Aliens: Bug Hunt - Aliens Anthology Announced!

[LordCassusSnow]

Xenomrph you make some great points! Done your research have ya? I definitely need to compare books so i can have myself a laugh

[Xenomrph]

Xenomrph you make some great points! Done your research have ya? I definitely need to compare books so i can have myself a laugh

It's been a known issue pretty much since the USCM Tech Manual came out and shined a big honking spotlight on how little sense Lambert's number makes.

For some more fun science facts, consider this:
- if LV-426 is 1200km in diameter, that makes it a little over half the size of Pluto, and about the third the size of Earth's moon. That's tiny.
- it wouldn't have enough mass to hold an atmosphere (terraformed or otherwise), and the curvature of the horizon would be visible to the naked eye
- in order to have a gravity of 86% that of Earth and still be 1200km, it would need to be entirely made of a material so dense that it isn't on the periodic table

That's why the Tech Manual created the number 12,201km, because it just happens to be 86% the size of Earth. It helps that the gas giant it's orbiting is listed as being 10 times the size of Jupiter, so it having a moon 10 times the size of a Jovian moon makes sense.

[SM]

The fictional source material says otherwise.

[Xenomrph]

And the fictional source material is wrong for reasons demonstrated, and we can work around it since it's fiction.
The fictional source material also corroborates the 12,000 number based on the exterior shots of LV-426 in both movies and the fact that the planet has an atmosphere.

[SM]

If you like.

The source material isn't likely to change however.

[Xenomrph]

If you like.

The source material isn't likely to change however.

It doesn't need to, the source material supports the 12,000 number too.

[Local Trouble]

If you like.

The source material isn't likely to change however.

It doesn't need to, the source material supports the 12,000 number too.

How so?  Wasn't its size and gravity specified in the original movie?

[Xenomrph]

If you like.

The source material isn't likely to change however.

It doesn't need to, the source material supports the 12,000 number too.

How so?  Wasn't its size and gravity told to us in the original movie?

In the director's cut, but it's size as described by Lambert doesn't jive with the size we see when they're walking around on the planet in 'Alien' or 'Aliens', or the fact that it has an atmosphere in both movies. An object 1200km in diameter wouldn't have enough mass to have walkable gravity as we see in both movies, or be able to retain an atmosphere as seen in both movies. The curvature of the horizon would also be visible to the naked eye if it were that small, and it isn't.

Shit, if Weyland Yutani could somehow terraform stuff that small, they'd be better off terraforming nearly every moon in the Solar System first, it would be more cost effective.

[Local Trouble]

Doesn't the stated gravity of the planetoid indicate that it's massive enough to sustain an atmosphere?  Do we even get a good view of the horizon that isn't obscured by the rocky terrain?

Also, the company presumably terraformed LV-426 for its mineral wealth.  However, it makes no sense to even bother with mining a planet so far away unless it has some sort of unobtanium that can't be found closer to Earth.

[Xenomrph]

The problem with that is that if it's got the gravity as stated (and it clearly does, we see people walk on it) and be massive enough to retain a breathable atmosphere, it would need to be incredibly dense. As in, the entire planet would need to be made of something like 5 times denser than the densest element on the periodic table (I did the math years ago, I could recompute it if you're interested), denser than a neutron star if I remember right. At 1200km and a realistic density, it would need to orbit at an extreme distance from the gas giant (as in, further than shown in both movies) or it would fall right into the gravity well.
Like the only way the 1200km number even remotely makes sense is if the entire planet is an Engineer construct. I'm not saying that's impossible, just that it's the kind of thing that would immediately call attention to itself. LV-426 would be affecting the gas giant's orbit nearly as much as Zeta II Reticuli does.

And the curvature of the horizon would be visible even despite the rocky terrain. 1200km is really tiny.

[Local Trouble]

The problem with that is that if it's got the gravity as stated (and it clearly does, we see people walk on it) and be massive enough to retain a breathable atmosphere, it would need to be incredibly dense.

So the planet is composed of an ultra-dense mineral not found in our solar system.  I can live with that.  It even explains why the company financed a mining colony there.

And the curvature of the horizon would be visible even despite the rocky terrain. 1200km is really tiny.

What if the colony was in a crater or on a plateau?  Shirley, there are ways of making it all fit.

By all means, do the math.  Sooner or later, you're going to have to concede "hey, it was the 70s."

[Xenomrph]

So the planet is composed of an ultra-dense mineral not found in our solar system.  I can live with that.  It even explains why the company financed a mining colony there.

The problem is if it's as dense as it needs to be, not only can you not mine it, but even if you could, the half-life of the element would be in the microseconds before it decays into nothing. There's an upper limit to the density of elements on the periodic table, and as you start getting towards the ends of the table, you get into elements that can only be created in a lab and don't exist for more than fractions of a second.

Shirley there was ways of making it all fit.

There sure is: Lambert mis-spoke because she's a human being who can make mistakes, and the planet is actually 12,000km, not 1200km. We have no reason to take Lambert's word as gospel truth just because she said it, especially when it makes no sense. If that were the case, then I guess Gediman was correct when he said "Fiori 16". I mean the words left his mouth so they must be true, right?

What if the colony was in a crater or on a plateau?

A plateau would show the horizon, and we see in the movie that they're not inside a crater. If it were as dense as it needs to be, it wouldn't have impact craters (it would be impossible for them to form), and if it were a realistic density but still 1200km, then an impact strong enough to make a crater big enough for the colony would utterly devastate the planet.

Like, the science and common sense just isn't there, and that's why the Tech Manual moved the decimal place one spot to the right and fixed every problem effortlessly. You have to jump through so many hoops to justify the 1200km number just because a fallible, unqualified character spoke the words, when the really obvious solution is right there in front of you, and supported by the movies no less.

By all means, do the math.  Sooner or later, you're going to have to concede "hey, it was the 70s."

'Alien' is chock full of garbage science and technobabble gobbledygook. Dallas says the Alien's blood is "some kind of molecular acid", as if that's a profound observation (hint: all acids are molecular acid. It's like saying "the blood is made of a wet liquid").
That doesn't mean we need to blindly accept it, especially when there's really easy, obvious explanations. After all, it's fiction.

[Local Trouble]

What about Ash?  Does he make mistakes?

[426Buddy]

What about Ash?  Does he make mistakes?

Obviously he does, magazines make terrible murder weapons 

[Perfect-Organism]

Gasp... LV-426 is made of... wait for it... Trimonite!