Spoilers: Xenomorph origin revealed

[Corporal Hicks]

I don't see how they can make two more movies just about David perfecting the Xenomorph. They'll have to include something else to make it more interesting. But what?

I don't know. Maybe I'm completely wrong and they'll still purely focus on David and his creations. I really hope not though.

We've still got to bring in the real Space Jockeys! (I hope  ) Unless something's changed, Scott was still interested in "who made the Engineers" and hopefully the Alien's biomechanical nature will come via the Jockeys and not some combination of the proto-Aliens and David.

What this 'explanation' fails to address is the fact that the basic genetics of the Xeno are already in existence. The mural and the Deacon are testament to this. David isn't creating anything at all - he's clearly playing around with variations. Look at all the different breeds of dog we have - we're responsible for that through selective breeding. I think this is what David is doing - selective breeding of the 'Morph genome. If he's responsible for the Xeno (which is essentially a Deacon with armor) I think that's actually pretty cool and cruelly ironic at the same time.

This still leaves the question - where did the 'Morphs come from originally. And it also rules out the silly claim that they didn't evolve - the fact that they're adapting to new hosts and environments is what evolution is, through and through.

I'm hoping the later films address this in some fashion or another. I know I've said it previously but Covenant very much seems like Prometheus (Take 2) to me so we're restarting with the more obvious Alien origins.

Didn't Ridley recently say something along the lines that an AI can't be originally creative?

He certainly did. I brought that quote up in my news post about it. That's why I think this concept of David recreating or just slightly altering an existing formula has some credibility.

[OneWhoLaughs]

If this is the origin story of the Alien, how come the engineer on LV-426 was fossilized? Wouldn't it have taken longer than ~30 years, for the chestbursted engineer to become a fossil? And therefore, wouldn't that mean the xenomorphs existed prior to the events of Covenant? Since they need a living host to incubate? 

[Dangerous Days]

If this is the origin story of the Alien, how come the engineer on LV-426 was fossilized? Wouldn't it have taken longer than ~30 years, for the chestbursted engineer to become a fossil? And therefore, wouldn't that mean the xenomorphs existed prior to the events of Covenant? Since they need a living host to incubate? 

It was mummified I think. I don't expect these films will lead to the Jockey on LV-426. I suspect it will just be hinted at by other events.

You could argue it already was by the events on LV-223.

[shawsbaby]

If this is the origin story of the Alien, how come the engineer on LV-426 was fossilized? Wouldn't it have taken longer than ~30 years, for the chestbursted engineer to become a fossil? And therefore, wouldn't that mean the xenomorphs existed prior to the events of Covenant? Since they need a living host to incubate? 

I've always assumed the Space Jockey looked fossilized because it was 2,000 years old. I don't think Shaw realizing the outbreak happened 2,000 years ago in the temple was supposed to suggest anything Space Jesus-esque, but rather imply what we saw in Alien was super old. Coupled with the fact that the Engineers we saw in the big pile all had their chests burst open, I think that's the end of that mystery.

Whether or not they choose to reiterate any of this in future movies, time will tell, but the literal question of who and how old that Jockey was in Alien was, to my mind, definitively answered in that hologram flashback in Prometheus. Additionally, I've always thought, size-wise, the dead bodies of the Engineers and the size of the holograms looked much larger than the size of the Engineer who wakes up at the end of the movie, which I can also allow to satisfy  the question of how large Engineers are/can be (variations, etc.).

[OneWhoLaughs]

Dallas specifically says it's fossilized, and even if these movies don't directly lead up to the jockey. If the xenomorphs don't yet exist by the time of Alien Covenant, it does not make sense that an engineer would snag some, die/crash on LV-246 and then fossilize in < 30 years. It just doesn't add up.

[Dangerous Days]

Dallas specifically says it's fossilized, and even if these movies don't directly lead up to the jockey. If the xenomorphs don't yet exist by the time of Alien Covenant, it does not make sense that an engineer would snag some, die/crash on LV-246 and then fossilize in < 30 years. It just doesn't add up.

I know he said fossilised, but it's a good job he was a spaceship captain and not an archaeologist, because it's clearly not a fossil.

