Intervacius-Raptus vs Tyranids

[Nightlord]

Behold! The xeno-nid 

Jokes aside surely the tyranids would win, say the Swarmlord showed up I don't think any alien could hope to take it down, or a Domimatrix or even just zoanthropes which could probably kill any alien, unless aliens have some psychic resistance ?

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

Behold! The xeno-nid 

Jokes aside surely the tyranids would win, say the Swarmlord showed up I don't think any alien could hope to take it down, or a Domimatrix or even just zoanthropes which could probably kill any alien, unless aliens have some psychic resistance ?

That is a nice picture.  One thing to point out is by the time a Swarmlord did show up there would be many Xenomorph-nids running around, the Swarmlord is very deadly but it has never faced any enemy so similar to it, and that is what makes it so deadly, it has all of its experiences of fighting other enemies storied in its head.  Some scare hybrids to think about would be the Colossal Ravager Carnifex, Carrier Biovores, Hive Defender Tyrannofex, or even the King or War Empress Hierophant.

One draw back the Tyranids would have to face is the fact the only take the genetic traits of organic creatures, Xenomporhs are Inorganic, there is a good chance that means the Nids would not get any traits from them.

As for psychic attacks their is only so many they can kill at one time, if the Domimatrix or the zonthropes are on a planet that the Xenomorphs are in control of, including its ecosystem, there will be countless Xenomorphs, not to mention that during the events of Aliens: Genocide that there so many Xenomorphs active on the surface of the planet that only the mountain tops can be seen. 

Another thing to point out is that Xenomorphs probably are not susceptible to the Tyranids warp overshadowing ability that can cause mass deaths.  The reason being is that Xenomorphs have no presences in the Warp.  Other creatures in there universe like the Humans Orks and Eldar, were made by the Old Ones to have a strong connection to the warp, in a since they have connection with activity that happens in the warp.  That being said that probably wouldn't stop a mind bolt from blowing up a Xenomorph Warrior.

PS I will not be able to make more comments until Monday see you all later!  I will write in full my reasons why I think Xenomorphs will win.

[Shasvre]

I don't really see any situations where a facehugger would be able to attach itself to a Tyranid creature. They would probably take a bite out of it if it came close, not caring if it killed them or not.

[chupacabras acheronsis]

and i doubt an infected Nid would get the chance to hatch. it would be eaten alive, along with the alien inside.

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

I don't really see any situations where a facehugger would be able to attach itself to a Tyranid creature. They would probably take a bite out of it if it came close, not caring if it killed them or not.

When the Tyranid is dead.  I would say 2 to 3 out of 10 times they could impregnate a live tyranid but most would probably be dead.  We know that Aliens can use dead hosts as seen in Alien 3 special edition and in AvP, AvP-R.

The bad thing about munching down on a facehugger is that in doing so it will almost certainly kill the Tyranid doing the biting.

and i doubt an infected Nid would get the chance to hatch. it would be eaten alive, along with the alien inside.

They normally do not eat their dead until the finale phases of planetary consumption.  Even then the bodies can be taken back to the hive.  Also another scary thing to think about is if this battle is on Xenomorph Prime or a battle that has the attention of the Queen Mother.  That would mean that once the Tyranid is impregnated it becomes a infectoid.

In the Aliens: Female Wars story the Queen Mother from across the galaxy was able to mentally control a lot of the humans left behind on earth.  Now as long as there is a synapse creature the Queen Mother probable cant take control of Tyranids but if they are impregnated is seem like a near grantee she could control them and or if the Synapse creature dies.

The first thing I would like to do is compare the Strength capabilities of the two Species.


Aliens vs Tyranids Strength.

1)Tyranids  Needless to say are very strong, they are able to fight even space marines with normal like weapons and pierce there armor.  However when dealing with Tanks super heaves and Titans they do have problems.  For instance a Land Raiders armor can withstand 1679000 p.s.i..  We know this because the Forge World Techmanuals go into detail on what the vehicles are capable of doing and how thick there armor is.  This is the equivalent of 1 foot and 2 inches of steel.  We know that most Tyranids unless armored with a Venom Cannon can not even damage 1 foot and 2 inches of steel.

