Shane Black is doing a SEQUEL!

[Russ]

http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/the-sexual-predator-marco-mazzoni-arnold-get-to-the-choppa-alien-terminator.jpg

[Son Of Kane]

Could do without the boobs though.

I think a lot of us could do without them. Personally, I don't mind as long as they aren't Denise Milani or Leanne Crow sized boobs. Female Hunters need to either have little mounds or simply be flat.. most likely flat considering the heavy intensive activity which Predators often participate in.

But I don't care if we get a male or female Hunter.. I just want don't want to see unnecessary additions to the Predator culture, or biology for that matter. If you ask me, I think we've seen enough of the culture so.. I could do without more looks into the culture. Just focus on the Hunt.

If I'm honest, in comparison to the Alien films- I feel like we know absolutely nothing about Predators.

[The Shuriken]

I admit I do sorry about that sometimes. I'm always weary of something that will ruin the mythos. But I have faith in Shane Black, I think he will do us justice.

[RakaiThwei]

If I'm honest, in comparison to the Alien films- I feel like we know absolutely nothing about Predators.

Well, let's go over what we do know from a standpoint of the films only.

We do know that they come down to Earth and have been visiting for a long time to participate in hunts. They likely have been coming down for thousands of years. To them we are one of the most dangerous big game around.

We do know that they are a clan based society. There is an alpha at the head of every clan and they usually coordinate the hunt. These alphas are usually highly respected in their clans and for good reason. Hunters can either hunt alone or hunt in packs.

Predators have a sense of honor or if you don't like the "H" word, then let's say at the least a guideline of ethics. Predators seemingly have restrictions on what is considered fair game and what isn't. If a prey isn't armed or is deemed dangerous, it's not really worth hunting and making a trophy. If a prey is considered terminally ill, it is not seen as worthy. If a prey happens to be female and with child, it's generally considered hands off and taboo. If a hunter is killed in the presence of another hunter or it's clan, the prey is often given something of a token of respect-- primary case would be Harrigan.

Assuming if we count the AvP films as part of the mythos or a side-story continuity, and this is just an assumption-- we do know that Predators have not only been visiting Earth but at some point they were interpreted as deities and worshiped as such. They've also been harvesting and breeding Xenomorphs for blooding rituals. They also build pyramids which reconfigure.

There appears to be two different races of Predators, or sub-species. The mainstream Predators who we've seen in the previous two films (four if the AvP films are counted) and then there are the Super Predators, alternatively known as the Berserkers. The relationship between the two species is considered antagonistic. The Super Predators seemingly abduct their prey and place them onto the game preserve planet, this likely includes the mainstream Predators-- as Nolan did say "The bigger ones hunt the smaller ones" and we see mainstream Predator remains in the camp.

Clan disputes do happen for a variety of reasons. We don't know what those reasons are but they do happen. Often they are bloody and violent and usually are resolved until an entire clan is exterminated-- at least this is what PREDATORS has shown us.

Off the top of my head, going over all of the films.. this is what I've gathered as far us "knowing" about the Predators from a cultural standpoint. As far as a biological standpoint.. we really don't know much. And this is just counting only the films.. I could've accounted for the expanded universe but from what I've gathered, people here on this forum don't count the EU.

[Lotus]

If they really need female predator to expand story,go for Machiko and her story i do more pleased to looking forward then boobies predator.

[RakaiThwei]

If they really need female predator to expand story,go for Machiko and her story i do more pleased to looking forward then boobies predator.

Shane has no reason to go for the expanded universe unless directed to do so by Fox. Shane especially has no reason to look at the old EU since that's discontinued and rebooted (again). The time and opportunity to put Machiko in a movie has long, long since passed by about a decade.. Maybe two decades.

[Russ]

Shane has no reason to go for the expanded universe unless directed to do so by Fox. Shane especially has no reason to look at the old EU since that's discontinued and rebooted (again). The time and opportunity to put Machiko in a movie has long, long since passed by about a decade.. Maybe two decades.

But this is a good thing -- it appears (and I stand to be corrected but the SiLs and Rakai's of this world) that there's a more cohesive approach at the moment? One of the issues you have with EUs is that they - eventually - become convoluted and contradictory.

And, to be honest, as Rakai points out, the films are a rich enough base - and we know that P1, P2 and indeed Ps are based in the same reality (let's not start the AU AvP debate here). Shane has said that this is a sequel, so I'm hoping for some references to what's gone on before. I think I was ranting if they don't have Arnie in a support role, the tough commando / assassin lady (because there will be a tough lady in the group) should be called Schaefer and mention that her family had "history with those things."

[RakaiThwei]

But this is a good thing -- it appears (and I stand to be corrected but the SiLs and Rakai's of this world) that there's a more cohesive approach at the moment? One of the issues you have with EUs is that they - eventually - become convoluted and contradictory.