I think the line was just a continuity mistake, left over from an older idea they had to save money, when they thought it would be too expensive to do the Space Jockey scene. When they were just going to have Dallas and co find a creature fossilised in the rocks instead.

[CainsSon]

as the article says, david might be recreating engineer's experiments, continuing them or "perfecting" them, but being the very creator of the xenomorph species i dont think so, given the deacon in prometheus exists, even if different looking, it already rules out that possibility, and the process, is already shown, an EGG(elizabeth shaw) produces the parasite(trilobite) that impregnates a host(last engineer) and then the creature emerges when ready(deacon and though way bigger and more developed than the usual xenomorphs, iit woulcc be the same case as the runner alien that develops further before bursting out of its host)

question is, WHY, then hwy is he reconstructed, if i were shaw i woudltn even think about letting "it" do the same again(given that he was te one who infected her boyfriend to begin with)

I think the idea is also that we are 'Perfecting' and 'recreating' David in Walter. This isn't a mistake. I think this reflection is what Ridley Scott is interested in. David is recreating/perfecting his creation, much in the same way we are recreating/perfecting the androids. Perhaps the idea is for us to question why we make the changes we do to the David model - to make it LESS human,  to make people less uncomfortable. In David's case, he is also making the monster less animal, and more - - ?

I think this is why scott keeps talking about what our creation would create. And who made it and why? I think he is also meaning for us to ask, why we create things the way we do and why would we make the changes we'd make. From David to Walter - Does this make us more like Gods or Monsters? What if our gods wanted to make changes to us? What does that make them? And then trying to suggest that Gods and monsters are created within the same dilemma of the perspective and needs of its creator and not clouded by morality.
If we can just go back and take the humanity out of the Android. What does that make us to the android? A God? A Monster? IN this case DAVID is said to be more human than before. What message is that sending to our creation, if we don't care about taking away its humanity? And how would that affect David's decisions when he decided to create something?

Its interesting.

[episodenone]

Isn't is simply possible that on an alien planet with unique atmospheric conditions that fossilization can take place within its own set of physics?  Why are we obsessing over what stage of fossilization Dallas claimed he saw on LV-426 --- what if Dallas was completely wrong?  What credentials did he have for making that assumption = fact?
The murals are the key -- they are ancient.  The Aliens existed for a looooong time as did the Engineers.  Occam's Razor my friends.

Furthermore -- in my humble experience on planet earth and in internet forums dedicated to movie franchises -- 98% of all fan theories turn out to be false.

Of course we all have a choice as to what we want to fit in our "head canon" -- Star Wars less so now that Disney rebooted it -- but Alien / Pred   There is no reason why, if you don't like whatever turns out to be new in Covenant that you can't simply pretend you died last year and the new mythos additions never existed for you. 

My guess -- considering the ancient nature of the Engineers and the Goo -- Aliens of all types exist throughout the cosmos.

All David will end up doing is adding the "Mech" to the Bio-Mech.  Not creating the Alien from scratch.  This actually adds more gravitas [in my opinion] to Shaw wanting to meet her maker.  It's a vicious circle of life where makers and "mades" are yinning and yanging from Engineers to Humans / Spores / Aliens to Androids to New Breeds of Aliens who destroy ecosystems until Predators come and wipe them out in order for Engineers to re-seed life on that planet.  Easy-peasy, no?

And if, for some odd reason, you are so put off by David having such a major role in things of this nature -- read this:  Elon Musk doesn't think it's a stretch at all and even see AI being this ingenious as inevitable.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

[Dangerous Days]

Isn't is simply possible that on an alien planet with unique atmospheric conditions that fossilization can take place within its own set of physics?

But the Space Jockey is not a fossil. It's the mummified or skeletal remains of an alien pilot sat in the flight seat of his spacecraft.

[episodenone]

Isn't is simply possible that on an alien planet with unique atmospheric conditions that fossilization can take place within its own set of physics?

But the Space Jockey is not a fossil. It's the mummified or skeletal remains of an alien pilot sat in the flight seat of a spacecraft.