Now as we get to0 the higher end targets that Tyranids fight we see them duking it out with Titans lightest of them having armor that is 60-mm - 120mm layered Ceramite and Adamantium).  Word of warning this estimate is wrong I made it stronger than it really is.  Adamantium is 9,490 times stronger than Conventional steel, based on the fact that the Landraidar has 91-95 mm of armor with the equivalent strength of 1 foot and 2 inches of steel.  In the diagram the only layer of Adamantium appears to be 1 mm thick, it is probably thicker but I wanted to give 40k the advantage.  The rest of the armor being 2 Ceramite layers, 1 Titanium/Plasteel layer, and 1Thermoplas layer.

Granted I made the psi higher than it would be.  The Armor of a Wolfhound can take 157,161,300,000 psi  Overall.   I will point out that the sides and back are weaker.

The Reaver is just 120mm of Ceramite and Adamantium so it would also be able to handle 157,161,300,000 p.s.i.

The Warlord would have around a 3rd more armor judging by the fact it is 33 meters tall as apposed to the Reaver being 22 meters tall.  So the Warlords armor can handle  209,548,400,000 p.s.i.

The Emperor Class is the biggest Imperial Class titian.  It stands at 55.5 meters tall which is 2 and 1/2 times bigger than the Wolfhound its armor would be able to withstand 392,903,250,000 p.s.i.

These are long fights, if Tyranids are able to take Titains out it take a lot more than one.

[Nightlord]

But unlike aliens, tyranids don't have to engage in melee.

I think in the end tyranids would win just because they have one thing no alien does, guns.
Dakka-fexes, Hive tyrants, Hive guards, warriors and raveners can all equip some extremely deadly gun-morphs, add to that sheer weight of numbers and the various bio-titans which have even bigger guns and the aliens just don't have a chance.

And also a tyranid invasion releases thousands of tyranid spores into the atmosphere to increase any vegetative growth and also to poison any defenders. I'd presume aliens would be affected by these spores, because in a comic (Nightmare Asylum I think) aliens were being killed by a fungus in their hive so the tyranid spores could probably affect them and kill them.

[chupacabras acheronsis]

an adult alien was crushed by the APC which weights 14 ton. on one wheel, that would mean one fourth of the vehicle's weight, 3,5 ton. that's what it takes to crack a xenomorph open. tyranids weight more than that. they could just step on the aliens.

their numbers depend on their capacity to infect it's prey, if they have a stable income of hosts to grow they will grow, but only to a size that allows them to coexist with the planet, as shown several times they prefer to lay low after they have secured themselves a territory, be it a jungle or a human city. but if tyranids show up and literally eat every viable biological lifeform at hand, and if they can't breed with tyranids themselves, they are simply f**ked and will be killed off eventually.

xenomorphs aren't on the same league, they aren't the same kind of threat. they aren't a relentless horde that can be mowed down continuously and still win. they use numbers when they have them, but their main tactics as it's shown are stealth, evasion and ambush. they are survivors. that's their talent. they are nigh impossible to get rid of. but they aren't strong on frontal all out war.

[The Runner]

Well maybe the facehuggers would make themselves get swallowed by the Tyranids like they did with that giant serpent in that one comic to get that Giant Alien.

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

2)Aliens

Aliens are powerful themselves.  In Aliens Human Based Warriors were able to destroy Steel doors that were 2 inches thick within 30-40 secondeds.  Those doors can handle 230,000 P.S.I. The doors at the End of the game play trailer for Colonial Marines that the Human based Warrior rammed through was around 4-5 inches which would mean they destroyed a door that can withstand 460,000 p.s.i. to 575,000 p.s.i. The Queen in that same video was able to destroy a wall that was at least one foot to two foot thick with ease.  That wall would have been able to withstand 1,380,000 P.S.I. to 2,760,000 P.S.I.


In Aliens we also see a Human based Warrior easily punch through a Armored Cortez window on the A.P.C..  Now I do not know the thickness of the window so I am going off the thickness of a Military ground vehicles that uses bulletproof glass.

They are 3 inch thick.  The Armored Quartz window would be able to withstand 480,000 P.S.I.. If it's 2 inch thick it would be 320,000 P.S.I. 1 inch 160,000 P.S.I.

http://www.quartz.com/gedata.html

Now what gets more interesting is when you examine the non-human born Aliens.  For instance the Alien Warriors from Xenomorph prime without trouble quickly rip through the hull of the ship used by the characters of Aliens: Female Wars.

Super Aliens aka Palintines easily destroyed the Armor used by the Marines in Aliens: Female Wars.  That armor was a lightened military version of the Powerloader.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior#Chosen_Protector

The Purple King was also so strong it was able to destroy lots of section of the base used in Aliens: Rogue including the area that contained a whole hive complete with Praetorians.  It did this very fast like nothing really was in its way.

