AVPR- LIGHTING

[TurokSwe]

The point is to prevent them getting to Earth, so that a major cataclysm doesn't occur.

AvP shows that said cataclysm won't occur if they get to Earth, so the depth of her concern is undermined.

There are so many ways to state this simple concept, I am sure we will find one that clicks for you. You're already halfway there acknowledging that Ripley's doomsday scenario doesn't occur, now we just need you to get to the point where you comprehend the fact that means her worst fears were unfounded.

It's clearly going to take a long time, but we're patient.

I'm patient, and I'll keep trying to clarify our disagreement until it gets through. Yes, the point is to keep them from reaching Earth so that Earth is out of danger in general and not exclusively from any global infestation, which is only the worst case scenario. AVP doesn't show that a global infestation will never happen, it just shows Earth civilizations not only being in great danger but actually being overrun and eradicated by Xenomorphs which are taken out before they reach any closer to a global infestation. Ripley's concerns are not only more emotionally based rather than factually based but her concerns are also just general concerns for her homeworld in general, and it has never been solely about global extent. She doesn't want humans to encounter Xenomorphs at all, and a global infestation would only be the worst case scenario.

AVP remains perfectly consistent with what we know from the previous films in regards to how dangerous Xenomorphs are, it doesn't "undermine" this in any way, but (yet again) it only undermines your ridiculous expectation that the moment a Xenomorph touches down on Earth it's immediately and irreversibly game over. It's not reasonable, especially after having watched all the films. A global infestation is entirely possible, depending on circumstances, but it has never been definitively true that a global infestation will inevitably occur the moment a Xenomorph reaches Earth. I've said this enough times already that it should have gotten through.

[Gr33n M4n]

A Xeno on Earth would definitely be damaging. But I don't think that it would just spread to every continent wiping out humanity.

[SiL]

Cool but that was literally Ripley's concern and a major driving force of what she does.

[[cancerblack]]

I'll keep trying to clarify our disagreement until it gets through.

You must realize by now how completely futile that is right?

[TurokSwe]

In the Alien movies, Ripley does in fact believe that the aliens pose a great threat to earth and any other civilations that may encounter them, her fears about the aliens is why she goes back to acheon, as she wants them wiped out.

Sil is right in that this is the message the movie gives us, even if only through Ripley's perspective.

Does this mean its certain? No, Ripley could easily be overestimating the threat. She is a human being with human flaws and presumptions and bias are flaws she displays frequently,
Ripley does have good cause for them though, getting attacked by an android could make you dislike/distrust androds. Being considered a secondary concern and expendable by someone in the company is going to make you distrust the company and getting nearly killed by an alien is obviously going to leave an impression.

The point here is that Ripley's views are personal to her past experiences. She genuinely believes the Alien to be a doomsday threat, she initially believed that androids couldn't be trusted and she definitely believed that the company would kill anyone who witnessed an alien. The message she gives to people are clear, that the alien cannot ever reach earth or everyone will die.

It doesn't necessarily mean she is correct though, this is just the scenerio that Ripley and by consequence, the movie is painting for us.

As for AVP, that film suggests that her fears are mostly just that, fears. the aliens are shown to be fairly easily contained and in fact it would probably be simple incompetent retaliation towards the aliens threat that would lead them to be able to spread.  The flashback in AVP is actually baffling when you consider that there should only be the same amount of aliens as there were sacrifices, it would take either outright inaction or incompetent behavior to allow such a city wide spread, it should presumably take days of inaction for everyone in the city to be implanted or killed.

That all being said, that doesn't mean such a spread couldn't happen either, small towns with little defence or knowledge of the aliens such as Hadley's Hope, could be overrun completely. So an unprepared settlement or city could be lost but those with knowledge on the aliens should be able to contain them fairly well.

You make some good points here. Except I think it's pretty clear AVP realizes the fears Ripley had and brings them to life, they're just not the worst case scenario, but they still show a real terrible outcome of bringing Xenomorphs to Earth and why we shouldn't allow them to return. I think all the films we had thus far have shown the Xenomorphs to be pretty easily contained and eradicated with very little effort from very few individuals though.

[SiL]

It doesn't bring them to life because life as we know it isn't wiped out.

How is this so hard for you? Just honestly, how?

[[cancerblack]]

It doesn't bring them to life because life as we know it isn't wiped out.

How is this so hard for you? Just honestly, how?

Feel free to elaborate or this can just be disregarded as yet another of your regular misrepresentations of the other person.