I am honored that you lump me in with the likes of SiL but I don't feel worthy to be placed next to him. SiL can be intimidating at times, but you have to admit-- the guy knows his stuff when it comes to Alien and Predator things. I am more of a Predator aficionado more than Alien, so I don't know as much of the technical things as far as the realm of Alien is concerned. Where as with Predator and AvP, I'm more familiar with. But SiL knows a lot more than I do. I can concede that.

As far as the Expanded Universe goes.. More I look at the old stuff, the less I become worried about the new as I am becoming disillusioned on what is canon and what isn't as far as the EU is concerned. What I am saying is that EU material, as expansive and as fun as it is is nothing more than just glorified filler until more relevant material is concerned. The only franchise which I knew which treated it's filler material as genuine bonafide canon was Star Wars prior to Disney's reboot. So over the years I treated Alien-Predator EU similarly to how Star Wars fans treated their EU.

But I do agree with Russ, with EU stuff it eventually becomes so expansive that it's become convoluted and contradictory. And while the old EU had it's share of problems, the newer EU already has some showing.. case in point, the Derelict in River of Pain and it's placement of the pilot's room and egg chamber. There were other issues as well but I think they were minor enough to be overlooked.. though someone mentioned Amanda having children when the movies stated she didn't..

As far as EU is concerned.. it's just filler. Take that as you will.

And, to be honest, as Rakai points out, the films are a rich enough base - and we know that P1, P2 and indeed Ps are based in the same reality (let's not start the AU AvP debate here). Shane has said that this is a sequel, so I'm hoping for some references to what's gone on before. I think I was ranting if they don't have Arnie in a support role, the tough commando / assassin lady (because there will be a tough lady in the group) should be called Schaefer and mention that her family had "history with those things."

As far as Predator canon is concerned, the films have a very loose continuity which isn't as tied down as Alien continuity. If anything all five films (AvP's included to get my point across) should be looked at quite similar to the Godzilla continuity paths which are laid out. In fact some of the movies belong to more than one continuity. So.. I don't see a reason why the Predator movies shouldn't be looked at in the same manner as the Godzilla franchise. Or even the Halloween franchise. For whatever reason, some fans seem to have a real beef with that idea.

And Russ, as far as PREDATORS and it's placement in the movies are concerned... Well, I can say I don't agree that it is meant to be a sequel to Predator 2 but the first and only the first. Of course I'm only saying this based on Rodriguez's intent and his statement. Of course, Antal's statement doesn't corroborate with Roddy's statement. So.. I'm leaving it at that.

Also, we don't know if Shane's movie will be taking place either after Predator, Predator 2 or Predators. It could be a direct sequel to any of those movies. He might do a movie which is his version of Predator 2, he might do a movie which could be a definitive Predator 3. We don't know. Personally.. I hope his movie ignores PREDATORS.

[Russ]

Wow, big answer, thanks man. What I meant was that the P1, P2 and Ps reference each other, but they're unrelated in terms of character and all that. They're more like "sidequels" aren't they.

I think that Predators is the toughest to fit into any sort of cohesive flow, but it could be referenced ("We have a ship. It was brought back by a merc called Royce and an IDF sniper. They ditched in the Urals - ship was smashed." "What about Royce and the sniper." "Didn't make it.")

As for Ellen and Amanda Ripley... I read on here that Ellen's inclusion in the new novels were pretty much a mandate from Fox... I'm not sure that's a great idea myself but I guess its all about accessibility? Not everyone that will buy the book is a member of this forum and a die hard fan so they equate Aliens with Ripley so she had to be there. Sometimes I think these guys should credit the general populace with a bit more intelligence, but there we are.

I'm not really a gamer, so I've not played Isolation - but I recall there was some wailing and teeth gnashing at the inclusion of Amanda... which died down after the game came out to rave reviews. Still, her inclusion is "nice" but I wonder where they will go with her... we know that she got married and died in her 50s (I think?)... I guess that's what doesn't sit well with fans - we know how its going to end?

Now, if Isolation had had Alice Kane as its lead character, it'd be less cut and dried. But again, a Kane reference would like be too vague for most casual viewers... though, as I type, Kane's scion would have as much motivation for finding out what happened as Amanda.

[Son Of Kane]

I hope Shane Black's sequel is called Predator 3 honestly, then people can either treat Predators as a spin-off, ignore it entirely or equate it with Predator 2 as Rodriguez does.

[RakaiThwei]

I hope Shane Black's sequel is called Predator 3 honestly, then people can either treat Predators as a spin-off, ignore it entirely or equate it with Predator 2 as Rodriguez does.

You know... I wouldn't have a problem with that.

[Ratchetcomand]

The problem with Shane Black's sequel being Predator 3 is that Fox does view Predators as a sequel since I remember Fox was like "This is our first solo Predator film in 20 years!".