Ravagers and Colossal Ravagers are known for have such strong and sharp blades that they slice up the hulls of Starships.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Ravager

The Titanium used in aliens like the steel is probably a lot better than what we have but I will use examples of the best stuff we have now.

The Titanium we use for Fighter Planes and ships is this.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTP641

This Titanium has a P.S.I. of 128,000.  There is no telling how thick the Armor is on ships in Aliens but its got to be thick.

Now that brings me to PredAliens.  They are alot grossly stronger than there human counterparts.  For instance the PredAlien Warrior from BG-386 was so strong it was able to shake a cavern with its blows
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/PredAlien_%28BG-386%29

Really any Alien that comes from something stronger than a human will be ultra stronger than a human based Warrior.

Just think how strong Whale Warriors are? 

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/bk_77_7/xenomorphs/108-423206/alien__brackensterror1/105-1421811/

P.S. Just think that is just the Warrior, think what a Ravager, Queen, Empress, King, Razor Claw ecct would be like! 

But unlike aliens, tyranids don't have to engage in melee.

I think in the end tyranids would win just because they have one thing no alien does, guns.
Dakka-fexes, Hive tyrants, Hive guards, warriors and raveners can all equip some extremely deadly gun-morphs, add to that sheer weight of numbers and the various bio-titans which have even bigger guns and the aliens just don't have a chance.

Yes they have guns, however so do Humans and Predators, and I might add they have much better aim than they do.

And also a tyranid invasion releases thousands of tyranid spores into the atmosphere to increase any vegetative growth and also to poison any defenders. I'd presume aliens would be affected by these spores, because in a comic (Nightmare Asylum I think) aliens were being killed by a fungus in their hive so the tyranid spores could probably affect them and kill them.

The Black mold you refer to only somewhat degrades their capabilities.  Their was one case when it did cause the death of Xenomorphs but that was under extreme circumstances.  Dr. Church tried to weaponize Black mold to kill Xenomorphs it never worked in the end though.

an adult alien was crushed by the APC which weights 14 ton. on one wheel, that would mean one fourth of the vehicle's weight, 3,5 ton. that's what it takes to crack a xenomorph open. tyranids weight more than that. they could just step on the aliens.

If you are talking about Tyranids that are in the high end of the med sized class than I would agree.  Ironically enough Human Born Alien Warriors are taller than Tyranid Warriors, and faster.  Unlike Aliens the Tyranids get slower the bigger they get.

One problem with the Tyranid up and stepping on them though is that it will lose its leg if it does this.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tyranid_Warrior#.TwudV4HQdME

their numbers depend on their capacity to infect it's prey, if they have a stable income of hosts to grow they will grow, but only to a size that allows them to coexist with the planet, as shown several times they prefer to lay low after they have secured themselves a territory, be it a jungle or a human city. but if tyranids show up and literally eat every viable biological lifeform at hand, and if they can't breed with tyranids themselves, they are simply f**ked and will be killed off eventually.

When it comes to Aliens they have shown and stated that when they have taken over a planet and its ecosystem they will allow the animals to live so they can make more of themselves.  All tough most stories do not focus on it, there are alot of planets that can not be taken back from Xenomorphs once the take over the ecosystem.
(Aliens vs Predator: Extinction)
(Aliens vs Predator: War)
(Aliens: Female Wars)
(Aliens: Genocide)
(Aliens: XenoGenesis)
(Aliens: Avenging Angel)

Avenging Angel is special in the fact that The Xenomorphs caused a universal wave of extinction, which would fit in with Mr. Scotts statement about them being the ultimate cleaners.

xenomorphs aren't on the same league, they aren't the same kind of threat. they aren't a relentless horde that can be mowed down continuously and still win.
they use numbers when they have them, but their main tactics as it's shown are stealth, evasion and ambush. they are survivors. that's their talent. they are nigh impossible to get rid of. but they aren't strong on frontal all out war.

On the contrary they are even in a lot of ways however Xenomorphs do have the overall advantage.  I will go into it further later.

We have seen Xenomorphs do the above, 'Monstrous Wave attacks with heavy losses and still win' (Aliens: XenoGenesis)  The main Characters could not take back the planet on Salazar VII.  Earth (Aliens: Female Wars)  The Predators in (Aliens vs Predator War) only survived because of the main character and in the end of the Aliens won humans escaped and Predators all died.  Of course this goes into what I am trying to point out in my posts.  Fighting non-human born Xenomorphs is extremely dangerous, that is why we hardly ever ever see Predators fight another type of Alien.  Predaliens are way to dangerous for them to deal with.

