Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

[Xenomrph]

And everyone laughed at me when i was throwing Predator stuff into Prometheus.

Personally, I hate the fact that they're counting PREDATORS with this yet despite what Rodriguez and Scott say concerning their movies having nothing to do with Predator 2 (Antal's word doesn't count!) and AvP, they're tying it into AvP anyway yet they're not counting the movies.

The only good thing I see about this is that it's kind of it's own separate thing based on what the interview and what Sebela said on his Tumblr anyway.

-Rakai'Thwei

The thing is "not counting" doesn't necessarily mean anything - the fictional universe is wide enough that stories can happen without referencing every single other story, and just because something isn't referenced doesn't mean it didn't happen independent of it anyway. That's how the A/P/AvP EU has been for years anyway - the vast majority of the stories happen independent of each other, and it's uncommon (and a fun treat, in my opinion) when they do reference each other.

'Predators' happened, and it may not reference the events of 'AvP' directly, but that doesn't mean 'AvP' "didn't happen" (not to mention 'Predators' *does* reference 'AvP' in other, less direct ways).
The word of the filmmakers doesn't really mean a whole lot in my book - it's an interesting footnote and I enjoy hearing it, but it's not any kind of binding gospel truth. The filmmakers say a lot of things, often contradictory things, because contributing to a multimedia franchise is a collaborative effort that spans dozens of people with their own contributions and viewpoints and ideas, so you're bound to end up with stuff that doesn't mesh.

[RakaiThwei]

The word of the filmmakers doesn't really mean a whole lot in my book - it's an interesting footnote and I enjoy hearing it, but it's not any kind of binding gospel truth.

And yet Fox considers everything under the sun to be canon with the franchises, or so I have been told by various members on this very forum. You being one of them. The other being SM.

Which brings me up to my next point.. which you have pointed out.

The filmmakers say a lot of things, often contradictory things, because contributing to a multimedia franchise is a collaborative effort that spans dozens of people with their own contributions and viewpoints and ideas, so you're bound to end up with stuff that doesn't mesh.

You pretty much said it. We have been given things which don't already mesh and simply just clash. Tying in Weyland Industries from AvP and Weyland Corp from Prometheus simply cannot work, not unless someone is willing to write and fill in the plothole or even make a good and reasonable fact for the two timelines to reconcile. Unless you have made something of a Power Point presentation, I simply don't accept the idea that everything under the sun regarding A/P/AvP is in continuity with each other. Canon is already a mess.

That's why I refer to the Word of God trope. It helps keeps things organized and makes sense of things. But I also acknowledge that Fox hasn't jettisoned the AvP films out of canon.

Regarding the EU, I can agree with you that while as far as the EU from 1988 to 2009 may not reference each other doesn't meant that they aren't isolated events taking place. But some things just clash... The Hish Mythos for example. And of course the original intended ALIENS sequel comics which featured Hicks and Newt-- which were later retconned and rewritten to Wilkes and Billy. And as far as I'm aware, that retcon and Aliens: Colonial Marines were the only retcons to ever happen in the A/P/AvP franchise that actually involved re-writing to make things fit.

If you know of any retcons, please let me know! I'm sincerely willing to be enlightened.

The word of the filmmakers doesn't really mean a whole lot in my book

You said it. Your book.

And that is where I disagree with you.

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

The other being SM.

Hang on - I've never said that.  I've only repeated what people like Xenomrph claim.  Though I've yet to hear anyone from Fox say that everything is canon.  Or indeed anyone from Fox say anything is canon.  It's always third parties making the claim, and third parties are constantly producing conflicting material.

And as far as I'm aware, that retcon and Aliens: Colonial Marines were the only retcons to ever happen in the A/P/AvP franchise that actually involved re-writing to make things fit.

A:CM changed the source material and caused continuity problems, rather than correcting existing problems.  And the half arsed Wilks/ Billie thing got rendered null and void by Alien Resurrection.

[RakaiThwei]

Hang on - I've never said that.  I've only repeated what people like Xenomrph claim.  Though I've yet to hear anyone from Fox say that everything is canon.  Or indeed anyone from Fox say anything is canon.  It's always third parties making the claim, and third parties are constantly producing conflicting material.

You never said that but were quoting what Xenomrph said? My mistake then.

As for the third party mention, are you referring to companies like Rebellion, Monolith, Dark Horse, NECA, etc?

A:CM changed the source material and caused continuity problems, rather than correcting existing problems.  And the half arsed Wilks/ Billie thing got rendered null and void by Alien Resurrection.

