A way to make Blomkamp's Alien work without retconning Alien 3 or Resurrection?

Started by Perfect-Organism, May 18, 2016, 02:47:00 AM

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A way to make Blomkamp's Alien work without retconning Alien 3 or Resurrection? (Read 35,382 times)

SiL

Quote from: Kelgaard on Jun 08, 2016, 07:34:42 PM
It is different.  We're not pulling characters at random, just the ones Aliens told us survived.  Frost or Lambert would require an explanation because they died in-story.   But with Newt, just scrap A3 and you're all set.  Get it?  She's not resurrected because she was never dead in the first place. As intended. No explanation required.
It's not different. The story that has been told previously, in total, includes the fact Hicks and Newt died. We can easily bring back Lambert if we start our movie before the Alien attacks her: we can easily bring back Frost if we start our new movie before the Marines enter the hive.

Just because there was a neat chapter break doesn't mean you're doing any less backflips to bring these people back.

Kel G 426

Backflips would be trying to explain it away, which people on both sides agree is worse than ignoring it.  That neat chapter break makes it all too easy.

The Alien Predator

Quote from: colonialmarine9 on Jun 08, 2016, 09:56:22 PM
Why should they recton Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection just because some people don't like them? Believe it or not but some people don't like Aliens because they think it differs too much from Alien. There are even people who don't like the original Alien. Should we recton those movies as well just because some people don't like them?

If they find a logical way to include these characters without recton  (which will be nearly impossible) then be my guest, but don't go around changing movies just because some people don't like it.Technically Colonial Marines is canon but not many people take it as such. If this movie comes out not everybody will like it . What if the movie sucks then what are we stuck with?

I just wish the Alien franchise could move on, for example imagine a movie with Aliens, Colonial Marines, and the UPP you don't need these old characters and still make a good movie that everybody can enjoy without changing the past movies.

^ This!

It literally boils down to "the last two films suck so therefore retcon".

Might as well reboot the entire franchise starting with Alien instead of cherry picking some films and disregarding others.

That would piss off everyone rather than a select group.  ;D

D. Compton Ambrose

CONSPIRACY THEORY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alien Resurrection was a CONSPIRACY.

:o

colonialmarine9

colonialmarine9

#154
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Jun 09, 2016, 03:50:58 AM
^ This!

It literally boils down to "the last two films suck so therefore retcon".

Might as well reboot the entire franchise starting with Alien instead of cherry picking some films and disregarding others.

That would piss off everyone rather than a select group.  ;D

I would love to see the public's response if the studio decided to do this.  :laugh:

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 08, 2016, 10:15:49 PM
I think fox no longer considers Aliens CM canon if I remember right.
I think you are right, Fox has abandoned it so they won't care if people consider it canon or not.

http://reflectionsonfilmandtelevision.blogspot.com/2015/03/dont-be-afraid-im-part-of-family-how.html

I think this article sums up why it is not a very good idea to bring back the old characters.

SiL

Quote from: Kelgaard on Jun 09, 2016, 03:44:08 AM
Backflips would be trying to explain it away, which people on both sides agree is worse than ignoring it.  That neat chapter break makes it all too easy.
You wouldn't need to explain restarting halfway through a movie if you didn't want to.

windebieste

That would be fine if EVERYONE agreed that the last 2 films suck.  That's just not the case, though.  You won't get everyone to agree to that.  Both the 3rd and 4rth movie have their fans, and they are legion.*

Personally, this is what I want to see:



Within this scenario, the currently long established main extant story arc is not interfered with.  'ALIEN' through 'ALIEN: Resurrection' and beyond is possible.  Also present is another branching series based off of 'ALIENS'.

Presented this way, it's clear there's room for 2 entire series happening here, co-existing side by side.  Fresh characters and situations in the 'ALIENS' time line and a 5th movie taking place after 'ALIEN: Resurrection' would be highly desirable.  Just about everyone would be happy with that. 

...but no, Blomkamp offers this scenario: 



Where resurrecting deceased characters not only wipes out half of the extant series, but also diminishes the potential for future stories based on the current time line. 

This eradication is out to reduce the capabilities of this Universe supporting multiple valid story arcs.  All this for the sake of reintroducing 3 deceased characters to be played by actors that haven't played these roles in decades.   It's almost a form of bigotry to pursue this path.   

Characters die in these movies.  It's what makes them valuable.  Conversely, it's what makes the Aliens such a threat. If we lose the diversity that this series has established over the past decades, then we start investing in mediocrity with banal overwrought heroes that really should be dead.  Ripley, Hicks and Newt shouldn't be exempt.  They will become meaningless as characters.  It's not like other characters aren't permitted to be developed within a branching story line. 

I'm all for an 'ALIENS' spin off story - and an entire 'ALIENS' themed series to stem from that.  As far as I am concerned, if Blomkamp were to embrace this philosophy, I'd be ecstatic!  I'd much rather see that happen than lose the diversity this series has established for itself.

-Windebieste.

*Unlike 'A:CM'.  No one will give a shit if that was retconned.  Fox wants to, anyway, from what I understand.  That's just about granted.

The Alien Predator

Winde for director 2019. Someone please give this man a small loan of a million dollars, I believe he can pull it off better than what Blomkamp has proposed.

whiterabbit

I don't get why people are so against having someone else take a crack at making a Ripley/Newt alien movie. I mean shit it's just story telling. All this canon shit is just an illusion. I mean really people.

