Spoilers: Xenomorph origin revealed

[XenoHunter99]

Is it too late to say ... it's just a movie 

It is. But it's more, too. And surely you know you are in the wrong place for that placid interpretation.

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

Right! This is the problem. We have the idea in our heads that it's ancient. That fits a certain narrative, but I think we are seeing the re-writing of that narrative. How you think about these new movies is greatly influenced by your position on that narrative.

[Ingwar]

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

It's no-brainer because Xenomorphs are ancient species. David didn't create them. If he did it would kill all the mystery about Alien universe and Scott knows that. For that reasons he repeats like mantra the same thing: who created them and why? Those two simple questions give an answer to one certain thing: it is not David for sure. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

It's like with the rumour about Daniel's being Ripley's mother. Some fans believed in that. I didn't. Scott is not that stupid. Some fans just create those crazy theories and then other fans have panic-attacks.

[CainsSon]

Is it too late to say ... it's just a movie 

It is. But it's more, too. And surely you know you are in the wrong place for that placid interpretation.

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

Right! This is the problem. We have the idea in our heads that it's ancient. That fits a certain narrative, but I think we are seeing the re-writing of that narrative. How you think about these new movies is greatly influenced by your position on that narrative.

And this is what I mean about fans thinking they know what they don't want. I like that Derelict being Ancient. I think it really adds this Lovecraftian-Deep-Time scary mystery. The perversity of its design not withstanding.
However, if they should decide to change that narrative, I won't know if I like it until I see how well it's handled.
This is why I think the only thing the Studio should consider is what fans aren't getting or feeling from what's been released.
Because the fact is, I think the Engineers themselves were fine, it's how they were handled that sucked. Its not WHAT they did to change the narrative. Its how it was handled.
GIGER'S ARTWORK included Engineer looking humaoid's biomechanically fused with the same type of stuff seen in the Derelict. But when they introduced them in Prometheus, they shied away from the very things that would have made them horrific and instead, used cheesy green holograms. NO!!! If when that Engineer sat in that Pilot seat, the entire mechanics started fusing with his body horrifically, or if he subjected humans to fusing with stuff much in the same way, PROMETHEUS would have been astronomically better-received.
Its not about worrying about what fans don't want, it's about not delivering it in a way that fans will accept, because its not in step with what they love about the series.
Its the same thing with the beginning of Alien3. Its not that the developments are unpopular. Thats what people THINK annoys them. Rather, its the way they are handled.

[Infected]

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

It's no-brainer because Xenomorphs are ancient species. David didn't create them. If he did it would kill all the mystery about Alien universe and Scott knows that. For that reasons he repeats like mantra the same thing: who created them and why? Those two simple questions give an answer to one certain thing: it is not David for sure. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

It's like with the rumour about Daniel's being Ripley's mother. Some fans believed in that. I didn't. Scott is not that stupid. Some fans just create those crazy theories and then other fans have panic-attacks.

Ok, lets get this from the beginning, i dont know what the comics and all other sources say about this, but lets for instance see the space jockey in the comics before Prometheus came out, in some comics they looked ridiculous, and it just said that the people who made those comics didnt had a clue how to portrait the jockey, they just went with the Alien look.
So where and how did you guys came up with the fact that the xenomorph is ancient? i dont find it in any of the latest movie(s)
and i dont think Ridley wants that.

[Ingwar]

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

It's no-brainer because Xenomorphs are ancient species. David didn't create them. If he did it would kill all the mystery about Alien universe and Scott knows that. For that reasons he repeats like mantra the same thing: who created them and why? Those two simple questions give an answer to one certain thing: it is not David for sure. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

It's like with the rumour about Daniel's being Ripley's mother. Some fans believed in that. I didn't. Scott is not that stupid. Some fans just create those crazy theories and then other fans have panic-attacks.

Ok, lets get this from the beginning, i dont know what the comics and all other sources say about this, but lets for instance see the space jockey in the comics before Prometheus came out, in some comics they looked ridiculous, and it just said that the people who made those comics didnt had a clue how to portrait the jockey, they just went with the Alien look.
So where and how did you guys came up with the fact that the xenomorph is ancient? i dont find it in any of the latest movie(s)
and i dont think Ridley wants that.

