Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

[RakaiThwei]

My main beef with "Predators" stem mostly from how it devolves into a rehash of the first movie. The idea of preserve planets is fine with me, especially since the movie only shows BSP using them. They don't follow the same code of honor that the regular Predators do, so it kind of fits that they would think nothing of dumping prey into unfamiliar environs and picking them off. They're more poachers than honorable hunters.

Quite frankly, I can see the predator tribes going to war over that very reason.  The predators seem like a species entrenched in tradition and honor, that to deviate from that (like putting prey on a game reserve to make hunt easier) would be blasphemous- thus starting a war.  Personally, they should be in the comics, if nothing else to serve as antagonists for both the humans and original predators.

Kind of a response to both there..

In regards to the BSP's using the Preserve Planet, that was something which needed to be answered in PREDATORS which we sort of never really got aside from what answers that loony Nolan answered-- which only answered to why they use the preserve planet. To change their weaponry and their tactics. However if the script is to be considered, then they also genetically alter themselves as well but I doubt that bit from the script should be considered as it was revealed that they were a cousin race or something. As to WHO actually hunts on the Preserve Planet-- well that's just straight up confusing because unless you count the PREDATORS prequel comic, as well as the sequel comic-- it turns out that both the original species and the BSPs are using the planet and are at war with each other for territorial reasons. However a lot of material out there contradicts that idea, and even Rodriguez's own words suggesting that the Preserve Planet maybe really a prison planet where the original species dump their outcast on, also contradicts the idea from what the PREDATORS comic idea offers. And the Crucified Predator motion comic kind of renders the comics somewhat moot in a way.

As someone who harbors negative feelings towards PREDATORS and the inclusion of the Black Super Predators, I am honestly glad that they are not in the comic. You already have the Engineers as the main antagonist here for the reboot comic in this new continuity. Having the BSPs would just make things a bit more erratic. If you have too many antagonists, then things just get a bit confusing and not necessarily as focused. And I would think these new comics have the Engineers as the bag guys.

Also, having the idea of a Bad Blood clan fighting against Human and Predators was already done in Three World War. Why do it again for the sake of BSPs being in there? Fan appeal? Sounds like it.

I should have guessed this would happen after the DH AVP writer revealed that he was too much of a coward to include references to the AVP movies, a decision that was based solely on what fans would think.  It'd be all right if the story just didn't have room for references to the AVP movies but by going out of the way to eliminating them altogether just because it's "what the fans want" is by far one of the most cowardly decisions one can make, and a rather stupid one too. 

When did Christopher Sebela mention that he was too much of a coward to include references of the AvP movies? You do know that he and the other writing teams are also ignoring the old continuity of the expanded universe as well right and not even going out of their way to link them to the old comics, right? So really, it's not just the AvP movies they are ignoring but the whole twenty five years of lore which was already established. Shit, Sebela even admitted that the old comics and novels weren't even discussed or brought into consideration at the writer's table meeting. And while they aren't referencing or even connecting this story with the past twenty five years of material, they aren't rendering the old continuity moot or erasing it from canon. So if you want to follow the old storylines, go ahead because they are still valid. If you want to follow the new continuity, by all means.

Also, I kind of agree with you that it does feel like that they decided to ignore the AvP movies and the previous storylines in the EU out of fan request but I don't think that is the case. We do know that the writers have said that they consider the original four Alien movies, and the first two Predator movies, as well as PREDATORS as gospel... and while they did say that the AvP movies had some ideas, they were a self contained world which they didn't want to base this new continuity off of and they didn't want to use the old comics as inspiration. If they do touch up on anything that the old comics did, chances are it will be coincidental and nothing more.

And at the risk of being bludgeoned by the ban hammer, if you want to discuss the placement where these new comics fit in.. Well, go ahead and do so but get ready to incur the wrath of an admin. Besides, we already had that conversation and I'm not willing to have it again because no one really got anywhere.