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

Next we look at the durability of the Aliens and the Tyranids.

Now I don't have calculations for most of the Tyranids except for ironically enough the War-Machine class.

The Barbed Hierodule for instances  has armor that is the equivalent of 4mm-90mm of steel.  That would mean in the weak parts of its armor it only can withstand up too 18400 P.S.I., at its strongest Points it would be at 414000 P.S.I.

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hierodule

As you can see this is the armor from a bio-warmachine, its going to be less effective the smaller the creature, not only that but Xenomorphs are seen destroying objects with a higher P.S.I..



Now if we take a look at Xenomorphs we will see they have nearly I identical protective capabilities.

The Queen in Aliens had a Power loader Drop on her from 12+ feet   It diffident even rupture her skin.
The Queen before she fought Ripley took a belt full of  M40 grenades.  The M40 launches a projectile with an explosive element comprised of a notched steel wire wrapped aro9und a filler of composition B15.  When detonated it spreads more than 300 fragments over a casualty radius of five meters.  This didn't really bother her.


We have seen at least one Alien Warrior take eight Pulse Rifle rounds before it died.

The Pulse Rifle fires a 10x24mm round, it has a Muzzle velocity of 840 m/s, Maximum range of 2,100 m.  Take in mind each shell is explosive and sends out steel fragments when detonated.

It takes nearly an entire clip from a M-16A2 which as a Muzzle velocity of 948 m/s
maximum range 3,600m.

The Empress in AvP-2 could take M83A2 Rockets and keep fighting.
Ravargers, Colossal Ravagers, Queens and War Empresses have even been able to take a few M83AM SADAR AMAG rounds.

Once it became clear that individually armored tank crew could survive a SADAR hit; the USCM redesigned the weapon to ensure destruction of both tank and crew. The result is the SADAR AMAG (Aerosol MAGnesium), a weapon that penetrates heavy armor and discharges multiple megathermal payloads in its interior. Naturally, it works quite well against Predators and Aliens, since it delivers a high impact detonation that exposes numerous targets to blast furnace temperatures.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/M83_SADAR

The creatures in between Warriors and Queens are extremely durable as well.  It takes Medium and or Heavy Weaponry to kill things like PredAliens, Praetorians, and the creatures bigger than Praetroians.

If that wasn't bad enough Aliens can evolve, adapt to situations when needed.  One example is the  Humans based Warrior Onslaught Genome.

When needed Human based Warriors can evolve to become more suitable for heavy assault. First it develops hardened chitinous ridges that enable it to penetrate tougher armors. Second it develops a redundant vascular life support system, enabling it to continue fighting even after sustaining crippling damage including limb loss. Third, it improves its already amazing abilities to regenerate itself with the add assistance from hive web. The Later two abilities combine to enable the creature to regenerate lost limbs and return to perfect health fast through sustained healing at the hive.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior#Onslaught_Genome

Oh and there is also the fact Aliens have very high endurance to heat, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, X-ray radiation.  This is the soul reason why they survived the Nuking of earth, Xenomorph Prime, and LV-426.  PredAliens are even more heat resistant, they can take multiple Plasma Caster bursts, and other heat based weapons.

The PredAliens because of selective evolution were a bit different than the normal PredAliens, if there is such a thing.

Fire Retardant SecretionsEdit

Although they lacked the protective armor of the Warrior, these PredAliens constantly secreted a flame retardant coating which absorbed heat, then evaporated, producing a flame-extinguishing cloud around the creature which rendered each PredAlien resistant to fire and most heat based weaponry.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/PredAlien_%28LV-742%29#Fire_Retardant_Secretions.

All and all protective wise they are pretty even, although I have not seen any references for Tyrandis being as resistant to heat based weaponry or radiations like Aliens are.

an adult alien was crushed by the APC which weights 14 ton. on one wheel, that would mean one fourth of the vehicle's weight, 3,5 ton. that's what it takes to crack a xenomorph open. tyranids weight more than that. they could just step on the aliens.

At first I did agree with you on this until I realized that velocity was not taken into account when this statement was made.  The Warrior had to be rammed before it ended up underneath the A.P.C., judging by how high it was standing and how low the body of the A.P.C. is. 

[The Runner]

Question is how would the xenos survive the countless tyranids