It's only my opinion about what Scott wants. I might be wrong and you might be right. What I'm saying is that when Scott is asked about Covenant he always repeats himself saying that: who created them and why? Then he says that these bio-mechanoids (he likes using that word) are weapons of mass destruction which means that they have been used before by some other species (Engineers?). For that reason David cannot be Xenomorph's creator. It would be illogical. Scott wants to go big. Epic. He wants to extend that Alien mythos and David being responsible for Xenomorph creation doesn't fit into that idea. That's what I think.

[Evanus]

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

It's no-brainer because Xenomorphs are ancient species. David didn't create them. If he did it would kill all the mystery about Alien universe and Scott knows that. For that reasons he repeats like mantra the same thing: who created them and why? Those two simple questions give an answer to one certain thing: it is not David for sure. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

It's like with the rumour about Daniel's being Ripley's mother. Some fans believed in that. I didn't. Scott is not that stupid. Some fans just create those crazy theories and then other fans have panic-attacks.

Ok, lets get this from the beginning, i dont know what the comics and all other sources say about this, but lets for instance see the space jockey in the comics before Prometheus came out, in some comics they looked ridiculous, and it just said that the people who made those comics didnt had a clue how to portrait the jockey, they just went with the Alien look.
So where and how did you guys came up with the fact that the xenomorph is ancient? i dont find it in any of the latest movie(s)
and i dont think Ridley wants that.

It's only my opinion about what Scott wants. I might be wrong and you might be right. What I'm saying is that when Scott is asked about Covenant he always repeats himself saying that: who created them and why? Then he says that these bio-mechanoids (he likes using that word) are weapons of mass destruction which means that they have been used before by some other species (Engineers?). For that reason David cannot be Xenomorph's creator. It would be illogical. Scott wants to go big. Epic. He wants to extend that Alien mythos and David being responsible for Xenomorph creation doesn't fit into that idea. That's what I think.

That makes a lot of sense and I hope you're right. But if that's the case, then why does Covenant focus so much on David making his Xenomorphs? They're really hinting at David being their creator. It kind of contradicts what Scott says.

[Felipescado]

as the article says, david might be recreating engineer's experiments, continuing them or "perfecting" them, but being the very creator of the xenomorph species i dont think so, given the deacon in prometheus exists, even if different looking, it already rules out that possibility, and the process, is already shown, an EGG(elizabeth shaw) produces the parasite(trilobite) that impregnates a host(last engineer) and then the creature emerges when ready(deacon and though way bigger and more developed than the usual xenomorphs, iit woulcc be the same case as the runner alien that develops further before bursting out of its host)

question is, WHY, then hwy is he reconstructed, if i were shaw i woudltn even think about letting "it" do the same again(given that he was te one who infected her boyfriend to begin with)

[XenoHunter99]

And this is what I mean about fans thinking they know what they don't want. I like that Derelict being Ancient. I think it really adds this Lovecraftian-Deep-Time scary mystery. The perversity of its design not withstanding.
However, if they should decide to change that narrative, I won't know if I like it until I see how well it's handled.
This is why I think the only thing the Studio should consider is what fans aren't getting or feeling from what's been released.
Because the fact is, I think the Engineers themselves were fine, it's how they were handled that sucked. Its not WHAT they did to change the narrative. Its how it was handled.
GIGER'S ARTWORK included Engineer looking humaoid's biomechanically fused with the same type of stuff seen in the Derelict. But when they introduced them in Prometheus, they shied away from the very things that would have made them horrific and instead, used cheesy green holograms. NO!!! If when that Engineer sat in that Pilot seat, the entire mechanics started fusing with his body horrifically, or if he subjected humans to fusing with stuff much in the same way, PROMETHEUS would have been astronomically better-received.
Its not about worrying about what fans don't want, it's about not delivering it in a way that fans will accept, because its not in step with what they love about the series.
Its the same thing with the beginning of Alien3. Its not that the developments are unpopular. Thats what people THINK annoys them. Rather, its the way they are handled.