-Rakai'Thwei

[predxeno]

When did Christopher Sebela mention that he was too much of a coward to include references of the AvP movies?

Also, I kind of agree with you that it does feel like that they decided to ignore the AvP movies and the previous storylines in the EU out of fan request but I don't think that is the case. We do know that the writers have said that they consider the original four Alien movies, and the first two Predator movies, as well as PREDATORS as gospel... and while they did say that the AvP movies had some ideas, they were a self contained world which they didn't want to base this new continuity off of and they didn't want to use the old comics as inspiration. If they do touch up on anything that the old comics did, chances are it will be coincidental and nothing more.

I'm just sticking with the solo movies, because I think they build up an interesting mythology of their own that fits in well with the world we're building. I think the AvP movies have a lot of interesting things going on, but they seem to exist in their own little bubble, one that's very far away from ours, and, personally, I want to keep myself as free of all past AvP encounters, to start from a clean slate and build my own take on this mythical face-off

http://io9.com/exclusive-details-on-the-comic-relaunch-of-alien-preda-1443548904

There is no way this bubble ever existed without fan input; before Prometheus came out, tons of people were bashing the AVP films saying that they were no longer canon.

You do know that he and the other writing teams are also ignoring the old continuity of the expanded universe as well right and not even going out of their way to link them to the old comics, right? So really, it's not just the AvP movies they are ignoring but the whole twenty five years of lore which was already established. Shit, Sebela even admitted that the old comics and novels weren't even discussed or brought into consideration at the writer's table meeting. And while they aren't referencing or even connecting this story with the past twenty five years of material, they aren't rendering the old continuity moot or erasing it from canon.

Ignoring the EU is a completely different story, it's understandable that they wouldn't want to get caught up in the giant spiderweb of a continuity that is our franchise's mythology, but to ignore the movies themselves is much more blatant and noticeable.

And at the risk of being bludgeoned by the ban hammer, if you want to discuss the placement where these new comics fit in.. Well, go ahead and do so but get ready to incur the wrath of an admin. Besides, we already had that conversation and I'm not willing to have it again because no one really got anywhere.

I'm not dragging that old cat out of the bag again; I'm merely venting my frustration regarding the writer's choice preferences to listen to fan opinion rather than following their own stories and making up their own.

[RakaiThwei]

I'm just sticking with the solo movies, because I think they build up an interesting mythology of their own that fits in well with the world we're building. I think the AvP movies have a lot of interesting things going on, but they seem to exist in their own little bubble, one that's very far away from ours, and, personally, I want to keep myself as free of all past AvP encounters, to start from a clean slate and build my own take on this mythical face-off

http://io9.com/exclusive-details-on-the-comic-relaunch-of-alien-preda-1443548904

There is no way this bubble ever existed without fan input; before Prometheus came out, tons of people were bashing the AVP films saying that they were no longer canon.

Yeah, I am well aware of that quote there and all but I don't really read it as: "I'm afraid of allowing the AvP mythology into this new one which we are creating because fans didn't like the movies and therefore, we feel obligated not to include the movies." That would be just ridiculous thinking on the writer's part, but not necessarily impossible. That kind of thinking has happened before in our franchises-- which ultimately lead to the creation of the PREDATORS and Prometheus films, both films which have drawn just as much flack as the AvP films, even if they were better received. I know a lot of people dislike Predators, and I know a lot of people dislike Prometheus. Not everyone is going to be happy with whatever film or creative decision in any media.

Yeah, I know a lot of people were bashing the AvP films.. And even though they got the proverbial band aid on the wound with the release of PREDATORS and Prometheus-- they are still bashing the AvP films, and won't let it ago much to my chagrin. But there is nothing really suggested by Fox mentioning that they are not canon anymore.

But we're not going to talk about canon.

Ignoring the EU is a completely different story, it's understandable that they wouldn't want to get caught up in the giant spiderweb of a continuity that is our franchise's mythology, but to ignore the movies themselves is much more blatant and noticeable.