[Shinobi Wan Kenobi]

[RakaiThwei]

The problem with Shane Black's sequel being Predator 3 is that Fox does view Predators as a sequel since I remember Fox was like "This is our first solo Predator film in 20 years!".

Yeah but there are different statements coming from people who made PREDATORS. Rodriguez intended and said that the movie took place after the first, and willfully ignored the other sequels. Predator 2 included, which was why there was no mention of the events of Los Angeles 1997. Of course, you could say that the subtle references such as the different vision modes are a reference to Predator 2 but then the whole hologramic imagine of Earth could also be seen as a reference to AvP as well. And then there is Antal's statement which a lot of people cling onto..

PREDATORS has a very loose continuity in relationship to the other movies. But personally, I go by Rodriguez's word since he wrote the movie and produced it and likely had final word. Sure.. Antal's statement is there and people take it more than Roddy's (let's face it, Predator 2 was cool but not a lot of people liked AvP-- which if you ask me, is the reason why people consider PREDATORS as Predator 3 because they want to keep P2. At least that's how I see it from a fandom perspective).

As for AvP-- well.. It was made in mind to act as a sequel to Predator 2 but it could be considered a spin-off or rather if you will, an alternate side continuity. Kind of like how Halloween has two different continuities, or better yet, look at the Godzilla franchise. I mean so far Fox hasn't exactly commented on the canonicity of things. However.. their proactive approach to things regarding the EU and Prometheus leaves a lot of things to discussion.

But as for the AvP of the franchise triangle.. aside from an EU standpoint, it's looking like AvP is left in the dark. Whatever Shane's ideas are, I just hope he doesn't borrow elements from Rodriguez's movie. I didn't like Rodriguez's movie for a variety of reasons, and that movie sort of started to push me away as a fan. Whatever Shane's ideas are, I just hope that they aren't something which will leave me further disappointed and me wanting to leave the franchise and fandom with a bitter taste.

What scares me about not knowing things is if Shane is going to show more of Predator culture. I think that aspect was shown well enough in the last few films. AVP included. But if he wants to show more, I just hope he doesn't add something stupid like Litvak and Finch did for Rodriguez's movie.

But I agree with Son of Kane, and I wouldn't mind if Shane's movie is labeled Predator 3.

[Russ]

I think he's pretty much said it's P3 - not a reboot, sidequel or retcon.

tmjhur on the big Blomkamp thread said that he's excited by what's happening at Fox at the moment and that something big is cooking. I came to this thread thinking about that and I think tmjhur has a point.

Tossing out the old EU, New novels, new comics, new game, new word on "Paradise", that big book that SM worked on, this movie with Shane. That's a lot of movement on a "dead" franchise.

Look, whatever happens with Shane's movie, it will follow the BS2 (the Blake Snyder Beat Sheet). Virtually all Hollywood movies follow this template, but I think that the two guys who wrote "Herbie: Fully Loaded" put it best when they say "Put a a guy in a tree. Throw rocks at him. Get him out of the tree." (And the guys who wrote "Herbie: Fully Loaded have written the best "how to" screen writing guide ever. They don't care that they write shit, only that they get paid shitloads. It's an amazing and funny book.).

I digress - I very much doubt if Predator 3 will be risk-taking film - like, we often read on here "I want a film in Yatjua language from the Predators point of view" - that won't happen. I will take a forfeit on that too - If it does, I'll go get a a back, sack and crack wax.

If tmjhur is right (or even partly right) Shane's movie may function in a wider universe that we don't even know is being built. The shared universe stuff is hot right now -- Disney and WB are doing it with Marvel and DC. Then again, Fox does have Star Wars! But that's pitching at a whole other audience.

I've always thought that where Star Wars went wrong with the last three was pitching them at kids. These new ones will have to be kid friendly now, I guess, but Lucas missed a trick with the prequels and they should have been marketed at the 30somethings who pay big bucks on merchandise and will keep buying recuts for ever. Most (not all) kids are pretty transient with their crazes because there's so much choice now - this week its Star Wars, next week The Avengers, then we have Lord of the Rings... Oh look it's Superman. In the 70s and 80s we had dick in the way of TV and movies compared to now. But SWVII, that "sell it to the grown ups" ship has sailed.

Aliens and Predator, however, don't suffer from that need to appease younger viewers. I think AvP succeeded in that it probably got a lot of younger people into the franchise (those teens will be 20somethings now), but even the most ardent AvP hater couldn't say that the movie was pitched and made with kids in mind.

So maybe - just maybe - tmjhur is on the right lines and we could be getting a whole load of new stuff from Fox for us gnarly grown ups. Maybe someone there has realised that the older folks are the ones with the disposable incomes who will keep paying for stuff over and over again *lol*.

Maybe there's life in the old alien and predator dogs yet.

But as I say above, I really think that P3 will be a safe film, but I wonder if it will serve to set something bigger up. That seems to be the trend at the moment anyway - "I have a franchise and I'm gonna use it."