I know that there were plenty of continuity issues with Aliens: Colonial Marines, especially with the handwaved retconned Hicks death which.. they tried to add more stuff to with Stasis Interrupted, but after watching some gameplay videos of that particular DLC, it just adds even further questions than answers and more problems.

As for Wilks and Billie... That was straight up jettisoned by Resurrection? It has been years since I've read Earth Hive and Nightmare Aslyum (which I'm stuck on and have been stuck on since my Junior year of high school of 2005) and.. I can't remember what conflicted with Resurrection. And well.. I kind of refuse to watch Resurrection now, so.. clear that up for me?

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

As for the third party mention, are you referring to companies like Rebellion, Monolith, Dark Horse, NECA, etc?

Yep.

As for Wilks and Billie... That was straight up jettisoned by Resurrection? It has been years since I've read Earth Hive and Nightmare Aslyum (which I'm stuck on and have been stuck on since my Junior year of high school of 2005) and.. I can't remember what conflicted with Resurrection. And well.. I kind of refuse to watch Resurrection now, so.. clear that up for me?

Wilk/ Billie (and Hicks/ Newt) is set around the Aliens over-running the Earth 10 years after the second film - dialogue in Resurrection tells us there's been no contact with the Alien since Ripley died.  Ergo, Aliens never invaded - nor was there Xeno-Zip, the Innominata, the "Father", android Aliens, etc. etc.

Of course someone will chime in shortly saying Resurrection can be re-interpreted without ever adequately explaining how, but there you go.

Every story that has widespread knowledge of the Alien set after Alien3 makes Ripleys ultimate sacrifice utterly worthless.  The only story that does respect the sacrifice is, ironically enough, Alien Resurrection.  It shows her sacrifice was so successful that the only way they could obtain a specimen was by cloning the woman responsible for effectively 'wiping them out'.

That said, as i indicated earlier, I expect they'll ignore those plot points with these new series, as they do create some fairly big restrictions on where you can go.

[RakaiThwei]

That said, as i indicated earlier, I expect they'll ignore those plot points with these new series, as they do create some fairly big restrictions on where you can go.

I agree with this, and based on what was said in the article and what Sebela said on his Tumblr, they'll be ignoring the older publications to a large degree in order to have a clean slate and if they do cover some elements which were covered in the old expanded universe, it's likely an accident and coincidental.

That said.. I am interested in seeing the connections to what the Engineers have with the Predators. While AvP-R (as much as everyone hates that movie) showed that there was an Engineer helmet in the trophy room, we know that there is some sort of hunter-prey relationship between the two. Personally, I think that's all we need to know.

I just hope that they don't say that Engineers also created the Predators too... I really hope not.

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

I agree with this, and based on what was said in the article and what Sebela said on his Tumblr, they'll be ignoring the older publications to a large degree in order to have a clean slate and if they do cover some elements which were covered in the old expanded universe, it's likely an accident and coincidental.

Big difference with ignoring older publications and ignoring the films though.

[RakaiThwei]

Big difference with ignoring older publications and ignoring the films though.

That much is true, but they did say that they were ignoring the AvP movies and the previous comic publications. However they did say that they were not rendering them moot but they weren't connecting them either.

-Rakai'Thwei

[predxeno]

I hope the reason they're doing that is because it simply isn't convenient to fit in the story rather than just caving in to fan opinion.

[SM]

Why?  Fans are ones who are going to buying the things.  Only makes sense to pay attention to their opinion.  There's yet to be an AvP comic linked to either film.  Why tie a comic directly to a crap film that the majority of viewers didn't like?

Could even extend to the second two Alien films.

[RakaiThwei]

I hope the reason they're doing that is because it simply isn't convenient to fit in the story rather than just caving in to fan opinion.

Based on the opinions of the writers, sadly that is what it sounds like. Read in between the lines, it's practically "In their opinion" to what's canon and what isn't to "their" world that they're building. Literally, that's what they said.

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

No different the way it's always been then.

[predxeno]

Why?  Fans are ones who are going to buying the things.  Only makes sense to pay attention to their opinion.  There's yet to be an AvP comic linked to either film.  Why tie a comic directly to a crap film that the majority of viewers didn't like?

Could even extend to the second two Alien films.

AVPR was one of the products of such thinking (answering to the fans' wants exclusively); it traded plot for gore (something many fans were upset that the 1st film lacked).  Also, AVP: Thrill of the Hunt and AVP: Civilized Beasts were AVP comics connected to the movies.

[SM]

They weren't directly tied to the films.