This isn't the first time that the franchise has been rebooted in a sense. The Predator EU has been rebooted before when the Hish mythos was introduced when Forever Midnight was published. And that rebooted mythology quickly fizzled and wasn't really so much as heard from again as Fox went back to the Yautja mythos. And yeah, it definitely is easier to ignore EU material because expanded universe is pretty much that.. expanded material. Supplemental material. Take or it leave it material.

But to ignore primary source material... And yes, that's what AvP is considering that the crossovers were a film medium which drew elements from the previous movies.. It is source material. But for ANY franchise's EU to ignore primary source material.. Yeah, it's going to be blatant and noticeable. I myself got frustrated upon learning that they weren't going to be using ideas from the AVP movies, which in turn used ideas from the already established EU.

I'm not dragging that old cat out of the bag again; I'm merely venting my frustration regarding the writer's choice preferences to listen to fan opinion rather than following their own stories and making up their own.

I completely understand on how you feel regarding that issue man. But from how I see things, I would think that the BSPs are actually something which a lot of people in the fandom like.. even if I think the idea was redundant, unnecessary and poorly executed. Had the Black Super Predators been included, I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot and I would be just as frustrated as well, if not maybe more so. But I don't think the decision to leave the Super Predators out was fan opinion decided. Looking at the interviews, and my own inquiry to Sebela... Doesn't seem to suggest that the decision was fan opinion based.

[SM]

That kind of thinking has happened before in our franchises-- which ultimately lead to the creation of the PREDATORS and Prometheus films, both films which have drawn just as much flack as the AvP films, even if they were better received.

Neither film received anywhere near as much flak as the AvP flicks.  As you more or less admit.

[Powerloader]

Prometheus/Predators deserved way more flak than the AVP movies. 

In fact, AVP is a minor classic right now.  It created a whole sub-genre of fangirls lusting after predators.  That is what I call achievement. 

[Xenomrph]

I'll just have to wait for the BSP to be slaughtered in some other media... I have played through AvP Evolution and I like the story.

Don't you run around killing BSPs as a "classic" predator in Evolution?

Yes.

[Corporal Hicks]

This isn't the first time that the franchise has been rebooted in a sense. The Predator EU has been rebooted before when the Hish mythos was introduced when Forever Midnight was published. And that rebooted mythology quickly fizzled and wasn't really so much as heard from again as Fox went back to the Yautja mythos.

They didn't really go back to it. You had Steve Perry use "ooman" once in Turnabout but that was it.

I'm glad they're rebooting the EU. It's such a convoluted mess and it allows them to make theirs tidier - same as this new novel trilogy too.

[Xenomrph]

For what it's worth, FOX has referred to the "Yautja" concept pretty consistently for the past few years.

[RakaiThwei]

I'm glad they're rebooting the EU. It's such a convoluted mess and it allows them to make theirs tidier - same as this new novel trilogy too.

I would actually go as far to say that they're not really rebooting the EU, or rather at least the comics anyway. Sebela has even told me that he and the writers he is working with aren't even rebooting anything. I actually have the quote of him mentioning that from him on his Tumblr.

TheLastRaigeki Asked: I have a question regarding the new Alien-Predator universe which Dark Horse is creating. Is this a whole separate and new universe from the already established twenty five years of lore which was started from the late 1980s to 2009 or does this completely override the old lore?

Sebela: The old Dark Horse comics series about Aliens, Predators and Aliens fighting Predators never came up in the writer's room as we're working off a different angle of the universe, one that may touch on some of the stuff those old books did, but only by accident. But we're not declaring all that stuff moot or rebooting it or anything, it's just two different neighborhoods in a pretty big city.

Source: http://thoughtpeach.tumblr.com/post/63748483508/i-have-a-question-regarding-the-new-alien-predator

So if we take into account Sebela's word and consider the fact that he has worked with the other writers, it holds some considerable amount of weight to that statement. They're not rendering the old EU moot, they're not even rebooting it. More and more, this sounds like this story might be just a different story. A stand-alone story if you will.

