see David finding the original Space Jockey (already dead and mummified of course).

Can we just... ignore the events on the original quadrilogy, trying to wrap up David's story instead and just make a little bit more sense of the new stuff introduced with the prequels? I just don't want any connections with the first movie at all, it will only add to the clutter of storytelling that are the prequels. Just hint or downright say the engineers were tinkering with xenos way before David to solve the LV-426 derelict in an elegant way, proving David is a bit of a fraud. Making a bridge-movie between Covenant and Alien and their characters will always be pretty boring and underwhelming.

Unfortunately for you, isn't that the point of these prequels?
I get that a lot of people feel certain elements are sacrosanct to them in terms of the original horror & mystery to the Xenos but this elegant way to show David as a fraud & that they existed in there classic form before definitively I find boring actually

I think the Alien in the story is the Black goo. It is from here that there is the capacity to open up the horrific possibilities beyond anything we've seen with the Xenos

I feel that there is something majorly missed by people in Prometheus. I could be wrong but I find a path cleared in terms of understanding of what we are being told.  When they are in the mural room- It is when David touches the black goo urns & remarks, ' Organic' that the 'Paintings in the ceiling begin to change. Shaw notices this and thinks they've 'contaminated the environment in the room'
Holloway soon after shines a light on the mural for the first time

Therefore I hypothesise that the mural is in fact a form of 'Black goo mirror' or a form of readout of the shape of reaction the organisms in the room will turn into as a result in contact with the substance.
The origin of the classic Xenos is I believe going to remain the result of David, personally in terms of the bigger picture I love this decision & along with the illustrations made by Dane, the spirit of Gigers original bio tech vision is in place to develop further in the future.
How I'd like to see it is David being chased by the Engineers & a WY Android army(Who he turns of hacks to his side like Walter & that Ash is actually one of the androids), they defeat the Engineers in a battle and hijack multiple engineer ships seeding the galaxy with Xenos except the Derelict which is a result of human meddling, probably Daniels & Tenesssee or some other character maybe an engineer. I'd like to think David gets away to come back in future films but I doubt it. Still with AI, he could probably save himself on a memory stick!
Sorry about the jumpy thoughts but At the end of the day, in a deliciously sinister way, rather than anything else, rather than being a species that specifically existed before, the Deacon is a result of Black goo underpinning an aborted human foetus that turned into a giant sex organ & an Engineer(Who could actually be a form of AI robot super soldier, a step up from Planet 4 inhabitants)
The Neomorph, again is a result of black goo, spores & a human rather than intelligent design.
The Xenos however are David making a bespoke model as a result of his research on Planet 4
So, in essence the black goo allows so much more to refresh the franchise, I don't have a problem & totally see the long term common sense and vision Ridley Scott has mapped out on its behalf, despite the flaws of the prequels themselves. I hope he sticks with it rather than succumbs again to the fan base's complaints

As much as I like the prequels as a canonical part of the main franchise, I'd say this prequel series should have remained as its own thing: Alien spin-off or even a soft reboot showing a parallel timeline. However, I agree on one thing in particular: if the events of such prequels have little (if any) influence on the events of the main tetralogy...what is the justification for the existence of such stories in the first place is like a prequel to Star Wars revealing in the third installment that the protagonist or main villain is not Darth Vader, but rather a fraud...making totally pointless the existence of these new stories and characters or at least, it doesn't make sense as part of a prequel / origin story 

[The Old One]

I don't hope to see Ridley Scott compromise to the complaints of fanatics that have never worked in a creative industry, especially if he continues the rather interesting approach of taking inspiration from mythology and classical imagery such as John Milton's Paradise Lost.

I'd hope that if he returns to complete David's story and in this instance he has a clear idea of a narrative arc,
embellished by a superb script.
I don't see anything worthwhile in the Pathogen as an expansionist tool without boundaries, it has to be clearly defined.
It's a fascinating tool- but that one element can't carry the entire franchise, nor can the Alien alone.

It was the collaborative process that, in my opinion made the original Alien films work as successfully as they did.
Despite R.S now having nearly complete creative control, appreciably so due to his pedigree the prequel films fall apart in the writing department-
He's great at creating ideas, things you wouldn't think of- but he lacks a David Giler and Walter Hill to refine them, or reject them.