D. Compton Ambrose

D. Compton Ambrose

#159
Quote from: windebieste on Jun 09, 2016, 10:22:59 AM
That would be fine if EVERYONE agreed that the last 2 films suck.  That's just not the case, though.  You won't get everyone to agree to that.  Both the 3rd and 4rth movie have their fans, and they are legion.*

Personally, this is what I want to see:



Within this scenario, the currently long established main extant story arc is not interfered with.  'ALIEN' through 'ALIEN: Resurrection' and beyond is possible.  Also present is another branching series based off of 'ALIENS'.

Presented this way, it's clear there's room for 2 entire series happening here, co-existing side by side.  Fresh characters and situations in the 'ALIENS' time line and a 5th movie taking place after 'ALIEN: Resurrection' would be highly desirable.  Just about everyone would be happy with that. 

...but no, Blomkamp offers this scenario: 



Where resurrecting deceased characters not only wipes out half of the extant series, but also diminishes the potential for future stories based on the current time line. 

This eradication is out to reduce the capabilities of this Universe supporting multiple valid story arcs.  All this for the sake of reintroducing 3 deceased characters to be played by actors that haven't played these roles in decades.   It's almost a form of bigotry to pursue this path.   

Characters die in these movies.  It's what makes them valuable.  Conversely, it's what makes the Aliens such a threat. If we lose the diversity that this series has established over the past decades, then we start investing in mediocrity with banal overwrought heroes that really should be dead.  Ripley, Hicks and Newt shouldn't be exempt.  They will become meaningless as characters.  It's not like other characters aren't permitted to be developed within a branching story line. 

I'm all for an 'ALIENS' spin off story - and an entire 'ALIENS' themed series to stem from that.  As far as I am concerned, if Blomkamp were to embrace this philosophy, I'd be ecstatic!  I'd much rather see that happen than lose the diversity this series has established for itself.

-Windebieste.

*Unlike 'A:CM'.  No one will give a shit if that was retconned.  Fox wants to, anyway, from what I understand.  That's just about granted.

What if Alien Resurrection - the plot, setting, everything - was a massive government cover-up? It's simple, no hamfisted explanation as to how Newt and Hicks are back (Hicks can be an android, and the girl in the cryo-tube in Alien 3 can simply be someone else) or how the Colonial Marines and the Company are back.

If you recall, only Call mentions '200 years ago' in the entire film.

She's also "Way too trusting". Perhaps she was working for whomever Perez was working for, and she was sent in to 'clean up' per se. Why is Call so interested in Ripley? Also, if you recall, Ripley wasn't even supposed to exist. They brought her back for the sole purpose of getting the embryonic Queen inside her.

So, basically:
1) Call is either fed misinformation, or is given orders to misconstrue the facts as much as possible (maybe it wasn't 200 years ago, maybe it was only 30. Maybe she wasn't sent there to kill the Aliens in the first place. Maybe she was sent there to kill Ripley. To bring Ripley back to Weyland-Yutani. The possibilities are endless.) and gain her trust.
2) The Auriga was a controlled experiment, one that the crew of the Betty (Except Call) and Ripley were not in on.
3) The events in Alien Resurrection take place a few decades after Aliens and Alien 3
4) Plus, if you add up the 57 years in cryo, plus 30, you get 87 years. That's almost a century. Perhaps Call even thought it was 100 years MORE than what it was. Perhaps government/corporate propaganda. An experiment with Call/Ripley, etc. Maybe the mainstream media thinks she died with the Nostromo? Maybe the events in Aliens and Alien 3 were ALSO part of the experiment? THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

Simply pretending Resurrection and Alien 3 never happened is one of the laziest, most idiotic things the director for the Fifth Film can do.
In fact, it is so lazy and idiotic it is painful to think about.


Quote from: The Alien Predator on Jun 09, 2016, 10:58:53 AM
Winde for director 2019. Someone please give this man a small loan of a million dollars, I believe he can pull it off better than what Blomkamp has proposed.

I AGREE! (Btw, nice Trump jab xD)

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Quote from: The Alien Predator on Jun 09, 2016, 10:58:53 AM
Winde for director 2019. Someone please give this man a small loan of a million dollars, I believe he can pull it off better than what Blomkamp has proposed.

Goodness gracious NO! Can you imagine an Alien movie with nothing but Kenner Aliens?  :P

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 08, 2016, 10:15:49 PM
I think fox no longer considers Aliens CM canon if I remember right.

Is there a website or something where Fox proclaims what is currently considered canon and what not?

Quote from: colonialmarine9 on Jun 09, 2016, 07:40:56 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Jun 09, 2016, 03:50:58 AM
It literally boils down to "the last two films suck so therefore retcon".

Might as well reboot the entire franchise starting with Alien instead of cherry picking some films and disregarding others.

That would piss off everyone rather than a select group.  ;D

I would love to see the public's response if the studio decided to do this.  :laugh:

Yeah, it wouldn't go down well would it? Unlike the current situation in which the majority of casual fans are applauding the idea of A3 and A:R being written-off.

The Alien Predator

LOL now I wanna see Winde make a movie on Kenner Aliens.  ;D

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Wait until Winde introduces the full Kenner Alien range to the canon, then you're going to hear bitching on these boards.  ;)

irn

How about Ripley and Hicks in Alien 5 are androids? Made to cover up the Hadleys Hope disaster and toe the company line about what happened. They learn about what happened, causes a conflict of interest, etc. etc. Just todays brainfart :D

windebieste

Got your interest? [CHECK!]

Got Kenner Aliens? [CHECK!]

Got the services of a Professional and qualified Intellectual Property Consultant required to appease the high demands and satisfy Fox requirements without receiving cease and desist order that WILL result in being comprehensively shut down in a moments notice?  [CHECK!]

OK!  We're set... Off to KickStarter we go! We can do this!   :laugh:

-Windebieste.




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