Scott: We are going to make another Alien movie

[Kane's other son]

In Alien they wore spacesuits. The facehugger still impregnated Kane.
In Prometheus they wore spacesuits. The black goo still melted through Fifield's helmet.
It makes no difference, because -guess what- it's all make-believe. You are arguing that fictional characters could have stopped a movie's plot from happening.

[ChrisPachi]

Also, 20 years everything is going well and then all of a sudden silence? Does that not sound like a situation requiring extra precaution?

Fair point. They probably should of sent in a marine platoon packing state of the art firepower to check it out first

Seriously though, there are varying levels of stupid. Venturing unprotected into a well known biologically sterile environment that just maybe might of fallen victim to a magical pathogenic contamination (that can somehow propagate in a biologically sterile environment) is exponentially less stupid than stepping unprotected into a completely unknown biologically active environment filthy with life.

Drawing any logical equivalence between the two just can't be done, so I reckon you are being purposefully contrary. Not sure why though.

If you enjoy the film, if you feel respected by the storyteller, if there's goodwill all round, then you're far more likely to allow the filmmaker license to stretch reality in ways that make the storytelling easier.

In other words 'One will swallow as much bullshit as one is willing to swallow'. I enjoy Covenant just fine, but damn is it just loaded to the hilt with bullshit. Feel free to call it out; despite what some people think it is actually OK to criticise things that you like.

You are arguing that fictional characters could have stopped a movie's plot from happening.

I love this sentence.

[Paranoid Android]

In Alien they wore spacesuits. The facehugger still impregnated Kane.
In Prometheus they wore spacesuits. The black goo still melted through Fifield's helmet.
It makes no difference, because -guess what- it's all make-believe. You are arguing that fictional characters could have stopped a movie's plot from happening.

Absolutely nobody argues that fictional characters could have stopped a movie's plot from happening.

The argument is that a good story has the plot happening despite the characters doing everything in their power to avoid harm. The fact that Kane wore a spacesuit and the facehugger still got him, so the suit didn't matter - is what matters; The fact that Ripley and the marines hole themselves in and barricade the hell out of their positions, but the aliens still get in so none of it mattered - is what matters. Character choices matter. It's the script's job to sell those choices to the audience in order to make the characters compelling. If the choices don't matter - the story itself doesn't matter.

[tleilaxu]

Also, 20 years everything is going well and then all of a sudden silence? Does that not sound like a situation requiring extra precaution?

Fair point. They probably should of sent in a marine platoon packing state of the art firepower to check it out first

Seriously though, there are varying levels of stupid. Venturing unprotected into a well known biologically sterile environment that just maybe might of fallen victim to a magical pathogenic contamination (that can somehow propagate in a biologically sterile environment) is exponentially less stupid than stepping unprotected into a completely unknown biologically active environment filthy with life.

And how exactly would you know it's """biologically sterile""" beforehand?

Drawing any logical equivalence between the two just can't be done, so I reckon you are being purposefully contrary. Not sure why though.

Lol, the level of delusional denial when it comes to the first two movies is just insane.

[Nukiemorph]

God I'm sick of this argument.

[The Cruentus]

it is actually OK to criticise things that you like.

Indeed, I can think a few things in the first two films easily, they are not immune just because they are good movies.

In Alien they wore spacesuits. The facehugger still impregnated Kane.
In Prometheus they wore spacesuits. The black goo still melted through Fifield's helmet.
It makes no difference, because -guess what- it's all make-believe. You are arguing that fictional characters could have stopped a movie's plot from happening.

Absolutely nobody argues that fictional characters could have stopped a movie's plot from happening.

The argument is that a good story has the plot happening despite the characters doing everything in their power to avoid harm. The fact that Kane wore a spacesuit and the facehugger still got him, so the suit didn't matter - is what matters; The fact that Ripley and the marines hole themselves in and barricade the hell out of their positions, but the aliens still get in so none of it mattered - is what matters. Character choices matter. It's the script's job to sell those choices to the audience in order to make the characters compelling. If the choices don't matter - the story itself doesn't matter.

Exactly, the fact that characters being killed/infected in spite of their best efforts is what would make the threat more dangerous and impressive. Death via stupidity is not impressive, its low and idiotic.
According to Ridley Scott in the commentary, most of them on the Covenant are scientists and are supposedly the "foremost best in their respective field" but the movie not only doesn't show this but makes them out to lack even common sense.

Lol, the level of delusional denial when it comes to the first two movies is just insane.

Not a very pleasant thing to say.

The first two movies are not critic proof but Covenant is just an inferior film with slasher genre characters, basically a bunch of slasher victims running and tripping over the proverbial root in the ground or making some other slasher trope mistakes.
The "denial" thing can easily be applied to the other side of an argument, since there has been a lot of folks glossing over the blatant mistakes of the covenant crew but people's opinion must be respected either way, they are allowed to love the movie in spite of the issues, whether they see it or not. And they are allowed to criticise the movie that they believe has made mistakes, especially ones that cheap and insulting. It doesn't mean they are "delusionally" liking the first two.