I would have never have thought of the Alien as a "biological AI"  for instance but I'm glad that Ridley Scott did.
I think David being their creator works within the context of the voyage of the Covenant but in the context of "A L I E N" as an entity and a universe it does not.

I much prefer the idea that while unnatural as far as we can tell, the Alien is a construct that willed itself into existence.
It doesn't have a homeworld or detectable point of origin- it just is.

How to convey that within the context of the Pathogen in the hands of the Engineers would be difficult, though.

What is the justification of Ridley Scott's prequels if they don't connect directly? To expand the universe, the mythos- simple.

[MU-TH-UR 6000]

I'm not 100% opposed to have some connections between the prequels and the quadrilogy. I just don't want the third prequel to be solely about that connection, if you catch my drift. Some subtle elements here and there, sure, I'd love it but not make the whole movie about "how the big guy got onto THE planet" as Ridley put it.

Which isn't to say that they couldn't pull that off with an interesting movie, I enjoyed that three way war that Ridley described he was interested in. If that culminated on the juggernaut crashing, ok cool. I just want new things. Hints that there are much weirder things out there (hell, the xeno could be one just under different forms, something that's been around since ages. As The Old One just put it: it just is.)

I'd love for the final movie to end on a Gigeresque planet, full of weird shit going on that's too hard to put onto words, with some xeno-like creatures around. Some could be evil, others were just there, kinda basking in rivers of black goo or something. Pretty much like the Scorn videogame landscapes. It would leave the door open for future movies to go crazy and end the prequels with David or a crew stranded on that "paradise", ending everything in traditional Alien-nihilistic fashion.

[Immortan Jonesy]

I don't hope to see Ridley Scott compromise to the complaints of fanatics that have never worked in a creative industry, especially if he continues the rather interesting approach of taking inspiration from mythology and classical imagery such as John Milton's Paradise Lost.

1. There is nothing wrong with having a critical opinion about a piece of fiction, as long as it is well-made criticism.

2. Sometimes, even an authority could be wrong about something.


3. The fanatics that have never worked in a creative industry, are paying for this pieces of entertainment. However, vote with the wallet is more efficiently than just moaning al the time via the internet.

What is the justification of Ridley Scott's prequels if they don't connect directly? To expand the universe, the mythos- simple.

Fair enough. But still, such films don't need to be prequels and Ridley Scott has no need to say "It will scare the living shit out of you" before the release 

I'm not 100% opposed to have some connections between the prequels and the quadrilogy. I just don't want the third prequel to be solely about that connection, if you catch my drift. Some subtle elements here and there, sure, I'd love it but not make the whole movie about "how the big guy got onto THE planet" as Ridley put it.

Which isn't to say that they couldn't pull that off with an interesting movie, I enjoyed that three way war that Ridley described he was interested in. If that culminated on the juggernaut crashing, ok cool. I just want new things. Hints that there are much weirder things out there (hell, the xeno could be one just under different forms, something that's been around since ages. As The Old One just put it: it just is.)

I'd love for the final movie to end on a Gigeresque planet, full of weird shit going on that's too hard to put onto words, with some xeno-like creatures around. Some could be evil, others were just there, kinda basking in rivers of black goo or something. Pretty much like the Scorn videogame landscapes. It would leave the door open for future movies to go crazy and end the prequels with David or a crew stranded on that "paradise", ending everything in traditional Alien-nihilistic fashion.

I always wanted this story to be its own thing with everything and new monsters. When I'm talking about the Space Jockey, it's half serious half joke. Even a guilty pleasure. However, I understand that we don't need that particular reference to finish the story and the (if any) connections can be handled with subtlety and elegance as you have said.

[Corporal Hicks]

3. The fanatics that have never worked in a creative industry, are paying for this pieces of entertainment. However, vote with the wallet is more efficiently than just moaning al the time via the internet.

At the end of the day, they did with Covenant. Record making drop-off in in-take in its second week. While it wasn't a failure, it did poor enough to make Fox put on the breaks and reconsider what it and Scott were doing with the series.

I don't hope to see Ridley Scott compromise to the complaints of fanatics that have never worked in a creative industry, especially if he continues the rather interesting approach of taking inspiration from mythology and classical imagery such as John Milton's Paradise Lost.

That's what got us Covenant, though. I still don't recall the complaint being as loud as Scott seemed to put it across. But him noting some fan issues was what got everyone Covenant.