I don't think it's a misrepresentation to say that you've written thousands of words on your website calling effectively others - who have worked in the franchise in an official capacity - liars.

I think olm8 answered this.

[The Cruentus]

In the Alien movies, Ripley does in fact believe that the aliens pose a great threat to earth and any other civilations that may encounter them, her fears about the aliens is why she goes back to acheon, as she wants them wiped out.

Sil is right in that this is the message the movie gives us, even if only through Ripley's perspective.

Does this mean its certain? No, Ripley could easily be overestimating the threat. She is a human being with human flaws and presumptions and bias are flaws she displays frequently,
Ripley does have good cause for them though, getting attacked by an android could make you dislike/distrust androds. Being considered a secondary concern and expendable by someone in the company is going to make you distrust the company and getting nearly killed by an alien is obviously going to leave an impression.

The point here is that Ripley's views are personal to her past experiences. She genuinely believes the Alien to be a doomsday threat, she initially believed that androids couldn't be trusted and she definitely believed that the company would kill anyone who witnessed an alien. The message she gives to people are clear, that the alien cannot ever reach earth or everyone will die.

It doesn't necessarily mean she is correct though, this is just the scenerio that Ripley and by consequence, the movie is painting for us.

As for AVP, that film suggests that her fears are mostly just that, fears. the aliens are shown to be fairly easily contained and in fact it would probably be simple incompetent retaliation towards the aliens threat that would lead them to be able to spread.  The flashback in AVP is actually baffling when you consider that there should only be the same amount of aliens as there were sacrifices, it would take either outright inaction or incompetent behavior to allow such a city wide spread, it should presumably take days of inaction for everyone in the city to be implanted or killed.

That all being said, that doesn't mean such a spread couldn't happen either, small towns with little defence or knowledge of the aliens such as Hadley's Hope, could be overrun completely. So an unprepared settlement or city could be lost but those with knowledge on the aliens should be able to contain them fairly well.

You make some good points here. Except I think it's pretty clear AVP realizes the fears Ripley had and brings them to life, they're just not the worst case scenario, but they still show a real terrible outcome of bringing Xenomorphs to Earth and why we shouldn't allow them to return. I think all the films we had thus far have shown the Xenomorphs to be pretty easily contained and eradicated with very little effort from very few individuals though.

Yes, but Sil's point is that the alien movies through Ripley's own personal perspective is that she genuinely fears that the Aliens could pose such a threat to a civilized world. Its her driving force and motivation in killing them all and even herself. That's the message we get from her. Whether she is right or wrong is moot as its the fear of such potential outcome and the actions taken to avoid is the behavior we see in the alien movies.

AVP downplays her fears greatly by making her death almost pointless, because the aliens can be contained fairly well. So Ripley could have taken Michael's offer and have had a life. This assuming that they would be competently contained of course. Could Aliens take down cities? sure, but there are variables at play there.

[TurokSwe]

In the Alien movies, Ripley does in fact believe that the aliens pose a great threat to earth and any other civilations that may encounter them, her fears about the aliens is why she goes back to acheon, as she wants them wiped out.

Sil is right in that this is the message the movie gives us, even if only through Ripley's perspective.

That's a good one, let's try that!

"The driving force of the main protagonist in the original films is to stop them getting to Earth as she fears this will lead to a catastrophe that threatens all life as we know it; the AvP films show that this is not the case, and that her deepest fears are unfounded, thus undermining her motivation."

Maybe that's easy enough? I don't know.

But the AVP films does show that Xenomorphs on Earth leads to catastrophes that threatens all life on Earth, and they were only eradicated before they ever reached the point of a global infestation. It remains perfectly consistent with the previous films in demonstrating that her fears of what Xenomorphs on Earth could do are realized (just not to the unreasonable extent that you personally argue). Her motivation is never undermined in AVP, but it's affirming her fears and demonstrating why we can't let Xenomorphs ever reach Earth. How could they be "unfounded"?

[[cancerblack]]

In the Alien movies, Ripley does in fact believe that the aliens pose a great threat to earth and any other civilations that may encounter them, her fears about the aliens is why she goes back to acheon, as she wants them wiped out.

Sil is right in that this is the message the movie gives us, even if only through Ripley's perspective.

That's a good one, let's try that!

"The driving force of the main protagonist in the original films is to stop them getting to Earth as she fears this will lead to a catastrophe that threatens all life as we know it; the AvP films show that this is not the case, and that her deepest fears are unfounded, thus undermining her motivation."

