Intervacius-Raptus vs Tyranids

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

Ok this is a debate topic the conditions are as follows.

*This is a universal realistic conflict as apposed to a arena style vs match.
*This is a War of annihilation.
*Every type of canon Tyranid is involved and so is every type of canon Xenomorph , this includes the browns, whites, reds, yellows, hypothetical Xenomorphs, so on and so forth.
*Only canon tactics are to be used.

Sub battle
In addition to the battle above the Sub battle is the same as above except it includes the *3 Yellow Lantern Xenomorphs from Blackest Night, and the *Star Wars Xenomorphs from Coruscant nights.

Personally I think the Xenomorphs will win but I want to see what everyone else thinks before I write my reasons why.  I also want to see just how much everyone know about Xenomorphs and Tyranids.

[Shasvre]

In addition to the battle above the Sub battle is the same as above except it includes the *3 Yellow Lantern Xenomorphs from Blackest Night, and the *Star Wars Xenomorphs from Coruscant nights.

Never knew such existed. Do you have a picture or a link?

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the Tyranids would take this, on the account of them being vastly superior in numbers if nothing else.

Edit: Found the picture, don't think that's supposed to be an actuall Alien though. Probably just the artist having some fun.

[RagingDragon]

In addition to the battle above the Sub battle is the same as above except it includes the *3 Yellow Lantern Xenomorphs from Blackest Night, and the *Star Wars Xenomorphs from Coruscant nights.

Never knew such existed. Do you have a picture or a link?

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the Tyranids would take this, on the account of them being vastly superior in numbers if nothing else.

Edit: Found the picture, don't think that's supposed to be an actuall Alien though. Probably just the artist having some fun.

Well it's kicking that Green Lanterns ass!

I'm a big Warhammer fan, but I didn't play Tyranid so my exposure to them was limited to the core rulebooks and browsing through their stuff in the store.  They always had such wicked artwork, and since they were the official Warhammer 40k Xenomorph-type race (ala the Zerg) I liked to read about them.

From what I know, this would come down to surface battles unless our Xenos were somehow able to infiltrate their space-faring vessels.  Seeing how the Alien has done just this on more than one occasion, I believe it would happen, but this whole conflict would be insanely interesting...

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

In addition to the battle above the Sub battle is the same as above except it includes the *3 Yellow Lantern Xenomorphs from Blackest Night, and the *Star Wars Xenomorphs from Coruscant nights.

Never knew such existed. Do you have a picture or a link?

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the Tyranids would take this, on the account of them being vastly superior in numbers if nothing else.

Edit: Found the picture, don't think that's supposed to be an actuall Alien though. Probably just the artist having some fun.

Interesting, you think that Tyranids numbers would allow them to win    Well I will wait for more replies before I go into detail thank you for your input.

Yes I have the other Three Xenomoprhs here we go!

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/bk_77_7/xenomorphs/108-423206/green_lanterns_vs_sinestro_corps_07/105-1004604/

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/bk_77_7/xenomorphs/108-423206/yellowalien/105-1004620/

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/bk_77_7/xenomorphs/108-423206/1421214_xenomorph_sinestro_super/105-1421619/

The last one is a direct copy of Xenomporph Warriors in the last story of Aliens vs Predator Omnibus 1.

Also there is a single Predator that has shown up over and over again in the stories with and without his mask.

Here is his page on the c.v.
http://www.comicvine.com/sinestro-corps-predator/29-57104/

Well it's kicking that Green Lanterns ass!

I'm a big Warhammer fan, but I didn't play Tyranid so my exposure to them was limited to the core rulebooks and browsing through their stuff in the store.  They always had such wicked artwork, and since they were the official Warhammer 40k Xenomorph-type race (ala the Zerg) I liked to read about them.

From what I know, this would come down to surface battles unless our Xenos were somehow able to infiltrate their space-faring vessels.  Seeing how the Alien has done just this on more than one occasion, I believe it would happen, but this whole conflict would be insanely interesting...

