Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

[predxeno]

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. "Ignoring" might only extend as far as "not referencing the specific events/characters of", and by that metric most of the comics "ignore" each other. AvP Evolution largely "ignores" the AvP movies (aside from including the AvP Pred armors as unlockables) and that game is a hoot. "Ignores" also doesn't automatically mean "outright contradicts". 'Predators' ignored 'Predator 2', but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I'm not saying that ignoring the AVP films would be a bad idea, I'm just saying that they're doing it for the wrong reasons; mark my words; when these people listen to the fans, all the fans will do is find something else to complain about (more often than not because the producers executed the fans' wishes unbelievably badly).

[Kimarhi]

The filmmakers shouldn't cater to fans and just make a good movie.  I actually prefer directors/writers who aren't fan of the material themselves simply because it gives them some impartialness they might otherwise not have.

Some shit needs to STAY out of the franchise.  The quoting of the older movies, the using "scenes" from the old movies, f**king Bishop.  Too big an Alien fan and you end up with AvP.  Too big a pred fan and you end up with AvPR.

[SM]

Christ yes, they need to give up on Bishop.

[predxeno]

What's even more annoying than all the points you guys made is when they put in homages (or exact copies) of moments from previous films in the new ones.  Oh My God... these people are supposed to make a new addition to a franchise, not copy the past.

[Kimarhi]

I thought it was annoying way back in AvP when they tried homage to the chains in Alien in the whaling shack and again when they tried to rip the Dallas air duct scene.

If you can't think of anything new to do for your story, don't rehash old stuff, either think of something new or pass the buck on to someone else.

[SM]

You mean how Cameron rehashed a shit tonne of beats from Alien?

I don't remember ever picking up on those things from AvP.  At least not enough to care.

I don't mind rehashing - as long as it doesn't look like rehashing.

[Kimarhi]

At least when Cameron did it he had Marines inserted with multiple Aliens and automatic weapons.  Even the mano y mano fight at the end was done with a powerloader inserted.

Aside from that I saw the sequels years before I saw the first movie.  Sometimes I suspect that's why Alien has surpassed the sequels as my favorite.  Because I have about three less years of watching it compared to Aliens and Alien 3 and haven't burned myself out on it.

Maybe I was looking for it.  The difference between Aliens and AvP was that Aliens was an impressive movie with memorable settings and characters.  My mind was actually glued to the happenings of the screen.  In AvP I was just absently wondering when the first cardboard cutout was going to die.

[Xenomrph]

You mean how Cameron rehashed a shit tonne of beats from Alien?

I don't remember ever picking up on those things from AvP.  At least not enough to care.

I don't mind rehashing - as long as it doesn't look like rehashing.

This. There's a difference between an homage for homage's sake (like, say, the opening titles to AvPR where they toss in the motion tracker sound effects just cuz), an homage that's thematically appropriate, and an homage that's not necessarily an homage because that implies intent on the creator's part.

[The1PerfectOrganism]

Yeah innovate not impersonate.

[PRJ_since1990]

You mean how Cameron rehashed a shit tonne of beats from Alien?

I don't remember ever picking up on those things from AvP.  At least not enough to care.

I don't mind rehashing - as long as it doesn't look like rehashing.

This. There's a difference between an homage for homage's sake (like, say, the opening titles to AvPR where they toss in the motion tracker sound effects just cuz), an homage that's thematically appropriate, and an homage that's not necessarily an homage because that implies intent on the creator's part.

Homages are great. Repeating character names (such as Dallas in AvPR) doesn't cut it. Using thematic elements such as setting or musical cues are great. Trying to redo the original movie but with all new characters while simultaneously kicking the predecessor's antagonist's balls (aka Predators) is just insulting.

Too many throwbacks don't help the film progress or add anything. Too little similarity to the original hurts the franchise overall. We need a balance. The AvP movies, Predators, A:R, I like them. They're fun movies. But when you analyze them, compare and contrast them, and take a step back to see how they fit into the overall story arc, you start to realize (IMO) they subtract more than they add to the franchises.

From a critical stand point, what did AvP movies add the franchise? Again, IMO:
-New Predator weapons and armor -Predalien (and a new Alien breeding technique)
What did they subtract? How did they hurt the franchise?
-Alien lifecycle time/fearsomeness (they're portrayed more as canon fodder comparable to most of the human characters)
-It's ok now to kill children and pregnant women via Chestbursting (...not ok) -There shall be no memorable characters/dialogue (save for maybe "The government doesn't lie to people") -Alien acid will conveniently not burn away the environment should the producer/director not want it to

The list can go on and be as long as you want or as short. Bottom line is 95% of us acknowledge or agree that Alien, Aliens, Predator and to a lesser extent, Predator 2 and Alien 3 as the core films from which all future franchise editions must spawn from. As long as this reboot honors the original films without being carbon copies of them, everyone should be happy. 

[SM]

The AvP movies, Predators, A:R, I like them. They're fun movies. But when you analyze them, compare and contrast them, and take a step back to see how they fit into the overall story arc, you start to realize (IMO) they subtract more than they add to the franchises.

Yet when you analyze Resurrection, there's more going on than people are aware of, when you take Christian symbolism and the Return of Campbell's monomyth into account.

Of course most people couldn't give enough of a shit about Resurrection, but there you go.

[PRJ_since1990]

The AvP movies, Predators, A:R, I like them. They're fun movies. But when you analyze them, compare and contrast them, and take a step back to see how they fit into the overall story arc, you start to realize (IMO) they subtract more than they add to the franchises.

Yet when you analyze Resurrection, there's more going on than people are aware of, when you take Christian symbolism and the Return of Campbell's monomyth into account.

Of course most people couldn't give enough of a shit about Resurrection, but there you go.

With respect, would you explain what you mean? I always viewed Resurrection as a pseudo Aliens-style movie that, IMO, crashed and burned about 3/4 of the way through it, so to me it was like a ride at the amusement park that starts out cool but over half way through you puke and just want off it. 

[Kimarhi]

I'm sure Alien Res has lots going on for it under the surface but its one of those movies I can't get past at a surface level.

I think movies have to work at that level before they can work at a deeper one.

Unless its borderline crazy arthouse shit like The Fountain.

[SM]

There's a lot of Christian symbolism througout, in terms of crucifix imagery (the shape of the Betty or Call falling into the water after being shot by Wren) the shape of the Auriga docking bays and how they recall a a cathedral shape, Ripley's arms folded over her chest in the cloning tank in the same way a non-Catholic would receive a blessing during communion (Call crosses herself in the chapel but Ripley doesn't), the number 8 being the number of renewal and new beginnings, Ripley's 'stigmata' with Call's knife.

With the monomyth thing, Ressurection hits a number of beats:
Refusal of the Return - Ripley's general disinterest in the events early on in the film.
Magic Flight - Escape from the Aliens smashing into her cell using the 'boon' (ie. her Alien biology)
Rescue from without - Call coaxing out Ripley's humanity
Crossing the return threshold - Possibly Ripley shooting the Alien's head off and siding with the humans
Master of two worlds - The Newborn siding with Ripley rather than the Queen and how Ripley uses that to ultimately destroy it
Freedom to live - Pretty obvious

Now, I'm not saying that any of this is intentional, and it doesn't stop it being a flawed film.  But, as I said, there you go.

[Xenomrph]

-Alien acid will conveniently not burn away the environment should the producer/director not want it to

The thing is, that was true of all the movies even before 'AvP'.