ALIEN: The Weyland-Yutani Report (S.D. Perry, 160 pages)

Started by Cvalda, Nov 23, 2013, 05:33:45 AM

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ALIEN: The Weyland-Yutani Report (S.D. Perry, 160 pages) (Read 398,488 times)

Nostromo

Nostromo

#1785
Nice to know you like Exoplanetology Engineer! I really didn't want to get into the brown dwarf discussiom so as to keep it from going overboard that's why I was just stopping at "it will collapse". That's what's good about Astronomy you can write a whole book on just one topic...

It makes sense that so many hot jupiters have been discovered since they orbit their host star quicker...that's how they detect planets, they see a Star's total emitted light drop by a tiny fraction of a percentage point once the planet crosses it. There are other method too though...

Anyhow more Gas Giants like Jupiter and Calpamos will be discovered in the future as these have huge orbits of 20-200+ years or more...so have to be patient.

Engineer, you think they're might be a formed gas giant 3-7x bigger than Jupiter out there? 10x is really pushing it for a formed Gas Giant. I like that saying "formed" to differentiate them from hot jupiters or semi brown dwarves, etc..

It's also amazing when you think about the size of stars..can you imagine the ones that are 1500x bigger than our Sun...insane...whole other subject though.



Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#1786
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 03:20:52 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 02:45:18 PMthe gravity of LV-426 (Acheron) is about .86 of Earth's, this hints at a very dense metal core,

This has long been my fanon rationalization as well.  As I've stated over and over, it must have something exotic worth mining or else the company wouldn't bother co-financing a colony there.
The problem is that it's not enough to account for the gravity if it's only 1200km. Earth has a very dense metal core, and it's 10x the size of LV426's supposed size.
In order to be 1200km and have a gravity of .86, it would need to be entirely composed of (as in, not just the core, but 100% of the planet) a material that is so dense that not only is it not on the periodic table of elements, but it would have a half-life in the fractions of a second. And if only "the core" is made of this magical mystery substance while the rest of the planet is made of something recognizable, then the core's material needs to be even more impossibly dense to account for the gravity.
Oh, and it would be radioactive as all shit.
You wouldn't be able to mine this mystery substance due to its density, not to mention the only way for it to exist is for it to be artificially created. Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it, Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.

There's this huge laundry list of requirements for LV426 to be 1200km, none of which the movie even comes close to showing (or outright contradicts). You have to bend over backwards and jump through dozens of hoops to reconcile what Lambert says with what the movie shows us, as opposed to taking the Tech Manual's really easy and obvious solution: "Lambert mis-spoke". And that solution even lines up with the rest of the things Lambert says about the planet.

Remind me again why you're so doggedly attached to Lambert's line from a deleted scene? William Ockham is spinning in his grave. :D

Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2016, 04:52:44 AM
There's a passing comment to that effect in the novelisation.
That's just another nail in the coffin, the core can't be made of merely conventional metal and still have the gravity described.

Engineer

Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 10:30:47 AM
Nice to know you like Exoplanetology Engineer! I really didn't want to get into the brown dwarf discussiom so as to keep it from going overboard that's why I was just stopping at "it will collapse". That's what's good about Astronomy you can write a whole book on just one topic...

It makes sense that so many hot jupiters have been discovered since they orbit their host star quicker...that's how they detect planets, they see a Star's total emitted light drop by a tiny fraction of a percentage point once the planet crosses it. There are other method too though...

Anyhow more Gas Giants like Jupiter and Calpamos will be discovered in the future as these have huge orbits of 20-200+ years or more...so have to be patient.

Engineer, you think they're might be a formed gas giant 3-7x bigger than Jupiter out there? 10x is really pushing it for a formed Gas Giant. I like that saying "formed" to differentiate them from hot jupiters or semi brown dwarves, etc..

It's also amazing when you think about the size of stars..can you imagine the ones that are 1500x bigger than our Sun...insane...whole other subject though.

Yea honestly, brown dwarfs are my favorite. They're so bizarre!

I think it's fair to say a large size gas giant might exist, but it's density would be low, a lot like saturn's, otherwise it would shift into brown dwarf territory. Ultimately, I'd say it's too early to tell, and we'll have to wait and see what other interesting planets get discovered in the years to come. Also, we've all be talking about calpamos as if it were a gas giant; it looks like a gas giant, but it could be an ice giant which might have different factors at work that impact it's size/density. It's all fun to think about and rationalize, but ultimately I think the movies just don't give us enough information to say difinitively what calpamos really is.