Welcome to my first topic, yes this fight will be crazy BAHAHAHAHWWWWWW

[Shasvre]

Interesting, you think that Tyranids numbers would allow them to win    Well I will wait for more replies before I go into detail thank you for your input.

Yes, but numbers aren't their only strenght. They have psychers, living ships and creatures as big as skyscrapers. Not to mention that they quickly evolve to adapt to new situations.

[chupacabras acheronsis]

pretty much anything in the WH40K universe is so damn overpowered that putting it against a more realistic monster like the xenomorph is unfair.

Tyranids are such a massive force they can kill only with the combined brainwaves of their whole species. they don't take traits of their hosts, they learn about them and then telepathically communicate this to the rest of the species and then they all evolve instantly to face the threat. it's ridiculous.

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

pretty much anything in the WH40K universe is so damn overpowered that putting it against a more realistic monster like the xenomorph is unfair.

Tyranids are such a massive force they can kill only with the combined brainwaves of their whole species. they don't take traits of their hosts, they learn about them and then telepathically communicate this to the rest of the species and then they all evolve instantly to face the threat. it's ridiculous.

What if I told you that WH40K was not as powerful as they make them out to be in the novels?  Its actually quite disappointing, the writes of the series have said that they purposely made the novels unreliable as a source.

www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=494

QUOTE (Marc Gascoigne - Publisher @ The Black Library and Black Flame)

Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.

I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.

Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".

But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.

It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.

Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.

To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you.

The best sources really is the game manuals, movies (Both Game and actual) and things that GWS says about things they are asked question about, like for instance the overall damage of a standard bolter round is equal to 2/3 the damage a Slug from a shot gun.

Anyway I would like to see ac couple more comments before I go into detail of why I think Xenomorphs would win.

Interesting, you think that Tyranids numbers would allow them to win    Well I will wait for more replies before I go into detail thank you for your input.

Yes, but numbers aren't their only strenght. They have psychers, living ships and creatures as big as skyscrapers. Not to mention that they quickly evolve to adapt to new situations.

Yes and so does the Xenomorphs, except ships... for now.   

[chupacabras acheronsis]

so you're saying there is no freaking way in hell we could ever hope to accurately toll the real capabilities of the Tyranids?

and you're still asking this question. well, i think that quote speaks for it: "Yes and no". or perhaps, "sometimes".

[OmegaZilla]

Both races are hopelessly wiped out by Cthulhu and the Cthulhu spawn.

[Hive Tyrant]

Tyranids depend on melee combat a lot (their ranged weaponry, like the fleshboring beetles fired by a Devourer cannon, might not be effective against an acid-filled creature like a xenomorph) so an important question to ask would be "Are Tyranids acid-proof?"

Some of them use acid weaponry themselves (the Hierophant bio-titan creature fires salvos of acid from his main "weapon" if I recall correctly) but they could be vulnerable to it themselves. That gives the xenomorphs a bit of an advantage. A tremendous creature like said aforementioned Hierophant or Carnifex could potentially by killed by climbing on top of its head (and xenomorphs are fast and agile enough to do this, I think) and simply bleeding on it.

But who knows. Tyranids are a massively varied and ever-changing species (collection of species if the Imperium's xeno-biologists are right). Good question though.

In any case, Tyranids can reproduce infinitely faster than xenomorphs. The xenos need living hosts while the Tyranids make due with any kind of bio-matter at all, including plantlife.

[Shasvre]

Yes and so does the Xenomorphs, except ships... for now. 

Never heard of a Xeno that big. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

What do we know about the Xeno numbers by the way? A Hive Fleet for example is billions upon billions of creatures.

As for how dangerous the Tyranids are, the codex gives a pretty good idea about that. And even if it's not up there with some of the novels, it's still insanely dangerous. Heck, in some cases it's even more so than the novels make them out to be.

Also, in response to Hive Tyrant's post. If the acid blood became an issue for the Tyranids, I think they would evolve some protection for it pretty quickly. When they can adapt even to biological weapons, I don't think the acid is gonna give them much trouble after a while.

