Poll: AvP vs AvPR

[DoomRulz]

Even though Celtic actually had a better fight and lasted longer than Wolf would have, based on what we saw of his fighting style.

What fighting style? Unless you're referring to the 10 seconds or so he stood in front of Grid initially hoping to hit him with his blades

[gameoverman]

Even though Celtic actually had a better fight and lasted longer than Wolf would have, based on what we saw of his fighting style.

What fighting style? Unless you're referring to the 10 seconds or so he stood in front of Grid initially hoping to hit him with his blades

What did Wolf do?  Oh, he managed to throw an alien down and punch it, which effectively paralysed the alien.     Nothing Wolf did was very impressive, he only won because the aliens were retards.  Did Wolf ever do anything like the flying jump and spear tackle that Scar did?  Nope.  Wolf had it very easy - he barely moved in most of his fights.

Any of the AVP preds would easily own Wolf based on what we saw in AVP alone.

[Cellien]

The Cameron aliens didn't flail around like retards and do completely nothing when being attacked (because they actually did attack). The gore wasn't an improvement at all with the awful CGI.

The cgi effects in this movie are amazing.

Whoa.  Say what?  The CGI was far from amazing.  CGI chest bursters come to mind!  Not to mention a plethora of extremely fake looking gore...

[DoomRulz]

Even though Celtic actually had a better fight and lasted longer than Wolf would have, based on what we saw of his fighting style.

What fighting style? Unless you're referring to the 10 seconds or so he stood in front of Grid initially hoping to hit him with his blades

What did Wolf do?  Oh, he managed to throw an alien down and punch it, which effectively paralysed the alien.     Nothing Wolf did was very impressive, he only won because the aliens were retards.  Did Wolf ever do anything like the flying jump and spear tackle that Scar did?  Nope.  Wolf had it very easy - he barely moved in most of his fights.

Any of the AVP preds would easily own Wolf based on what we saw in AVP alone.

Just b/c the Aliens were stupid doesn't mean Wolf is a bad fighter. He could know martial arts for all we know.

[Cellien]

Like a Power Ranger villain!

[Sol]

Even though Celtic actually had a better fight and lasted longer than Wolf would have, based on what we saw of his fighting style.

What fighting style? Unless you're referring to the 10 seconds or so he stood in front of Grid initially hoping to hit him with his blades

What did Wolf do?  Oh, he managed to throw an alien down and punch it, which effectively paralysed the alien.     Nothing Wolf did was very impressive, he only won because the aliens were retards.  Did Wolf ever do anything like the flying jump and spear tackle that Scar did?  Nope.  Wolf had it very easy - he barely moved in most of his fights.

Any of the AVP preds would easily own Wolf based on what we saw in AVP alone.

The flaw in your argument is the Aliens were sub sequentially downgraded fighting ability wise, in turn allowing the directors/writers to portray Wolf as a superior warrior (compared to previous numb nuts in AVP). Whether or not they did it convincingly to Aliens fans is not the issue. Wolf doesn't "suck" because the Aliens [in Requiem] sucked. If someone else had to write Wolf (whose a superior hunter/warrior plot wise in the film) and the Aliens, and would have shown the Aliens to be more in line with their past incarnations (being much more aggressive/smart), thus pleasing all the "fans", he would have still dominated them, because that's the goddamn plot they were aiming for.

I've said this shit before, actually. You guys typically ignore this point I bring up, and go on about "Wolf wasn't REALLY an elite Pred... because the Aliens sucked" ad nauseam. Stop that argument, altogether. It has no real ground.

SiL, my homie; just wanna clarify my feelings on the AVP Preds. I feel the same way about them, as you feel about the Requiem Aliens. But, the door swings both ways. I can't bitch too mcuh about their poor performance, simply because the script called for it.

Also, as you, I really hate their appearances (in film). Outside of the film (toys, art, models kits, they look decent).

[SiL]

Whether or not they did it convincingly to Aliens fans is not the issue

It's entirely the issue.

And it's not just Alien fans.

Wolf is never seen doing anything remarkable. You cannot say he's a better fighter because his opponents didn't fight back. What we do see him do is stupid and suicidal.

Celtic presses down on Grid's head, Grid fights back. Wolf presses down on an Alien's head, it takes it like a bitch. We actually see that Celtic is capable of fighting; Wolf is only capable of striking an "iconic" pose while the Aliens drop like flies around him. It's like those parodies of kung fu films in sketch shows.

he would have still dominated them, because that's the goddamn plot they were aiming for.

Yes, except this time he would've dominated them because he was actually superior. It doesn't matter that the plot would remain the same; what we get is a completely incompetent fighter battling an even more consummately incompetent foe.

You guys typically ignore this point I bring up,

Cos it's a bloody stupid point, is why. Our argument has the grounds of what's in the movie. Your argument is "He'd win anyway, so of course he's more awesome!" It doesn't work like that. You're completely ignoring what's blatantly shown in the film; Wolf is crap and the Aliens worse.