Maybe that's easy enough? I don't know.

But the AVP films does show that Xenomorphs on Earth leads to catastrophes that threatens all life on Earth, and they were only eradicated before they ever reached the point of a global infestation. It remains perfectly consistent with the previous films in demonstrating that her fears of what Xenomorphs on Earth could do are realized (just not to the unreasonable extent that you personally argue). Her motivation is never undermined in AVP, but it's affirming her fears and demonstrating why we can't let Xenomorphs ever reach Earth. How could they be "unfounded"?

Jesus f**king christ

[TurokSwe]

A Xeno on Earth would definitely be damaging. But I don't think that it would just spread to every continent wiping out humanity.

Not immediately or inevitably anyway, and it certainly wouldn't be impossible to defeat them any more than it was in the past films.

Cool but that was literally Ripley's concern and a major driving force of what she does.

What?

I'll keep trying to clarify our disagreement until it gets through.

You must realize by now how completely futile that is right?

It always seems futile until you find success.

It doesn't bring them to life because life as we know it isn't wiped out.

How is this so hard for you? Just honestly, how?

Come again? Her fears weren't exclusively that all life would be wiped out, but they were again very general fears that people would be exposed to Xenomorphs, and a global cataclysm would only be the worst case scenario of her fears, but still not exclusively what constitutes her fears. I don't see how this is so difficult for you to grasp.

Yes, but Sil's point is that the alien movies through Ripley's own personal perspective is that she genuinely fears that the Aliens could pose such a threat to a civilized world. Its her driving force and motivation in killing them all and even herself. That's the message we get from her. Whether she is right or wrong is moot as its the fear of such potential outcome and the actions taken to avoid is the behavior we see in the alien movies.

AVP downplays her fears greatly by making her death almost pointless, because the aliens can be contained fairly well. So Ripley could have taken Michael's offer and have had a life. This assuming that they would be competently contained of course. Could Aliens take down cities? sure, but there are variables at play there.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm afraid I don't see how AVP supposedly downplays her fears rather than affirming them. Xenomorphs are incredibly dangerous and you can't trust that anyone would be able to contain them, and AVP like the previous films proves as much, and because of how dangerous they are you wouldn't risk letting Xenomorphs survive and spread to anywhere, but they need to be eradicated regardless. She can't take a risk like that, especially after knowing from AVP and AVPR what a potential infestation could accomplish. There's no way anyone in their right mind would let that happen.

[SiL]

Maybe try rewatching the films and get back to us? She's not vague. She never mentions some low-level general anxiety; she's pretty thoroughly apocalyptic on the subject. AvP shows said widespread devastation doesn't happen. AvP clearly and repeatedly shows in both movies that it doesn't get as bad as she fears even when things go wrong.

[TurokSwe]

Maybe try rewatching the films and get back to us? She's not vague. She never mentions some low-level general anxiety; she's pretty thoroughly apocalyptic on the subject. AvP shows said widespread devastation doesn't happen.

We've had this conversation multiple times already. Don't start it all over as if I never said anything. Ripley is indeed showing great anxiety and certainly including apocalyptic concerns, and I have still never said anything different, and AVP only affirms those concerns. It just never reaches true worldwide devastation in those particular instances, but that doesn't mean it could never happen, it just means it didn't come to fulfillment during these particular events and they were stopped before they ever reached worldwide devastation, just like Ripley and company stopped multiple smaller infestations. If going by this logic of yours, then Ripley shouldn't even have been able to stop any of these infestations she encountered, and every time they would be the absolute worst case scenario and neither she or anybody would ever survive.

[TheBATMAN]

This very argument is the main reason I lost all faith in the AVP film when Anderson said it was set on present day Earth. I'm with the majority here, it clearly undermines Ripley's fight across the original trilogy of films when Anderson tried to suggest that numerous Aliens infestations had already occurred in Earth's past. This claim was made even more bizarre when Antarctica was chosen as the film's setting because in Anderson's own words 'it was the closest place on Earth to represent an alien planet.' Then why not just set it on an alien planet?

I know this is spiralling off into a different argument, but what was the point of the present day earth setting? Even if the Aliens got to the surface of Bovatoya, where were they going to go? Not only does the earth setting undermine the original films, the setting nullifies the very threat it is trying to create. I don't think i'll ever understand what goes through Paul Anderson's head when he is trying to be a writer.

[Kradan]

Just nuke this thread from the orbit. That's the only way to be sure