[Hive Tyrant]

Yes and so does the Xenomorphs, except ships... for now. 

Never heard of a Xeno that big. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

What do we know about the Xeno numbers by the way? A Hive Fleet for example is billions upon billions of creatures.

As for how dangerous the Tyranids are, the codex gives a pretty good idea about that. And even if it's not up there with some of the novels, it's still insanely dangerous. Heck, in some cases it's even more so than the novels make them out to be.

Also, in response to Hive Tyrant's post. If the acid blood became an issue for the Tyranids, I think they would evolve some protection for it pretty quickly. When they can adapt even to biological weapons, I don't think the acid is gonna give them much trouble after a while.

True. And given their numbers I doubt the xenomorphs can kill all the Tyranids in that timeframe.

Another thing to mention is that the Tyranids are an extragalactic threat. Even if the xenomorphs were to kill all the Tyranids in this galaxy, there are untold numbers of Tyranids living in at least one other galaxy.

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

Never heard of a Xeno that big. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

Sure thing, I will go shortest to largest.

*First we got the PredAliens specifically the Pred Aliens of AvP War, AvP3, and the most lethal kind the Pred Alien of LV-746.  They do not stop growing ever they just get bigger and bigger.

*Next we got Praetorians, but unfortunately it hard to gauge the actual size because most of the ones we see come from humans, if we see one that comes from other animals or aliens it will be much bigger or smaller depending on the thing it is based off of .


* Next we have the Razor Claw which is absurdly fast and is a little bigger than human born Praetorians.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Razor_Claws

*Next we have the defender which is abit bigger than a Razor Claw.

*Next is the Queen unless it comes from a non-human

*Next we have the Ravager and Colossal Ravager. unless it comes from a non-human
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Ravager

*Next we have the Empress, War Empress, Purple King, and White King.  Again this is based off the ones that come from humans.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Empress
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/White_hybrid

* *I will point out at this point that we have aliens that are taller than the bio-titans Scythe Hierodule and Barbed Hierodule, Dominatrix, Trannofex, Dactylis, Tervigon, Exocrine, Mawloc, Trygon, Harridan,  and Norn-Queen.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hierodule#.TwYvhVbQdME
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dominatrix
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyrannofex
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tervigon
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Mawloc
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Trygon
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Norn-Queen

*Next we have a crocodilian Xenomoprh Warrior.  I want to stress right here that this is an example of how a different species can give you a radical different sized Alien.  I think that because of the nature of Reptilians, and then having a Xenomorph take those traits would make any Reptile born Xenomoprh monsterishly huge.  Imagine what a Queen crocodilian Xenomorph or a Ravager crocodilian Xenomorph would be like.
Oh and it grew to this size with in an hour to couple of hours.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111017144247/avp/images/9/9c/Monstersbeasts.jpg

*Next Pilot Alien Warrior
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Jockey_born_Xenomorph

*Next we have the Reaper Xenomorph Warriors and Reaper Queen.
(If you request a picture I will up load it.)
The Queen in a monstrous abomination that looks like a mix between an Alien warrior and Venom from Marvel comics.

*Next is the biggest seen yet Xenomorph Whale Warriors from Brakens world.
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/bk_77_7/xenomorphs/108-423206/alien__brackensterror1/105-1421811/

**I Must at this time point out that just the Warrior itself is so big that it Dwarfs the largest Tyranid bio-titian Hierphant.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hierophant#Epic_Scale

The Whale Warrior  Alien is also so big it is bigger than the Imperial Warhound, and Reaver Titains.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111020080322/warhammer40k/images/d/dc/HierophantScale.jpg

Now if they have a Ravager Whale Alien, Queen or War Empress it will more than likely be as big if not bigger than an Emperor class titian and much much much bigger than the largest bio-titain the Hierphant.

What do we know about the Xeno numbers by the way? A Hive Fleet for example is billions upon billions of creatures.