[426Buddy]

I just dont think a team would be sent to investigate a  colony that might be infected with an alien parasite, a parasite that comes from an alien spacecraft containing alien eggs and god know what else (black goo could have been there for all we or anyone in universe knows), without taking all the necesary quarantine precautions.

The idea that the colony had been there 20 years means nothing since they dont have a clue what else is on the Derelict. Its not like Ripley was even in the craft before and Dallas, Kane, and Lambert didnt investigate the whole ship.

The counter argument is like saying that if an alien spacecraft was discovered in rural america then there would be no need for precautionary measures when investigating. Because its rural america and we know there is no alien disease in rural america.

[No Name]

Because LV-426 had already been surveyed, colonized, and had it's atmosphere processed. There would be little to no risk of a pathogen of that kind existing on a dead rock that has been terraformed by and with often used methods, and the Alien if it was involved was also a known quantity

People are still failing to see the point...

Quote
No, that's just not the same kind of thing. Massive stellar events are nothing like biological quarantine and standard safety measures. f**king Hell people, we practice this kind of stuff in the grocery business to keep people from getting horrifically ill from cross contamination. Masks, gloves, hair nets. This is our own planet trying to kill us.

Of course you'd wear biohazard gear. Especially something to cover your face and mouth. Just because a local sampling of the air reads clear doesn't mean you won't have exactly what happened, happened.

Yes, so why would it not make sense for the Marines to wear such gear then?

[/b]

Fair point. They probably should of sent in a marine platoon packing state of the art firepower to check it out first

Seriously though, there are varying levels of stupid. Venturing unprotected into a well known biologically sterile environment that just maybe might of fallen victim to a magical pathogenic contamination (that can somehow propagate in a biologically sterile environment) is exponentially less stupid than stepping unprotected into a completely unknown biologically active environment filthy with life.

Drawing any logical equivalence between the two just can't be done, so I reckon you are being purposefully contrary. Not sure why though.

No. What they should have done was wear protective biohazard suits. They have absolutely no idea what happened. Why were a marine platoon armed to the teeth sent in the first place? Why not just send an investigative unit of sorts? They obviously think something serious may have happened but don't have any reliable information to go on.

But sure, lets send in the marines, but forget about equipping them with biohazard gear, because you know, its only a tiny colony built on a rock in the middle of nowhere, and being sustained solely through atmo-processors. I mean of course, it is absolutely impossible for an unknown biological contamination of unknown origins to break out in an environment far out in outer space. Because 20 years of everything fine = no chance of any future potential outbreaks from any kind of source in such a context. Of course.

Anyone seen the Mist? Look at the ending here: https://youtu.be/ktqNNsVJhUE?t=222

The Marines should have been suited up in a similar fashion. The soldiers in that instance are following a particular protocol. The Marines followed no such protocol in responding to a situation serious enough that it necessitated their presence and for which they had virtually no concrete information. 

There is absolutely no in-film justification for this lack of protocol. None. The only justifiable explanations are out-film such as the Gentlemens' Agreement TC brought up earlier. I'm simply amazed at how people continue to go with foolish in-film explanations when the out-film reasons sufficiently explain why, in this particular instance, Covenent crew=morons, Aliens crew=fine.

[tleilaxu]

Lol, the level of delusional denial when it comes to the first two movies is just insane.

Not a very pleasant thing to say.

The first two movies are not critic proof but Covenant is just an inferior film with slasher genre characters, basically a bunch of slasher victims running and tripping over the proverbial root in the ground or making some other slasher trope mistakes.
The "denial" thing can easily be applied to the other side of an argument, since there has been a lot of folks glossing over the blatant mistakes of the covenant crew but people's opinion must be respected either way, they are allowed to love the movie in spite of the issues, whether they see it or not. And they are allowed to criticise the movie that they believe has made mistakes, especially ones that cheap and insulting. It doesn't mean they are "delusionally" liking the first two.

The "denial" thing can easily be applied to the other side of an argument, since there has been a lot of folks glossing over the blatant mistakes of the covenant crew but people's opinion must be respected either way, they are allowed to love the movie in spite of the issues, whether they see it or not. And they are allowed to criticise the movie that they believe has made mistakes, especially ones that cheap and insulting. It doesn't mean they are "delusionally" liking the first two.

This is exactly what some of you people are doing though. I'm not saying there aren't mistakes in Covenant, I completely agree with many of the criticisms, but whenever you try to put it into perspective by mentioning flaws in other alien movies you get met with this exact wall of denial.

[SM]

So they should just shut up and agree?

[tleilaxu]

No. See TC's post for a good example on how you can disagree without evading an issue due to cognitive bias.

[SM]

Who's evading then?

[Baron Von Marlon]

I missed out on the whole "the skull" thing, but can we call this "the helmet"?

[whiterabbit]

I missed out on the whole "the skull" thing, but can we call this "the helmet"?

AND it has finally been given a name.

The thing is though, all of us do things that we know are not safe from time to time. Like hanging out of a four story window to paint an awning without a wire harness or respirator. Yea I totally got it but still, one banana and down I go. People cut corners all of the time, even professionals. The Helmet just isn't that big of an issue when we are talking about human beings.

[The Old One]

If you want the audience to empathise rather than criticize, you need to show the characters making decisions we understand and believe are intelligent.