Lose/Lose situation? *Spoiler Alert*

[agentman]

If you do not want spoilers pertaining to AVP:R, please do not read this thread.


One movie, was on my mind when I walked into the theater on opening day for AVP:R.  No, it wasn't the first AVP.  It was Transformers.  The reason this movie came to mind was because the writers for that film did something that totally ruined it.  They thought viewers would get a kick out of having the humans become the center of the plot's focus.  Boy likes girl, Sector 7, Marine Rifle squad, super smart computer hacker chick, and a fat black dude dancing on DDR was not the vision I had for that movie.  Transformers was just a Dawson's Creek episode that was rudely interrupted by giant robots in the end. 

That was my fear coming into the movie.  I had a bad feeling that writers were starting to buy into the human element, in films that feature fictional characters that in all honesty deserve the majority of screen time.  Needless to say I was not disappointed with AVP:R in this regard.  The humans served one purpose in that film, to die.  Yes, they had a few filler scenes where Ricky is getting pounded on by jocks and how his brother is a rehabilitated X-con, but no on more than what you would see in a slasher film. 

When I walk into a film called ALIENS v.s. Predator, I only want to see one thing.  Xenomorhps and Predators clashing with one another.  Throw some humans in for body count purposes, but give the screen time to the Aliens and Predator(s).  Then I started reading some reviews, where people ultimately summarize the Alien and Predator franchises as both "dead".  I won't lie, the first AVP was horrible, but this installment was entertaining enough, yet the reviewers still came to this conclusion.  They said none of these installments will come close to the magic of Ridley or Cameron.

And I'm thinking....is that possible?  What made the originals great?  A lot of aspects come into play here, but I'm only going into one.  The fact is, the original Alien and Predator films had one advantage...they could actually develop the human characters.  How a single Predator or Alien interacts with the environment and the people within it give the directors a lot of room for creativity.

Now let's go to AVP:R.  What if the Brothers decided to add in 30 minutes of screen time to the relationship between Dallas and Ricky?  What if we got to hear, from the first cop Wolf killed, a "tearful scene" of him talking to his wife?  Would you care?  Would you feel "closer" to them somehow?   No, you'd probably be like me, show me some Aliens and Preds.

Is it possible to make a meaningful Alien v.s. Predator film, without detracting from it's premise?  Only way I could see it done is if the human element was removed completely and you instead humanize the Predators, which I personally wouldn't like too much. 

What do you all think?  If you center the story around the humans (Transformers) you lose.  If you center the story around Aliens and Predators going at it, you lose (not Ridley approved).

[wolfboy]

If you center the story around interesting characters, it'll work. Nobody's complaining about Ripley, Dutch, or Harrigan.

[agentman]

If you center the story around interesting characters, it'll work. Nobody's complaining about Ripley, Dutch, or Harrigan.

But is it possible to create interesting characters in an "X vs X" film?  The premise of the title demands that two sides are clashing.  I feel if a director tried to create interesting characters, how far could it go before it detracted to what the film was about?

[Remonster]

If you center the story around interesting characters, it'll work. Nobody's complaining about Ripley, Dutch, or Harrigan.

But is it possible to create interesting characters in an "X vs X" film?  The premise of the title demands that two sides are clashing.  I feel if a director tried to create interesting characters, how far could it go before it detracted to what the film was about?

Yes, It is possible. The film should be about humans getting caught between these two monsters fighting. Not the necessarily the two monsters duking it out for two hours.

[wolfboy]

The characters in this film were under-developed forms of an ex-convict brother that didn't want his younger bro to make the same mistakes and a mother that was detached from her daughter. That's about as detracted as you could get in a movie about monsters battling each other. If the characters can fit into the storyline without looking like they're there just for the sake of having humans in the movie, it'll work out fine.

EDIT: It might've helped slightly if they chose to focus more on maybe two characters, like Dallas and the sheriff. That might have made a bigger impact when they decided to go separate ways later in the movie. Or they could've built up Kely/Molly/her husband relationship and have the father die much later on in the film. Instead, we have a human sub-plot about Dallas/Ricky and his girl problems.

[Uncanny Antman]

I don't get why people are always clamouring for a characterless Versus film.

You shouldn't be asking for no humans, you should be asking for interesting humans.

Alien is the perfect example.  You know exactly what you need to about the crew of the Nostromo.  There's very little info on any of them outside of the scope of the film. 

But are they interesting characters?  Yes. 
Do you root for them?  Yes. 
Are you shocked or scared for them in the situation?  Yes.

Good characters sell the horror.  Poor characters only serve to highlight the limitations of a bad film.

[TheAncientEnemy]

Good point. We really don't know a great deal about the Nostromo crew but due to the direction and acting we feel that we "know" enough about them to get a feel for their lives and get to like them.

There is no shallow little love affair. Kain is not a father figure for Dallas. These annoying little devices are checked at the door and instead we have some really believable characters that, through the magic of good film making, we know little about but care a great deal for.

[The Chibi Kiriyama]

It is not necessarily that Fox lacks the testicular fortitude to make a human-less film so much as it is good sense on their part to realize that a versus film where it's just Aliens and Predators fighting would get very monotonous. Like Uncanny has said, the solution isn't in getting rid of the human element; it's in crafting interesting characters.