That's pretty cool. We're in agreement on a lot of things. I think, these new movies would be stronger if Scott & Co decided to move forward instead of falling into the prequel trap. This is what kills the mystery. Everything is explained one way (even things that should not be explicitly explained), and the story is stuck in a time warp. Plus, as Hicks points out (and I completely agree), Aliens Apocalypse: The Destroying Angels already made a much more compelling attempt at positioning the Aliens and Space Jockeys in the universe. That had a little comics weirdness, but it had a whole lot of Conrad themes and Lovecraftian goodness about it. It was deliberately Heart of Darkness with Aliens and Space Jockeys. Many elements were nicely handled, and it was not a prequel story.

[Ballzanya]

He's not creating them. He's re-creating them. IMO.

Or possibly altering a form of iife the engineers had already exploited as weapons, to become even deadlier and consequently, even more uncontrollable.

[XenoHunter99]

It's only my opinion about what Scott wants. I might be wrong and you might be right. What I'm saying is that when Scott is asked about Covenant he always repeats himself saying that: who created them and why? Then he says that these bio-mechanoids (he likes using that word) are weapons of mass destruction which means that they have been used before by some other species (Engineers?). For that reason David cannot be Xenomorph's creator. It would be illogical. Scott wants to go big. Epic. He wants to extend that Alien mythos and David being responsible for Xenomorph creation doesn't fit into that idea. That's what I think.

We have no idea what Scott wants to do. Intentionality is often unreliable as an ascribed motivation in making a work of art, especially when the work takes a long time to complete. Intentions change over time. The movie will be whatever it is and we will evaluate from there.

[SpeedyMaxx]

I think Ridley's fascinated with David/Fassbender, so he chose to make David central to the mythos. When the original plans for a Prometheus sequel were dropped and they went back to more direct fan service, he kept David in the loop with this.

If he was going to go space epic he'd have done it here. Instead the story is moving sharply away from any of that, wiping out most traces, and going back to an evil android and some aliens. Whether he is completing the Engineers' work or not, who created them and why is answered in this movie - it's David. It's all about David and the aliens from hereon.

[XenoHunter99]

Ok, lets get this from the beginning, i dont know what the comics and all other sources say about this, but lets for instance see the space jockey in the comics before Prometheus came out, in some comics they looked ridiculous, and it just said that the people who made those comics didnt had a clue how to portrait the jockey, they just went with the Alien look.
So where and how did you guys came up with the fact that the xenomorph is ancient? i dont find it in any of the latest movie(s)
and i dont think Ridley wants that.

Expanded universe is wildly uneven in tone and quality. Best to stick to ideas presented by O'Bannon and Giger. Understand that O'Bannon stole from many sci fi works to craft Alien, that sci fi is rich with pre-cursor races, dead ancients and all that. Giger was heavily influenced by Lovecraft. And we can cover the notion of that with two lines from the web: http://lovecraft.wikia.com/wiki/R%27lyeh  The nightmare corpse-city of R'lyeh ... was built in measureless eons behind history by the vast, loathsome shapes that seeped down from the dark stars. There lay great Cthulhu and his hordes, hidden in green slimy vaults ... until the end. It's all ancient, mad gods and hideous monsters. Add in the general appearance of the Derelict and you get the feeling it's all quite old and alien. There are logical counter-arguments, but the idea of an ancient horror from beyond is an interesting idea to earth-bound humans.

[rabidranger]

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

It's no-brainer because Xenomorphs are ancient species. David didn't create them. If he did it would kill all the mystery about Alien universe and Scott knows that. For that reasons he repeats like mantra the same thing: who created them and why? Those two simple questions give an answer to one certain thing: it is not David for sure. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

It's like with the rumour about Daniel's being Ripley's mother. Some fans believed in that. I didn't. Scott is not that stupid. Some fans just create those crazy theories and then other fans have panic-attacks.