The same is true for moons, for that matter. We have yet to discover exomoons, but the moons in our own solar system are all so unique from one another. There's no telling what's possible there!

When it comes to rocky planets and moons though, I did read a really interesting paper about the size of the planet/moon and it's habitability. If the planet is too small, the molten core will eventually cool and solidify effectively shutting off the magnetosphere. Without the magnetosphere solar winds would whisk away any atmosphere which is what happened/is happening to Mars. Earth is just the right size, our gravity is strong enough to generate heat from friction at our core keeping it molten, and allowing the magnetosphere to stay on. Go any larger, like 'super-earths,' the magnetosphere also stays on but geological activity and volcanism become too promenant and would likely result in a toxic atmosphere or a run away greenhouse gas effect. That's all theoretical though; we can't see the super-earths well enough to tell if that's true or not.

But that raises an interesting question about lv-426 though! Whether you believe it's 1,200 km or 12,000 km, it's too small to sustain a magnetosphere, so how does it retain its atmosphere well enough to make terraforming a worthwhile venture? I have a rationalization for that: calpamos generates a strong magnetsphere a lot like Jupiter does, and lv-426 must orbit close enough to get some protection from calpamos's magnetosphere. That's one of my fan-theories though, I dunno if anyone else thinks that way about too or not. Lol

Nostromo

Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 03:20:52 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 02:45:18 PMthe gravity of LV-426 (Acheron) is about .86 of Earth's, this hints at a very dense metal core,

I think everyone here agrees that it's quite impossible for any of the moons to be 1,200km in diamater at this point. SM, can we call Fox and ask them for the size of Calpamos and its moons, or will they transfer us to an Asylum?

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#1789
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:47:11 PM
You wouldn't be able to mine this mystery substance due to its density, not to mention the only way for it to exist is for it to be artificially created. Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it, Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.

Sure.

If it was the first of its kind to be discovered.  Maybe it wasn't.  Maybe the company found planet(oid)s just like it all over the galaxy and it's not a new discovery.  Maybe Thedus is one of them.

Maybe it's old hat, just like the "monumental" scientific discovery that the capability to travel faster than the speed of light must have been.

Still waiting for a list of all the things the CMTM got right.  I admit that it's an entertaining read, but an accurate source of information from the films it's not.

Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 06:12:05 PM
I think everyone here agrees that it's quite impossible for any of the moons to be 1,200km in diamater at this point. SM, can we call Fox and ask them for the size of Calpamos and its moons, or will they transfer us to an Asylum?

Speak for yourself.  I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.

Nostromo

Nostromo

#1790
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
Yea honestly, brown dwarfs are my favorite. They're so bizarre!

Yes, love those Brown Dwarves too, have you read about these new black dwarves lol! "A black dwarf is a white dwarf that has cooled down to the temperature of the cosmic microwave background, and so is invisible. Unlike red dwarfs, brown dwarfs, and white dwarfs, black dwarfs are entirely hypothetical."

https://www.google.ca/#q=black+dwarf+star

Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM

I think it's fair to say a large size gas giant might exist, but it's density would be low, a lot like saturn's, otherwise it would shift into brown dwarf territory. Ultimately, I'd say it's too early to tell, and we'll have to wait and see what other interesting planets get discovered in the years to come. Also, we've all be talking about calpamos as if it were a gas giant; it looks like a gas giant, but it could be an ice giant which might have different factors at work that impact it's size/density. It's all fun to think about and rationalize, but ultimately I think the movies just don't give us enough information to say difinitively what calpamos really is.

The same is true for moons, for that matter. We have yet to discover exomoons, but the moons in our own solar system are all so unique from one another. There's no telling what's possible there!

When it comes to rocky planets and moons though, I did read a really interesting paper about the size of the planet/moon and it's habitability. If the planet is too small, the molten core will eventually cool and solidify effectively shutting off the magnetosphere. Without the magnetosphere solar winds would whisk away any atmosphere which is what happened/is happening to Mars. Earth is just the right size, our gravity is strong enough to generate heat from friction at our core keeping it molten, and allowing the magnetosphere to stay on. Go any larger, like 'super-earths,' the magnetosphere also stays on but geological activity and volcanism become too promenant and would likely result in a toxic atmosphere or a run away greenhouse gas effect. That's all theoretical though; we can't see the super-earths well enough to tell if that's true or not.

