Marvel Officially Acquires Alien and Predator Comic License

[SiL]

Or they have no strong beliefs either way.

Which would still be not challenging their beliefs.

When it's subtle, many only find subtext, when they're looking for subtext.

There is nothing subtle about Alien's handling of the topic. Alien only has one thing to say about corporations and it is that they are monstrously indifferent to human suffering if it means they can earn a buck. It's not subtext, it's text. This information and message is an explicit part of the plot.

When things aren't subtle and people miss it, many make excuses for missing it. But it is OK to miss obvious things. We've all walked into walls or lampposts at some point in our lives.

[Mr.Turok]

Its subtle if you are not actively looking for it. I got into this fandom in my early preteen years and I didn't pick this up until I got older and more experience with the political ongoings on the US. Hell, even the example of Alien 3 with the subtext of abortion/pro-choice I didn't even think of other than Ripley making sure that the Queen does not fall to Weyland-Yutani hands. The dialogue with them arguing about how much they can learn from it and what they can become despite the face violation Ripley had received from the facehugger does mirror the pro-anti abortion arguments of letting embryo come to terms even if its a product of rape anyway, as the possible child can be a benefit to the world somehow (he/she could be a great genius, ect).

Marvel is sadly no longer a place of good storytelling due to  its writers and artist think it's there own personal soap box to tell everybody there own political views even though we just came for a good story

But yeah don't let that one fool make yall tear each other apart. Everything has some form of political messaging, some much more in face front than others, but it is there no matter how much one wants it or not. If one wants to argue execution of combining political messaging with good storytelling now thats a different argument all together.

I mean does anyone remember the beginning to Men In Black? You know, the part when Agent K (Tommy Lee Jones) and his partner were at the US-Mexican Border that stopped a routine border patrol who caught immigrants trying to get in the US as one of the aliens that the MIB agents were looking for was disguised as an "Illegal alien" play on words right there. In Spanish, Agent K was actually being friendly with them and welcoming them into the US while making back handed complements to the border patrol about thanking them for protecting the US from "dangerous " illegal aliens. That scene wouldn't fly theses days with right leaning snowflakes crying agenda. It was a perfectly three layered writing of introducing the MIB's task of policing actual space aliens entering Earth, placing the ironic joke of two organization groups investigating "illegal aliens", while shitting on the fact that the MIB's actual task was much more real and dangerous compared to poor immigrants entering another nation only because they are desperate for a better life?

This scene right is, is delicious!

[Immortan Jonesy]

Hell, even the example of Alien 3 with the subtext of abortion/pro-choice I didn't even think of other than Ripley making sure that the Queen does not fall to Weyland-Yutani hands. The dialogue with them arguing about how much they can learn from it and what they can become despite the face violation Ripley had received from the facehugger does mirror the pro-anti abortion arguments of letting embryo come to terms even if its a product of rape anyway, as the possible child can be a benefit to the world somehow (he/she could be a great genius, ect).

Did you make all that up to sound clever, or is there any David Fincher quote to back it up?

It is a genuine question. Since I'm not an Alien scholar.

[SiL]

Its subtle if you are not actively looking for it.

Again, what part of "the company we work for doesn't care if we die so they can get this thing" is subtle?

Whether one acknowledges that as a political sentiment or not isn't the same as the sentiment itself being obvious.

The Alien 3 example is allegorical. It's thematic. There is subtlety there. To make the situations comparable you'd have Bishop II screaming "Abortion is wrong!" and Ripley shouting back "My body my choice" as she yeets herself into the furnace.

[Voodoo Magic]

Or they have no strong beliefs either way.

Which would still be not challenging their beliefs.

More to the point there's no beliefs to challenge.

When it's subtle, many only find subtext, when they're looking for subtext.

There is nothing subtle about Alien's handling of the topic. Alien only has one thing to say about corporations and it is that they are monstrously indifferent to human suffering if it means they can earn a buck. It's not subtext, it's text. This information and message is an explicit part of the plot.

Or they don't interpret any "message" because they don't see all companies as inherently evil, just the fictional one they see in the fun B movie they're watching. Again, if no statements come across as blanket statements, it never feels inherently political to one who doesn't interpret it as such.

[Immortan Jonesy]

Special Order 937 is top secret though.

Its subtle if you are not actively looking for it.

Again, what part of "the company we work for doesn't care if we die so they can get this thing" is subtle?

The Alien 3 example is allegorical. It's thematic. There is subtlety there. To make the situations comparable you'd have Bishop II screaming "Abortion is wrong!" and Ripley shouting back "My body my choice" as she yeets herself into the furnace.

It's as allegorical as Vietnam War in Cameron's Aliens.

James Cameron: "Their training and technology are inappropriate for the specifics, and that can be seen as analogous to the inability of the superior American firepower to conquer the unseen enemy in Vietnam: a lot of firepower and very little wisdom, and it didn't work."

Still sounds like pretentious bs. The Alien 3 example, I mean.

[SiL]

Again, if no statements come across as blanket statements, it never feels inherently political to one who doesn't interpret it as such.

That's not the film being subtle, that's the viewer being oblivious.

[Voodoo Magic]

Again, if no statements come across as blanket statements, it never feels inherently political to one who doesn't interpret it as such.

That's not the film being subtle, that's the viewer being oblivious.

Nah, it's all about perspective. We'll just agree to disagree.

[Immortan Jonesy]

Again, if no statements come across as blanket statements, it never feels inherently political to one who doesn't interpret it as such.

That's not the film being subtle, that's the viewer being oblivious.

Nah, it's all about perspective. We'll just agree to disagree.

When you story background it's about an industrial society...where megacorporations, who don't care about human rights, are the ones who're controling the colonization and exploration of the space...it's not about perspective. 

I think I'll move on from podcasts. What a shame 

[Voodoo Magic]

Again, if no statements come across as blanket statements, it never feels inherently political to one who doesn't interpret it as such.

That's not the film being subtle, that's the viewer being oblivious.

Nah, it's all about perspective. We'll just agree to disagree.

When you story background it's about an industrial society; where megacorporations control colonization and space who don't care about human rights...it's not about perspective.

Must disagree. To receive a "message" from the actual material being presented versus what one may infer from the fictional world this fictional alien lives in, is all contingent to one's perspective.

I think I'll move on from podcasts. What a shame 

Huh?

[Immortan Jonesy]

I think I hate you all 

But aye! We agree to disagree.

*time to use the ignore funtion to ignore almost the entire AVPGalaxy...again!* 

[SiL]

To receive a "message" from the actual material being presented versus what one may infer from the fictional world this fictional alien lives in, is all contingent to one's perspective.

This is, again, arguing that the audience is oblivious to the message, not that the message isn't present.

[Voodoo Magic]

To receive a "message" from the actual material being presented versus what one may infer from the fictional world this fictional alien lives in, is all contingent to one's perspective.

This is, again, arguing that the audience is oblivious to the message, not that the message isn't present.

This was never a debate (at least for me) that a message didn't exist, but rather it was subtle, meaning it was there for those who wanted to find one, not due to an oblivious state.

[Immortan Jonesy]

I think I'll move on from podcasts. What a shame 

Huh?

Hicks is going to kill me for this, but I meant I won't watch your shitty podscasts 

It's not a big deal anyway. Good night 

[Voodoo Magic]

I think I'll move on from podcasts. What a shame 

Huh?

Hicks is going to kill me for this, but I meant I won't watch your shitty podscasts 

It's not a big deal anyway. Good night

Sorry this was affecting to you in an irritating way!  It's hard to judge this all in text. I was actually enjoying the general discussion. But now I see it's definitely time to move on!  Cheers !