Why the PREDATOR sequels get the face WRONG [Opinion Piece]

Started by bendinglight, Feb 21, 2021, 05:43:58 AM

Author
Why the PREDATOR sequels get the face WRONG [Opinion Piece] (Read 32,396 times)

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#60
Fugitive's mandible arrangement's an absolute mess. I can dig nearly everything else, but like I said before here, compare the practical Fugitive to the CGI Fugitive.

Voodoo Magic

Do you mean when The Fugitive is on the operating table and his bottom mandibles are together in that upright position?

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#62
Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 24, 2021, 02:54:04 PM
Got to agree to disagree on this one, the ADI Predator faces look not... good at all to be honest, even with their intentions and the design directions and it's not because it's another take.

It's because they fail at their goal fundamentally, in comparison to past successes in Predator and Predator 2, although we can see this behind the scenes in nearly every film...

It's actually most evident in The Predator of all places, when we get a direct comparison with CGI versions of the Fugitive and of course Upgrade only exists in that, but during the holographic scene with other Predators standing around one being injected on a table- we see the former's design but without skin folds behind the mandibles- with the mandibles actually "closing properly" and with a overall head shape more in proportion with the original film and the Predator bible's depiction.

So it's clear that's what ADI's going for, or what the director asked for as we can see it's consistent with the behind the scenes design, and actually it's achieved on the CGI side of things but on the practical side of things anyone since Stan Winston can't quite manage it for unknown reasons.

I don't have any photos to demonstrate this as I don't own the film, but I think you all get what I mean, and know what I'm talking about.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#63
Yeah, I see what you mean. They often hang in a real weird resting place. There used to be a sensation of a Predator needing to open his mouth really, really wide to achieve even close to that look. But now they often hang like broken pieces in various scenes.



Imo I do think The Fugitive had the best paint application out of the ADI Predators though, so I've seen improvement there from film to film to film. But some how their head size has grown from film to film to film as well, messing with proportion. Still, all being said, from what I could tell, the Fugitive is much better overall than what I've been able to ascertain of the Emissary Predators.





Kradan


Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Kradan on Feb 25, 2021, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 25, 2021, 04:22:34 PM
ADI FUGITIVE LOVE BIAS!    ;)

ADI hate bias ?

There both just as silly to say, that was my point. However, even though we disagree, I respect your opinion my friend, as with anyone here. We're all team Alien and Predator at the end of the day. :)

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#66
Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 25, 2021, 04:30:00 PM
Fugitive's mandibles are an absolute mess.
your tastes are an absolute mess gurl

look at this absolute unit






Voodoo Magic

I do agree Fugitive always looks best from the side.

Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 25, 2021, 06:12:37 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 25, 2021, 04:30:00 PM
Fugitive's mandibles are an absolute mess.
your tastes are an absolute mess gurl

Let's be sure to be nice brother!  :)

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#68
He's definitely still my favourite Predator since the Stan Winston created ones, and he looks superb when snarling, but when not the mouth just looks awful. I love everything about the body, actually don't find him unproportionate apart from perhaps the head neck connection itself and I actually like the fluorescent eyes.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#69
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 25, 2021, 06:14:38 PM
Let's be sure to be nice brother!  :)
Lucy and I are bffs lel quit with the pass-aggro attitude fam

Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 25, 2021, 06:42:18 PM
I actually like the fluorescent eyes.
me too they're different just wish the cg pupils were better integrated

BlueMarsalis79

I hope NOBODY's being passive aggressive.
Any one of the three of us here.
Genuinely thank you though for the concern VM and OM. ❤️

Eighty-Five

Not gonna reply to any one specific person here. Just to say there's a lot of mixing up of aesthetic preference and practical implications going on.

Aesthetically, I think P1+2 have the best Predator designs. While there are aspects of the later films that I like, the overall execution of their faces particularly has always felt off to me. And you can see a clear change as the years have gone by. But you can't really make arguments about the jaw structure of a fictional creature from any kind of scientific standpoint as has been demonstrated already by SiL's point on dog breeds. Truth is often stranger than fiction.

The video linked in the OP actually showed up on my YouTube feed a few days ago and I watched it then. I found myself agreeing with the sentiment behind the video, but like a lot of YouTube critics/video essay guys I think he falls into the trap of conflating his subjective opinion with some sort of objective truth he can actually argue about successfully. And he can't, relying on his own assumptions and false information at various points to underpin his argument.

I think it would be a lot more beneficial if people gave up on talking about 'why xyz is objectively the best/worst thing to ever happen to the fandom' and instead exploring their own interpretations of those things. Why do you feel a certain way about Predator face designs? What are your thoughts? Share your opinions as what they are: Opinion. Don't try to dress it up in some pseudo-factual disguise and force your views on others. It will never produce the desired result and you will just end up irritating one-another.

So ultimately, while I feel like the creator of the video is probably on my wavelength from an aesthetic sensibility standpoint, I can't agree at all with the way he decided to go about expressing that idea.

If I were to boil my views down to a relatively snappy summary of Predator designs it would be this:

The original Predator designs in the first two movies had a slim, athletic look that helped make them convincing in their role as fast and powerful killers from an aggressive, ritualistic culture. The texture and the design of their bodies helped sell them to me as genuine extraterrestrials with functional anatomy.

In more recent portrayals, the designs have changed somewhat. They're still immediately identifiable as the same species, but proportions and facial details have drifted away from the original concept. The proportional changes have detracted from the sleek, athletic silhouette the creature is associated with in my mind. Meanwhile the changes to the structure of their faces gives me less a sense of strange alien anatomy, and more a sense of looking at a costume, designed by human hands. The way the designs have been done more recently just doesn't feel as convincing or 'alive' to me.

BlueMarsalis79

QuoteI think it would be a lot more beneficial if people gave up on talking about 'why xyz is objectively the best/worst thing to ever happen to the fandom' and instead exploring their own interpretations of those things. Why do you feel a certain way about Predator face designs? What are your thoughts? Share your opinions as what they are: Opinion. Don't try to dress it up in some pseudo-factual disguise and force your views on others. It will never produce the desired result and you will just end up irritating one-another.

A thousand times this.

OmegaZilla

Quote from: Eighty-Five on Feb 25, 2021, 06:54:07 PM
[...]
Best post in the thread fam, thank you. Agreed wholeheartedly

P2 best pred always



I'll say that fugitive does a super swell job too though... and while scar does feel more human (by director dictation) and wolf is just plain weird I've kind of grown fond of them over the years. But yes, P1/P2 are the top notch of things

Eighty-Five

I like aspects of most of the movie designs. Haven't actually watched The Predator and probably won't based on what I've heard about it, but I really like some of the design work on the Predator armour. Same goes for Wolf, the Super Predators, even the AvP quarterbacks. They all bring cool ideas to the table, but there's always elements that bring them down for me and it's usually the construction of the faces and the bodily proportions.

The Super Predators are a bit of an exception since they are supposed to be a different subspecies and I can forgive a lot of the differences based on that. My issue with them more comes down to the texture work on their skins. They have much more overtly reptilian scales and those weird sections of the head that look like exposed muscle. To me that sticks out because it makes them look like an entirely different type of animal to the (relatively) more smooth-skinned Predators. Like reptiles and mammals. Which makes it harder for me to accept them as related-but-different. I think the intention was their relationship be something like homo sapiens and neanderthals but the execution of the designs makes it hard for me to accept that.

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