I can't bitch too mcuh about their poor performance, simply because the script called for it.

Again, that's just moronic. "Oh, well, the script called for it! That must mean it's perfectly fine!"? F**k that, good sir, f**k that hard.

Celtic was shown to be a better fighter because he actually fought. He got into a serious hand-to-hand fight with an Alien.

Wolf posed for a photo shoot.

[Sol]

It's entirely the issue.

No, you're missing the point. You liking the way the various confrontations occurred means absolutely shit. The outcome of the battles <Wolf winning unharmed> is the only factor I am referring too. If you think for a second, you being pleased with the battles has any retroactive effect on the fact Wolf is (supposed to be) a more skilled warrior (at the least, in comparison with AVP's lot), and is supposed to win the various battles within Requiem's script, then we have a problem, or rather you do.

And it's not just Alien fans.

You've stated a million times your an Aliens fan first and foremost, many times over here. Clearly I was implementing you, and the various others, that thereof.

Wolf is never seen doing anything remarkable.

He kills a shitload of Aliens. That's damned remarkable, and again, besides the damned point.

You cannot say he's a better fighter because his opponents didn't fight back. What we do see him do is stupid and suicidal.

They did fight back, just f**king poorly, and unacceptable in the eyes of ones such as yourself. This wasn't a fixed boxing match. Wolf defeated his prey the old fashioned way. The Brothers Strause just failed to make you say "Yea, I liked the way that fight panned out". 

Yes, except this time he would've dominated them because he was actually superior. It doesn't matter that the plot would remain the same; what we get is a completely incompetent fighter battling an even more consummately incompetent foe.

Uh, yes. It does matter. It's literally! the most important aspect. He was suppose to win. Portraying that to the satisfaction of you, or whomever has no f**king hold on this, at all. Don't be dense.

Cos it's a bloody stupid point, is why.

Wolf will/would win, regardless of the director, with the plot given, thus "Elite Damn Predator". Stupid point? f**king hardly, bro.

Our argument has the grounds of what's in the movie.

Your "argument" is BAAAWW, the Aliens should have stabbed him left and right at several different occasions. Yea, because that's what they WANTED to happen. Yes, that's totally missing everything pertaining to this very post quoted. Awesome. Hurray for being oblivious to the simplest of subject matter.

Your argument is "He'd win anyway, so of course he's more awesome!" It doesn't work like that. You're completely ignoring what's blatantly shown in the film; Wolf is crap and the Aliens worse.

No. My argument is Wolf is :awesome!: because he was supposed to be as such. How it was shown is not the point, or what I'm discussing.

Again, that's just moronic. "Oh, well, the script called for it! That must mean it's perfectly fine!"? F**k that, good sir, f**k that hard.

No, that's not what I said. Again, you're totally not getting what I'm saying. No, the fight sequences were far from perfect. Yes, would have been awesome to see a Wolf fight an alien with the intellect of the creatures from Aliens.

What I'm saying if someone portrayed the fights as the above, and if the underlined marks from the script were still held, Wolf would still beat their asses, until he drawed at Chet. What's so utterly hard to grasp about that. Do you disagree with that? If so, wow.

Celtic was shown to be a better fighter because he actually fought. He got into a serious hand-to-hand fight with an Alien.

Celtic made all the same mistakes your Aliens did in Requiem, and I do indeed pick that shit apart on the regular. Still, the script called for two dead Predators, and one to survive till the end, only to die by a embryo, that for some god forsaken reason, every Predator on the ship missed. Yea.

Wolf posed for a photo shoot.

And he looked great. I'd buy that for a dollar.

[SiL]

The outcome of the battles <Wolf winning unharmed> is the only factor I am referring too.

But that doesn't mean he's a better fighter.

If I shoot a guy, does that make me a better fighter than Jet Li? If I beat the crap out of a paraplegic, does that make me some skilled hunter? No!

That's damned remarkable, and again, besides the damned point.

Again. It's exactly the point.

Wolf defeated his prey the old fashioned way.

Since when was the "old fashion way" leaving yourself completely exposed to attack and only winning because your opponent was too mentally deficient to defend itself?

Did I miss something in history class?

It's literally! the most important aspect

It's the least important aspect. Who comes out on top doesn't determine who's better; how they get there does. Yes, Celtic died, but he put up a serious fight. Yes, Wolf won, but all he did was pose.

Stupid point?.

Yes.

Your "argument" is BAAAWW, the Aliens should have stabbed him left and right at several different occasions.

Even ignoring the Aliens' incompetence, look at how Wolf fights. He leaves himself open to attack constantly. He's totally vulnerable in every encounter. That's not the mark of a skilled hunter.

[Sol]

Holy shit.

But that doesn't mean he's a better fighter.

Huh.