But that raises an interesting question about lv-426 though! Whether you believe it's 1,200 km or 12,000 km, it's too small to sustain a magnetosphere, so how does it retain its atmosphere well enough to make terraforming a worthwhile venture? I have a rationalization for that: calpamos generates a strong magnetsphere a lot like Jupiter does, and lv-426 must orbit close enough to get some protection from calpamos's magnetosphere. That's one of my fan-theories though, I dunno if anyone else thinks that way about too or not. Lol

It's crazy how everything is attached to everything else like one big domino effect. Also, how lucky we are to be actually living...as if everythign went the way it did just so there can be life...

Have you ever heard about this game called Sim Earth?

The game models the Gaia hypothesis of James Lovelock. One of my all time favorite games of the early 90's.

https://www.google.ca/#q=sim+earth


Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM

Speak for yourself.  I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.

How do you deal with what Xenomorph pointed out though?

Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM

The problem is that it's not enough to account for the gravity if it's only 1200km. Earth has a very dense metal core, and it's 10x the size of LV426's supposed size.
In order to be 1200km and have a gravity of .86, it would need to be entirely composed of (as in, not just the core, but 100% of the planet) a material that is so dense that not only is it not on the periodic table of elements, but it would have a half-life in the fractions of a second. And if only "the core" is made of this magical mystery substance while the rest of the planet is made of something recognizable, then the core's material needs to be even more impossibly dense to account for the gravity.
Oh, and it would be radioactive as all shit.

Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it, Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.

Thinking about it even more, maybe that's why they really wanted to terraform this planet? I don't know, I'm done with this lol, will just sit back and wait for more information from "the company". Transmission out lol.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#1791
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM

Speak for yourself.  I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.

How do you deal with what Xenomorph pointed out though?

I thought my previous post covered that.

Clearly it would have to be some exotic material that either doesn't exist in nature or is something we haven't discovered yet.  Like that crap from Avatar that made Pandora so valuable to the RDA.

As an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?

Nostromo

Nostromo

#1792
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 07:21:57 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM

Speak for yourself.  I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.

How do you deal with what Xenomorph pointed out though?

I thought my previous post covered that.

Clearly it would have to be some exotic material that either doesn't exist in nature or is something we haven't discovered yet.  Like that crap from Avatar that made Pandora so valuable to the RDA.

As an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?

To gather Alien Science & technology or for something really precious to the company that's worth going there for (One of a kind mineral, vast amounts of something really rare). My understanding has always been that the colonists were sent there on purpose to be studied upon, after they interact with the xenomorphs. Especially after they got a call from the company to go visit that quadrant on the map. (In the special edition).

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#1793
The ECA established the colony there and Weyland-Yutani co-financed it against mineral rights.  Even if the company still had knowledge of the derelict's presence, it wouldn't factor into their official reasons for being there.

Besides, Hadley's Hope had been there for over 20 years.  Do you really think it was part of some sort of long con?

And in case you misunderstood my question:

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 07:21:57 PMAs an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?

Our own solar system has such an abundance of minerals that we shouldn't ever have to venture light-years abroad in order to obtain any that we currently know of.

QuoteProfessor John Lewis has pointed out (in Mining the Sky) that the resources of the solar system (the most accessible of which being those in the NEAs) can permanently support in first-world comfort some quadrillion people.  In other words, the resources of the solar system are essentially infinite...

426Buddy

Earth could have reached a point where resources can no longer be produced. In order to get the immense amount of resources that humanity requires they may have to look to distant planets rich in the resources needed.

Local Trouble

Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 15, 2016, 08:03:39 PM
Earth could have reached a point where resources can no longer be produced. In order to get the immense amount of resources that humanity requires they may have to look to distant planets rich in the resources needed.

Agreed, on the condition that said resources can't be found in our own solar system.  See the link I posted above.

SM

SM

#1796
QuoteMy understanding has always been that the colonists were sent there on purpose to be studied upon, after they interact with the xenomorphs.

This is not the case.

QuoteI'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.

No need really. It's in print now.

Local Trouble

Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2016, 09:39:36 PM
QuoteI'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.

No need really. It's in print now.

But CMTM!  :laugh:

SM

I don't believe it's a competition.

Local Trouble

Neither do I, but it's apparent to me that the CMTM is still considered authoritative by a segment of the fanbase (albeit a small one).

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