And I don't think the EU would be less of a convoluted mess as it already. You have different mediums featuring the Alien and Predator franchises which will inevitably clash with previously established material anyway. With future games, novels, comics probably on the way, it's still not going to mesh well enough like Star Wars' EU.

For what it's worth, FOX has referred to the "Yautja" concept pretty consistently for the past few years.

And the word has found it's way into Blu-Ray features, specifically the Weyland-Yutani archives in AvP-R.

-Rakai'Thwei

[happypred]

And the word has found it's way into Blu-Ray features, specifically the Weyland-Yutani archives in AvP-R.

Special feature on the DVD?

[RakaiThwei]

Special feature on the DVD?

No, the AvP-R Blu-Ray. It's in the Weyland-Yutani archives.

A feature which the DVDs really don't have.

-Rakai'Thwei

[PRJ_since1990]

Special feature on the DVD?

No, the AvP-R Blu-Ray. It's in the Weyland-Yutani archives.

A feature which the DVDs really don't have.

-Rakai'Thwei

It was also used in the Predators BR specials as a title... no one actually said it. However, from the way it was used, and I don't remember exactly, but it sounded like RR was using it to describe the BSP's as well as the classic Predator into the same species... If anything, they should be the same genus, maybe, but they're clearly not the same creature.

[RakaiThwei]

It was also used in the Predators BR specials as a title... no one actually said it. However, from the way it was used, and I don't remember exactly, but it sounded like RR was using it to describe the BSP's as well as the classic Predator into the same species... If anything, they should be the same genus, maybe, but they're clearly not the same creature.

I don't think that the BSPs are Yautja, and Rodriguez even admitted somewhere that he didn't even look at the Expanded Universe and wasn't even really going to use it as inspiration for anything in his movie whatsoever. So it's not really Robert Rodriguez really using the word, but rather Fox instead.

Having said that, I think that the Yautja and the Black Super Predators are rather a different branch from each other. Think something along the lines of Vulcans and Romulans. Both probably have a common ancestor but evolved differently due to being on different worlds. Even their culture is different. You could argue that the Super Predators are Hish but there isn't much to support that, if any evidence at all whatsoever. But I do think it's possible that they are descended from a common ancestor.

This is assuming of course you don't count the idea which the June 2009 draft script presented with the idea that the BSPs genetically tamper themselves with the DNA of their prey, which explains why they look and behave differently from the original species. But a lot of expanded universe material and even the dialogue in the film kind of throws that idea out.

All of which I explained is under the assuming that PREDATORS and AvP is set in the same universe. But I don't think that they are and that's for perhaps another but restricted discussion.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Xenomrph]

For what it's worth, the FOX-designed packaging for the 'Predators' figures that NECA did name-drops "xenomorphs" pretty liberally, and if I remember right it refers to the Super Predators as "Yautja".

I mean technically that's not incorrect, if you want to take the same approach that a chihuahua and a mastiff are both "dogs", even though they're obviously not the same animal.

[RakaiThwei]

For what it's worth, the FOX-designed packaging for the 'Predators' figures that NECA did name-drops "xenomorphs" pretty liberally, and if I remember right it refers to the Super Predators as "Yautja".

That might be true but well... the NECA backstories are for you know... TOYS. And some of these toys are even based off the rather bizarre and outlandish Kenner toyline, and three of these very toys happen to be derived from fanon-- namely Sandy Collora's Dead End fan film. And while Dead End was good fanon, I wouldn't consider NECA's backstories at all because... they're TOYS. Things which really don't have any bearing on any storyline whatsoever.

And yeah.. the whole Chihuahua and Mastiff analogy kind of works too, Nolan also likened the Predators to Dogs and Wolves. The comparison with the Romulan and Vulcans also works. Which all goes back to the idea of the two races descending from a common ancestor.

-Rakai'Thwei