Aliens: An Analysis

Started by Scorpio, Jan 27, 2018, 02:12:52 AM

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Aliens: An Analysis (Read 39,475 times)

Necronomicon II

Necronomicon II

#225
As long as I get my bonus.  ;D

SiL

SiL

#226
There's nothing in the movie to suggest the SO is coded into every ship and plenty to suggest the Nostromo was deliberately set up.

What is SOP is "detect signal, wake up crew". Reroute the ship to intercept the signal and trigger the automation; place science officer on board with special order to retrieve specimen.

For SO-937 to be on every ship, every single science officer employed by WY would need to be either an Android (clearly not the case) or in on the conspiracy. It would be ridiculous to leave it lying there if there was a chance someone saw it and raised the alarm to the rest of the crew.

Necronomicon II

Necronomicon II

#227
The fact they replaced the science officer with a droid two days before they left Thedus is also, well, fishy as hell. Yes we need uh, better paper work on the mineral composition of ore, your old guy sucks.

SiL

SiL

#228
Imagine if the special order was just standard.

"Hey, Captain? The computer's telling me you're all expendable and to bring back that fungus we found at all cost."

"It what."

oduodu

oduodu

#229
"crew expendable"

"secure organism"

"special"

seems  very specific

SiL

SiL

#230
"Nostromo rerouted to new coordinates" is also part of the special order.

oduodu

oduodu

#231
and no one thought to ask why the tip of the spear attached to the spear gun was acid burned dangling  outside the lifeboat.  it would make me a bit more lenient towards ripley's story.

off topic sorry

SiL

SiL

#232
Pretty sure that tip is long gone in space - but the gun is still jammed in the door.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#233
Quote from: SiL on May 30, 2023, 04:32:35 AMThere's nothing in the movie to suggest the SO is coded into every ship and plenty to suggest the Nostromo was deliberately set up.

Honestly, I don't think the film successfully supplies plenty to either of these viewpoints. Personally, I think it's a protocol hidden and spread across the 'network', waiting to be activated under extreme or special circumstances much like the Alien eggs. The film works if you imagine differently, that there's perhaps some comptroller or bean-counter somewhere urging Ash and Mother to move onward, that's fine. I just think the film is vague on these points because no one other than Ridley gave it much thought. He imagined the whole scenario to be driven by automation and a company so remote from its employees that terrible things are sanctioned without a second thought.

QuoteWhat is SOP is "detect signal, wake up crew". Reroute the ship to intercept the signal and trigger the automation; place science officer on board with special order to retrieve specimen.

I don't think that's standard operating procedure, given Parker has to have his arm bent with withheld shares to even go. You definitely get the feeling that this situation is unusual. Lambert seems surprised when scanning the system, Parker reacts like "what?" when told they are off-course. It just doesn't seem ordinary for them. Maybe Special Order 1-936 are quite benign, who knows. "Go to gift shop, buy dipping bird."

QuoteFor SO-937 to be on every ship, every single science officer employed by WY would need to be either an Android (clearly not the case) or in on the conspiracy. It would be ridiculous to leave it lying there if there was a chance someone saw it and raised the alarm to the rest of the crew.

I don't think this is a problem we can logic in or out of the movie. Ridley's ideas often went against logic, the corporate plotline isn't made to be very intelligible or rational (look at Blade Runner; if you can tell who a replicant is by looking at their glowing eyes, why even need a Voight-Kampff machine?).

By Ridley's own word, the ship crews are left in the dark, operate in a paranoid environment, and many do feel that androids have infiltrated the crews. He has also said he imagined the crews being sorted by computer, and the human element is nil; almost completely vestigial. I don't think the Company care if the crews find out. Speaking logically, you could probably run these ships and operations without humans at all.

Quote from: Ridley ScottTo dissuade the crews from rebelling and to protect their own interests, these companies might place spies on board, or at least would make the crews believe in the presence of such spies. Gradually a legend would evolve that these people, whose identities remain unknown, are in fact robots. Furthermore, nobody would have any proof. This would reinforce legends already current among astronauts

Anyone can accept or disregard this, as it ain't in the movie. Personally, it helps paint the scene for me.

I feel Dan O'Bannon's prediction coming true:

"You will go insane trying to figure out how and why the 'company' set them up to discover the Alien."  :laugh:   

SiL

SiL

#234
Quote from: Valaquen on May 30, 2023, 09:07:51 AMI don't think that's standard operating procedure, given Parker has to have his arm bent with withheld shares to even go.
He's not threatened with withheld shares as special coercion though, he's simply told what's in his employment contract.

Dallas also points out that the ship is programmed to interrupt the voyage should certain conditions arise.

It's not common, as space is vast and empty in Alien. But it's the process.

