Dutchs' Team vs. Alien Hive

Started by BANE, Jul 31, 2010, 01:23:19 PM

Which would annihilate the other first?

Dutchs' team
15 (31.9%)
Alien Hive
32 (68.1%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author
Dutchs' Team vs. Alien Hive (Read 3,667 times)

BANE

BANE

So I have noticed that there is a considerable amount of "vs. " threads popping up around the forums, and I thought "why not get in on the action?". However, I will not make a fatal flaw and use characters that actually did nothing on film (i.e predator elder vs... >:().

The title says it all. If you replaced the marines in Aliens with Dutchs' team, would they have done? What about in a forest environment, armed with the same weapons as they were in Predator?

Personally, I think Dutchs' team is the most professional military team we've seen yet in any film of either franchise, so I think they would kick alien ass with smart tactics and being organized. But I want to hear your opinions...well, not really, but I guess I'm forced to now that I'vwe started the thread.  :-\

ScoobySnax

ScoobySnax

#1
Unless they had the weaponry the Marines have 200 years into the future, they wouldn't stand a chance. We don't know how well their weapons would fare against them, and shoving them in an environment where the Aliens are free to ambush and stalk, then they're as good as dead within' five minutes of the initial attack. Also, try using a katana against an Alien and it will rip your balls off.

Bloodee Jacob

Bloodee Jacob

#2
As much as I love Dutch and his team they would die in an Alien hive within minutes.

BANE

BANE

#3
We've already been shown that weapons of the twenty-first century are just as lethal as the weapons the colonial marines use. This was shown in AvP:R. Plus, the weapons the marines use may seem advanced, but they really aren't. Those types of ammuniton are available nowadays. Plus, Dutchs' team has grenade launchers (both used by poncho and attached to Dutchs' gun), Knives, Uzi's, mines, grenades and machetes. Far more armoured than the colonial marines were.

As to the stalking: my answer to that is Billy. Aliens are not invisible, and even against their hive he could see the movement.

Bloodee Jacob

Bloodee Jacob

#4
Quote from: BLAIN on Jul 31, 2010, 03:43:08 PM
We've already been shown that weapons of the twenty-first century are just as lethal as the weapons the colonial marines use. This was shown in AvP:R. Plus, the weapons the marines use may seem advanced, but they really aren't. Those types of ammuniton are available nowadays. Plus, Dutchs' team has grenade launchers (both used by poncho and attached to Dutchs' gun), Knives, Uzi's, mines, grenades and machetes. Far more armoured than the colonial marines were.

As to the stalking: my answer to that is Billy. Aliens are not invisible, and even against their hive he could see the movement.

They might last a little while but I still doubt they will kill the whole hive before they are killed themselves.

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#5
AvPR doesn't count for shit.

Not because it's awful, but because it violated external (and internal) consistency on so many accounts that it just does not compute. No-one here uses it as evidence for anything.

Dutch's team is screwed. As good as they are, they're playing the Alien's game in a foreign environment with inferior weapons and technology to dudes we saw get their asses kicked. The marines had warning through the motion trackers; a couple of members of Dutch's team would die without warning and then the survivors would be picked off from wherever.

As soon as Blane (Blain? I don't know the spelling) goes down, no-one's got a weapon that'll take Aliens down on a consistent basis, pretty much sealing the game.

BANE

BANE

#6
Like it or not, AvP: R counts. Trust me, it pains me to say as well, but its undebatable.

The thing that I was always pissed at was how dumb the marines were (James Cameron actually said they were nothing like what twentieth century marines were like, and that he felt bad for making them so unorganized and undisciplined). They were unorganized and handicapped because they had to give up the majority of their ammunition (therefore rendering their main weapons useless). Good tactics and actually surveying the surrounding area would allow for a lot of killing by Dutchs' team. I mean, if they stayed close together, watching all directions and looking up, they would not have anything penetrate their formation. Its all in the tactics, which Dutchs' team showed to be very capable of implementing and changing on the fly.

Also, Blain dies, sure: that doesn't mean someone else can't pick up the weapon! I assume that was a brain fart moment, Madass... :D However, mines, grenades and the grenade launchers would do hell of a lot of damage.