Wolf wins. Better fighter. Message attempted to be sent to the viewer. Can it be said any simpler?

If I shoot a guy, does that make me a better fighter than Jet Li? If I beat the crap out of a paraplegic, does that make me some skilled hunter? No!

What in the holy hell.

Again. It's exactly the point.

I repeat, huh.

Since when was the "old fashion way" leaving yourself completely exposed to attack and only winning because your opponent was too mentally deficient to defend itself?

Did I miss something in history class?

...

Old fashion way = He didn't bribe them, via slipping them some cash to "play dead", while the ref counts to 10. They fought back (no matter how tragically), and he won.

Why are you not understanding this, is beyond me.

It's the least important aspect. Who comes out on top doesn't determine who's better; (Sol went "What?" here) how they get there does. Yes, Celtic died, but he put up a serious fight. Yes, Wolf won, but all he did was pose.

What I saw, was Wolf strategically stalk, and successfully kill a handful of Aliens amok. When in the sewer, he planted laser devices adjacent to him, and behind him, as he proceeded  forward, and then arming them the second the Aliens made their presence known, successfully and tactfully, killing off several with a well placed, pre-meditated deterrences/traps.

And it's all irrevalant to my point.

Yes.

Absolutely not.

Even ignoring the Aliens' incompetence, look at how Wolf fights. He leaves himself open to attack constantly.

Make believe attacks that weren't in the film. If they did in fact, do these magical attacks, then you'd have a point. All you have is angry, Anti-Requiem fan faction, at the moment.

He's totally vulnerable in every encounter. That's not the mark of a skilled hunter.

Indeed. It's the tell-tale sign, that the Brother Strause need to study how to make a better fight sequence,  and that they possibly should have never touched this project.

[SiL]

If Celtic and Wolf went head to head, and Wolf came out on top, that would mean Wolf was better.

As it is, they went against different opponents. Different fights. Celtic didn't walk out of his, but he put up a good fight and was caught out by the inherent cockiness of all Predators - Even Wolf.

Wolf walked out of his fights, yet did nothing to show he was a more skilled hunter. The opponent Celtic went up against was a much tougher foe than what Wolf found himself up against.

Hence why I said, if I walk into a fight with a paraplegic and walk out, while a boxer gets beaten to death in a ring, it doesn't make me a better fighter. It means my opponent was so much easier. The boxer was the better fighter, the boxer was competent, but his opponent was a much tougher one than I had.

That's my point.

We can argue author intention all day, but when it comes down to it, what was intended plays a back seat to what actually happened. That's what I'm arguing. Based on what we see in the movie, f**k what the directors wanted, Celtic could actually fight. Wolf, not so much.

[Sol]

Your infatuation with Celtic is hilarious. Celtic got his ass handed to him by a single Alien. An Alien whom he had a strategic advantage against the entire fight. Cockiness, or not, he had him at several points throughout the fight sequence, but thanks to what we call in most circles, "Plot armor", the Alien miraculously pulls a fast one, and takes out Celtic with a single blow.

Just because the fight dragged on, doesn't mean he was the better warrior. Results, results, results. Celtic = 0. Wolf = a bajillion.

lol, Grid two and a half.

You're implications are utterly ridiculous, and I hope you someday see this for yourself.

[SiL]

My implications are based on watching the films.

Your implications are based on what was intended. Which as the franchises show, means jack shit.

Where, besides the end of the fight, did Celtic clearly have the upper hand? Where was it shown "Oh snap why didn't you just [insert action here]"?

Where was it shown that Wolf was anything but lucky?

[Sol]

My implications are based on watching the films.

Your implications are based on what was intended. Which as the franchises show, means jack shit.

Where, besides the end of the fight, did Celtic clearly have the upper hand? Where was it shown "Oh snap why didn't you just [insert action here]"?

Where was it shown that Wolf was anything but lucky?

Indeed. My implications were based on the intended plots of the films. You're upset about how the plot in Requiem, played out on a visual/aesthetics level, thus effecting your thoughts on the plot implications, which was "Wolf is the shit", and the "Aliens lacked what it took to take him out, sans Chet".

On the case of Celtic, he had several ranged weapons, dangling from his waist, which he could have used at any point. Yet, he chose to swang his damned wristbaldes at Grid, like some kind of simple minded fairy.

Oh, Grid's tail bolted into the ground and thus began whining like some retard, and instead of delivering a easy blow to the body of Grid, he cut off the tip of his tail.

I rest my case, goddammit.

Clear case of plot armor btw - Grid's tail growing 30 feet, curling and lifting Chopper. Hilarious.

[SiL]

The original intention of Alien was that the Alien reproduced via turning people into eggs.

This didn't make the final cut, and so the Queen was introduced.

Same deal here. What was intended didn't make it on-screen, so it's stupid trying to say it means anything when there's nothing in the film to back it up.

Fortunately for us, egg morphing did make it back on-screen eventually.