QuoteYou definitely get the feeling that this situation is unusual. Lambert seems surprised when scanning the system, Parker reacts like "what?" when told they are off-course. It just doesn't seem ordinary for them.
Firstly, like I said above, it's rare.

Secondly, at that point Lambert expects to be home.

Thirdly, because they were rerouted as part of SO-937. They don't just happen upon the signal, they're sent to it.

We can talk about what was or wasn't intended, but what the film shows is the crew have no idea why they're so far off course, and then Ripley discovers a special order which explicitly states the ship was rerouted.

The ship waking up the crew to investigate is normal in response to intercepting a transmission. But the Nostromo only intercepts the transmission because they were redirected into it as part of their special order.

I just don't see anything in the finished film that says the SO was just sitting there.

oduodu

oduodu

#235
Quote from: SiL on May 30, 2023, 08:16:12 AMPretty sure that tip is long gone in space - but the gun is still jammed in the door.

*fool hardy troll reply hat on*

but maybe just a bit of the cable left stuck in the door .....

*fool hardy troll reply hat off*

get your point.

lol

Jonjamess

Jonjamess

#236
Perhaps WY did have some information on LV-426 before the events of Alien. A tip off or a scan or they detected the beacon. Then perhaps they replaced the Science Officer on the Nostromo knowing it could be re-routed to investigate this signal. And I could even buy that the Special Order was uploaded by Ash or by WY prior to the Nostromo departing.

But the fact of the matter is nobody in that movie is communicating with anyone back at Earth, WY employees or not. They are 10 months out and wouldn't be able to get instantaneous communications back and forth. So it still stands the Special Order is automated and not the instructions of an individual communicating directly with the Nostromo. And it also still stands that WY very very likely had no idea what they were sending the ship to investigate. They likely had no idea it was acid bleeding facehuggers and alien eggs. The Special Order mentioning retrieval of the lifeform and the crew being expendable is likely just one of many "predicted" or "possible" events that WY either programs into all their vessels or as I mentioned was planted when they swapped the Science Officer.

This whole WY conspiracy thing just seems to be a fan need rather than an actual plot point. There is nothing in the movies that suggests WY know anything about the Xenomorph. In Alien all we see is a generic Special Order that literally just mentions lifeform (a generic term). We know Ash is swapped in so that's the only other suspicious link we have that WY is sinister. Bit that still doesn't prove at all they have any knowledge of Xenomorphs. Then Aliens its further made clear WY have no idea about Xenomorphs as they build a colony right next to the Derelict and its only when Ripley turns up 20 years later ONE single WY employee sends the colony to investigate. Why would they wait 20 years if they knew??? There's zero logic in that. The simple fact is none of them knew what happened on the Nostromo and none of them believe Ripley, only Burke takes a chance on her story being true and only him alone. Then Alien 3 all of a sudden they are interested in the Alien, but only because 85 has contacted them and told them there's one running around Fury and one in Ripley! And also that flight recorder data was transmitted.

WY literally don't try to find any Xenomorphs until the end of Alien 3. The entire events of the other movies they don't act! They dont act after the Nostromo is destroyed, they dont even know its location or thats its been on LV-426 otherwise they would have gone looking there! They dont act after they find Ripley and they dont believe her story. They build a colony right nextvto their apparently highly sought after Derelict and do NOTHING for 20 years! They only decide to act at the climax of Alien 3. This heavily implies they don't have prior knowledge of the Xenomorph.

SiL

SiL

#237
There's nothing in Alien to say they knew about the Alien specifically.

There's everything to say they were deliberately sent to LV-426 to investigate the signal and pick up whatever life form they found there.

What the company knew of the transmission and its contents are vague and unknown. Likely it wasn't terribly specific as they wouldn't send a random ship to investigate if they knew what they were dealing with.

If Alien was written by an EU author, Ash would've been trying to murder everyone from the get go and the order would say "KILL THE CREW! LEAVE NO WITNESSES!"

The movie version is more wishy washy and corporate.

There's no big overarching conspiracy, no. But the Nostromo crew was absolutely set up and endangered.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#238
Quote from: SiL on May 31, 2023, 09:08:57 PMIf Alien was written by an EU author, Ash would've been trying to murder everyone from the get go and the order would say "KILL THE CREW! LEAVE NO WITNESSES!"

Yup.  The EU and a lot of fans won't be happy until Weyland-Yutani goes full mask-off Umbrella-mode.

TC

TC

#239
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 31, 2023, 11:33:23 PM
Quote from: SiL on May 31, 2023, 09:08:57 PMIf Alien was written by an EU author, Ash would've been trying to murder everyone from the get go and the order would say "KILL THE CREW! LEAVE NO WITNESSES!"

Yup.  The EU and a lot of fans won't be happy until Weyland-Yutani goes full mask-off Umbrella-mode.

Then let's hear it for the filthy casuals! We don't give a shit about EU. We watch the movies. That's it ;)

TC

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