They didn't continue the adventures of Lex or the Gunnison survivors.

AVPR was one of the products of such thinking (answering to the fans' wants exclusively); it traded plot for gore (something many fans were upset that the 1st film lacked).

AvP was the product of such thinking.  Comics were popular - so make a movie.  And AvP DID lack gore.  It's a staple.  However AvP:Poo didn't trade plot for gore - the basic plot wouldn't been the same whether it had lots of blood or not.  It was just full of dull and boring characters in Hicksville USA.

If they'd really answered the fans wants it would've had marines and been set in space.

[Xenomrph]

Tying in Weyland Industries from AvP and Weyland Corp from Prometheus simply cannot work, not unless someone is willing to write and fill in the plothole or even make a good and reasonable fact for the two timelines to reconcile.

You're welcome to that opinion - there have been several threads that reconciled the Weyland thing, so if you don't like the explanations posted, that's your opinion.

That's why I refer to the Word of God trope. It helps keeps things organized and makes sense of things.

The problem is the "word of god" idea has numerous "gods" stating their own opinions, and they don't exactly line up. You said it yourself - Antal considered 'Predator 2' to be a part of 'Predators', but Robert Rodriguez didn't.

If I'm going to defer to any "god" in this scenario, it'll be the ones who own the franchise, the ones who actually get to make the decisions regarding it, completely independent of what any other contributor has to say on the matter, and that's FOX. This is the same FOX who, after Robert Rodriguez said he was discarding the AvP films and everything AvP, specifically stepped in with the 'Predators' blu-ray and dropped in "Yautja" references, and designed the NECA toy packaging in-house complete with AvP and EU references.

I've only repeated what people like Xenomrph claim.  Though I've yet to hear anyone from Fox say that everything is canon.  Or indeed anyone from Fox say anything is canon.  It's always third parties making the claim, and third parties are constantly producing conflicting material.

Well except for the Alien Quadrilogy/Alien Anthology disc supplementals specifically saying that the EU and whatnot is "part of the universe" (I can get a specific quote, but you've already seen it before) and having EU-themed special features such as the "Weyland-Yutani Archive" or the pop-up trivia tracks that reference the EU liberally, that is.
FOX doesn't have to come down from on high and make a signed and notarized letter addressed directly to the fans - the fact that they're saying these things to their licensees doesn't change the fact that they said them at all.

Of course someone will chime in shortly saying Resurrection can be re-interpreted without ever adequately explaining how, but there you go.

It's been adequately explained ad-infinitum for years, if you choose not to accept it then that's okay.

Why?  Fans are ones who are going to buying the things.  Only makes sense to pay attention to their opinion.

Well that's the thing - it really doesn't. By and large the people who are going to post on a forum like this one are the kinds of people who will buy the stuff regardless of quality. How many of the DH Press 'Aliens' novels did you buy sight-unseen? How many did you like? What about 'Aliens: More Than Human' (or whatever it was called) or the two hardbacks that came out recently, or AvP:TWW?
This article talks about the phenomenon, and although the article focuses on professional wrestling, it still applies to pretty much any kind of "fandom".

Ideally, it's not the fans who are the target audience, because the fans by and large will buy it anyway, regardless of quality. Ideally they should be trying to attract new readers using quality storytelling and art. Whether they pull that off remains to be seen.

There's yet to be an AvP comic linked to either film.  Why tie a comic directly to a crap film that the majority of viewers didn't like?

Could even extend to the second two Alien films.

To be fair AvP: Thrill of the Hunt/Civilized Beasts directly tied into AvP, but more of in the general "Predators have hunting rituals and temples, where they hunt Aliens" idea, similar to how the AvP2010 videogame handled it. It didn't tie into the characters, but it definitely tied into the ideas introduced in 'AvP'.
And while it wasn't a comic book, 'Aliens: Original Sin' was still handled by Dark Horse and was a direct sequel to Resurrection.

I hope the reason they're doing that is because it simply isn't convenient to fit in the story rather than just caving in to fan opinion.

Based on the opinions of the writers, sadly that is what it sounds like. Read in between the lines, it's practically "In their opinion" to what's canon and what isn't to "their" world that they're building. Literally, that's what they said.

-Rakai'Thwei

To be fair it's not a bad way to handle it - there's plenty of room in the galaxy for new and interesting stories, and like SM said it's pretty much par for the course. If we get lucky maybe some other writer will drop a reference to older comics and stuff just because the long-time fans will get a kick out of it, just like a couple of the DHPress books did.