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#7
About picking up the weapon:

Firstly, a minigun is a very heavy weapon. It's not easy to lift and it's not easy to move around at speed. That's time you're spending not watching for Aliens and it could be fatal. Not to mention that you'd have to take the ammo pack, too, otherwise you'd be locked in place. Unbuckling that from the corpse and putting on yourself is even more time spent vulnerable. Once Blane/Blain goes down, it isn't worth trying to use the minigun.

Grenade launchers are probably fairly effective against Aliens (but then again, they've taken worse and come away without a scratch, so who knows?). And even assuming that regular, non explosive gun rounds would do any damage, they're likely to be eaten up in the Alien's acid blood before they bounce around or penetrate deeply. As per the first AvP film, A:R and Alien, that would is probably going to heal really quickly. There's every chance that a significant portion of them will just bounce off, though, as per the handgun rounds seen in the movie (which are larger than rifle rounds).

The general forum consensus is that AvPR doesn't count. And that's a good consensus. It can't count. It simply contradicts too much of what's already established by previous films to make any sense. I won't pretend that I want it to count, but anyone can see that it just doesn't reconcile with what's presented in the other films. How can something be counted when it flatly contradicts the source material for no reason? Rhetorical; it can't. 

BANE

BANE

#8
You make a fine point about picking up the weapon. It would definitely be a vulnerability. However, good teams (as Dutchs' team clearly is) who know each and and who have worked extensively with each other adapt on the fly to nearly every situation. So they could probably cover someone like, say, Mac who would pick up the weapon. Completely surround him while he does his business. But I see the validity in your point.

As for the grenades, they don't even have to hit the aliens: the amount of damage that they did in the raid on the camp indicates that a grenade from Ponchos' launcher that is shot meters away from an alien would stilll probably kill it. Look at Vasquez and Gorman: the grenade blew up beside the aliens and the aliens were blown to pieces. Assuming that Ponchos' grenades (and Dutchs') were as powerful or more so (probably more, given the damage they did when Ripley shot them in the hive), they would do a shitload of damage within the aliens' ranks.

As for AvP:R...I can only think of two inconstisencies...as for the intelligence of the creatures, I hardly count that as an internal inconsistency.

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#9
It's an external inconsistency, which is worse in context of this discussion.

Apart from the minigun, grenades would certainly be the most effective weapon against the Aliens. But again, who knows if they'll be enough? Dutch's 'nades appeared to be pretty normal nades. The pulse rifle 'nades shook the ground enough to cause people to lose balance a fair distance away.

BANE

BANE

#10
Quote from: MadassAlex on Jul 31, 2010, 04:35:30 PM
It's an external inconsistency, which is worse in context of this discussion.

Apart from the minigun, grenades would certainly be the most effective weapon against the Aliens. But again, who knows if they'll be enough? Dutch's 'nades appeared to be pretty normal nades. The pulse rifle 'nades shook the ground enough to cause people to lose balance a fair distance away.

I'm having a retard moment...please tell me what this external inconsistency is. I am genuinely curious.

As for the grenades...I guess it depends on how many they bring. Dutchs' completely annihilated a helicopter and made a fire bomb at least 15 feet high, but I don't know how many he had. Poncho seemed to have a hell of a lot more of them...As for the grenade in Aliens, I think any grenade would have shaken the area, given the cramped quarters they were in...

I think it would all depend on how tactically smart Dutchs' team was. The aliens clearly use Guerilla attacks, striking and taking someone with them or striking and retreating. Remember how Dutch and Dillon said they'd been in Vietnam, and Poncho said him and Dutch had been in Afghanistan? The primary enemies they would face in both locales would use Guerilla tactics. So they would clearly know how to handle themselves...

PREDATOR1125

PREDATOR1125

#11
I think Dutch and his squad will win. But they might lose due to acid blood and the speed of the aliens

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#12
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the 'nades.

Personally, I think Dutch's team is screwed, no two ways about it. Their ability to deal damage to the Aliens is just too limited.

External consistency refers to the consistency between films. For instance, if Alien vs. Predator shows Celtic desperately trying to pull off his armour to prevent the acid from making contact with him and Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem shows us Wolf being immune to acid, that's a lack of external consistency.

BANE

BANE

#13
I think it depends on where the aliens set up the hive...

MadassAlex

MadassAlex

#14
Are we taking the example set by the second film and saying there's around 150 or so Aliens?

Because there is absolutely no way Dutch's team is taking on 150 Aliens, ever.

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