Ok, lets get this from the beginning, i dont know what the comics and all other sources say about this, but lets for instance see the space jockey in the comics before Prometheus came out, in some comics they looked ridiculous, and it just said that the people who made those comics didnt had a clue how to portrait the jockey, they just went with the Alien look.
So where and how did you guys came up with the fact that the xenomorph is ancient? i dont find it in any of the latest movie(s)
and i dont think Ridley wants that.

It's only my opinion about what Scott wants. I might be wrong and you might be right. What I'm saying is that when Scott is asked about Covenant he always repeats himself saying that: who created them and why? Then he says that these bio-mechanoids (he likes using that word) are weapons of mass destruction which means that they have been used before by some other species (Engineers?). For that reason David cannot be Xenomorph's creator. It would be illogical. Scott wants to go big. Epic. He wants to extend that Alien mythos and David being responsible for Xenomorph creation doesn't fit into that idea. That's what I think.

That makes a lot of sense and I hope you're right. But if that's the case, then why does Covenant focus so much on David making his Xenomorphs? They're really hinting at David being their creator. It kind of contradicts what Scott says.

David might very well be the creator of the xenomorph as we know it. However, he clearly didn't create the black goo or originate whatever the xenomorph's original form is. 

[Infected]

Xenomorphs existed long before David's experiments. I assumed you watched Alien . Derelict was an ancient ship. It's no-brainer.

Who said the derelict was ancient? some old smoking space trucker/labour guy.

It's no-brainer because Xenomorphs are ancient species. David didn't create them. If he did it would kill all the mystery about Alien universe and Scott knows that. For that reasons he repeats like mantra the same thing: who created them and why? Those two simple questions give an answer to one certain thing: it is not David for sure. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

It's like with the rumour about Daniel's being Ripley's mother. Some fans believed in that. I didn't. Scott is not that stupid. Some fans just create those crazy theories and then other fans have panic-attacks.

Ok, lets get this from the beginning, i dont know what the comics and all other sources say about this, but lets for instance see the space jockey in the comics before Prometheus came out, in some comics they looked ridiculous, and it just said that the people who made those comics didnt had a clue how to portrait the jockey, they just went with the Alien look.
So where and how did you guys came up with the fact that the xenomorph is ancient? i dont find it in any of the latest movie(s)
and i dont think Ridley wants that.

It's only my opinion about what Scott wants. I might be wrong and you might be right. What I'm saying is that when Scott is asked about Covenant he always repeats himself saying that: who created them and why? Then he says that these bio-mechanoids (he likes using that word) are weapons of mass destruction which means that they have been used before by some other species (Engineers?). For that reason David cannot be Xenomorph's creator. It would be illogical. Scott wants to go big. Epic. He wants to extend that Alien mythos and David being responsible for Xenomorph creation doesn't fit into that idea. That's what I think.

Its not about me or my ego my friend, as in right or wrong.
Its just ive find myself being obsessed with this and then i just said to myself,
what are the facts and what direction is he going with this, im having deja vu as before Prometheus came out we all where speculating and stuff, but ironically we were wrong... so wrong.
If the case would be that it is about the story and the origins, then why kill off Shaw and move on with David and his goodie bag of horrors,
The engineers in Prometheus failed at their creations wich turned against them, i assume.
It could also be that the real real jockey paid a visit to their temples, but i think that is wishfull thinking, and it will never happen.
I forgot where i was going at but my conclusion is: the mystery died with Prometheus, its almost a fact we have to start realising.
Humans, androids, engineers and xenomorphs, thats all we are gonna get out of this.
So im hoping you guys are right about ancient and stuff and i am wrong.

[newagescamartist]

I'm not completely sold on the ship from Alien being ancient. If it is, that's cool, but if David is the creator of the xenomorph, that's cool also. What we know thus far from Prometheus: David is certainly not the creator of the catalyst. Tweaking an already existing beast and adding bio-mech to it is kind of a nice and nightmarish touch imo. This series has to build up to Alien so it's probable that we won't actually see the finished product beast until we watch Alien ( if we're watching the prequels into the originals ).