Fossilized = Mummified = Skeletalized = Remains --- Until Explicitly Re-Stated by a character with the requisite Scientific / Archaeological knowledge in a Film --- it's just a Mining Crew's opinion that we have.

[Dangerous Days]

Isn't is simply possible that on an alien planet with unique atmospheric conditions that fossilization can take place within its own set of physics?

But the Space Jockey is not a fossil. It's the mummified or skeletal remains of an alien pilot sat in the flight seat of a spacecraft.

Fossilized = Mummified = Skeletalized = Remains --- Until Explicitly Re-Stated by a character with the requisite Scientific / Archaeological knowledge in a Film --- it's just a Mining Crew's opinion that we have.

Precisely. You've just made my point for me... 'Appears Fossilized'... It's not a fossil.

Dallas was a spaceship captain not an archaeologist.

[CainsSon]

Isn't is simply possible that on an alien planet with unique atmospheric conditions that fossilization can take place within its own set of physics?

But the Space Jockey is not a fossil. It's the mummified or skeletal remains of an alien pilot sat in the flight seat of a spacecraft.

Fossilized = Mummified = Skeletalized = Remains --- Until Explicitly Re-Stated by a character with the requisite Scientific / Archaeological knowledge in a Film --- it's just a Mining Crew's opinion that we have.

Precisely. You've just made my point for me... 'Appears Fossilized'... It's not a fossil.

Dallas was a spaceship captain not an archaeologist.

RIGHT ON! And building on your point about ARCHAEOLOGY - Its also a bit ridiculous that people are obsessing over this one line of dialogue because, literally in the same scene Kane says that the Egg Chamber is in 'A Cave of some sort" and nobody has ever obsessed over the idea. and in most cases have blatantly ignored that the character THINKS he is in a "CAVE" but holy crap Dallas said the Space Jockey is "fossilized"
so back the f**k up Ridley Scott.
We accept it because we assume Kane and the rest of them just don't know what they are seeing. They are just speculating.

I like the idea of the Space Jockey and that ship being both a different species than the Engineers and ANCIENT. But that liine of dialogue isn't enough to insist that it can't end up being something else. Lets worry about then writing something good. Not that all the details match your preferred version of what you love.

[D. Compton Ambrose]

I could see the canon being expanded to include two 'sub-types' of the same organism.

Much in the same way there are dogs and wolves, the Engineer/David project is the 'dog' of the Xenomorphs - it reproduces by turning people into eggs. Then you could have the real ones that have existed since the beginning of time. The 'Hive'. A superorganism of Lovecraftian mystery and enigma, and was ultimately what the Engineers and David attempted to 'weaponize' or 'recreate', resulting in a second type of Alien. Or it could be that the Engineers and the Space Jockeys are two different species that created/weaponized two versions of the same 'perfect' organism.

[episodenone]

Sorry Dangerous Days -- I didn't realize we were agreeing with each other! 

CainsSon is right too -- about one thing -- what dialogue we choose to pick at and mull over and discuss for 10, 20, 30 years...  And what we somehow ignore.  Oddly - we often all seem to pick the same dialogue to nit pick!

However - as far at SJ = Engineer --- or what is being suggested here and there -- that they are not the same... until something incredibly surprising occurs in A:C or whatever comes next -- I think the case is closed and jammed shut.  They are one in the same and Zero evidence exists to the contrary.

[skhellter]

He certainly did. I brought that quote up in my news post about it. That's why I think this concept of David recreating or just slightly altering an existing formula has some credibility.

Ridley is also saying (in every interview) that Covenant will reveal "who created the Alien and why". He said it wasnt the Engineers.
And now there's this new clip about David and the egg....
So that's probably a vain hope, Hicks.

David will be responsible for the eggs in LV-426.


How they'll link all of this back up to Alien? Well...
The Derelict probably crashed around the same time of the disaster on the LV223 facility...
David will probably travel to LV-426 at some point, find the ship and place the eggs there... he'll probably use the colonists of the Covenant to create the eggs. (there's about 2000 of them in cryo). He might even be the one responsible for setting up the Derelict's distress signal. Sequel to Covenant will probably take place in LV-426.