The Xenomorphs control a lot of planets.  Once they have taken control of a planets ecosystem they will allow enough of the population to survive so that the Xenomorphs can continuously make more of themselves (AvP-E).  Also once they have control of the planet even a full on nuking with hundreds of nukes will not kill them off as was seen in (Aliens Female Wars) and on.  It is next to impossible for worlds to be reclaimed once the Xenomorphs have taken over the ecosystem.  For instance the planet Salazar VII was taken and held by the Xenomorphs in (Aliens Omibus 6).  No matter what the Hero Characters did they could not take back that planet.  As for the Aliens quote unquote home world, they showed that once the all the Aliens were out of hibernation that not a single bit of the planet can be seen except for the tops of the mountains themselves (Aliens Genocide)

Problem with Xenomorphs is that if they end up on a planet with no exosystem with life they probably want reproduce unless they came from a species other than human that always them to bypass the Queen faze.

Also, in response to Hive Tyrant's post. If the acid blood became an issue for the Tyranids, I think they would evolve some protection for it pretty quickly. When they can adapt even to biological weapons, I don't think the acid is gonna give them much trouble after a while.

They probably would not adapt to the acid for these reasons.
1)They have not adapted to protect themselves from there own acidic weapons.
2)The IOM has found that Acid is one of the most lethal weapons to use against them.  This acid is used in a Special Bolter shell know as the Hellfire round.  It consists of thousands of needles full of mutagenic acid encased in a ceramic shell.  Tyranids have not adapted to this.
3)Xenomorphs adapt themselves and can make there blood more acidic than normal and or do other things.  (Aliens Omnibus 6: Once in A Lifetime).

As for how dangerous the Tyranids are, the codex gives a pretty good idea about that. And even if it's not up there with some of the novels, it's still insanely dangerous. Heck, in some cases it's even more so than the novels make them out to be.

Yes they both are very dangerous creatures one would not want to fight unless they were crazy or where going to die a worse death.

One thing to remember is that the Aliens have killed all advanced life in the Galaxy/Universe all at once (Avenging Angel) and has done what all its admirers have not, and that is make it to earth and kill everything there.   

so you're saying there is no freaking way in hell we could ever hope to accurately toll the real capabilities of the Tyranids?

and you're still asking this question. well, i think that quote speaks for it: "Yes and no". or perhaps, "sometimes".

It could be worse, Trekkies have to deal with the fact multiple people are in charge of their canon, and those people in charge apparently do not like each other.

Both races are hopelessly wiped out by Cthulhu and the Cthulhu spawn.

Nay Cthulhu gets eaten by both the Xenomorphs and Tyranids during tea time.  His last words are "ITS A TRAP!" 

[Shasvre]

It's hard to argue the case for Tyranids given the facts you've just provided me with, so I'm just gonna bow before your superior knowledge in the Xenoverse and let you know that was some very interesting reading you just provided me with.

[KingAngel ofthe Outergulf]

Tyranids depend on melee combat a lot (their ranged weaponry, like the fleshboring beetles fired by a Devourer cannon, might not be effective against an acid-filled creature like a xenomorph) so an important question to ask would be "Are Tyranids acid-proof?"

It is ironic that one of the weapons of choice used by the Empire is a acid based weapon (Hellfire rounds).  Also they themselves are not immune to acid except maybe the creature that lives in the reclamation pools but at the same time it isn't a combatant.  Once they have won at an end of a campaign they do digest all the tyranid units on the ground.

In any case, Tyranids can reproduce infinitely faster than xenomorphs. The xenos need living hosts while the Tyranids make due with any kind of bio-matter at all, including plantlife.

Not quite, Xenomorphs do need hosts most the time but they do not need to be alive as seen in Alien 3 special edition AvP, and AvP-R.  The thing with the Tyranids is exuding accouple bio-titans and genestealer cults all Tyranids come from the Norn Queen and she is in space.  Any major reinforcements that would come to help in an invasion would have to come from space.

It's hard to argue the case for Tyranids given the facts you've just provided me with, so I'm just gonna bow before your superior knowledge in the Xenoverse and let you know that was some very interesting reading you just provided me with.

Wait, we didn't go into any details!  Argh I was going to make espresso