The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

[RakaiThwei]

Hmm, not sure then. I've definitely heard it called the triple heartbeat sound before though. Hell, I even remember asking Colin Strause myself in the build up to AVPR if the triple heartbeat was back after it was missing from the first AVP. But for the life of me I can't think where it originated from.

Here is the thing about commentary, most people often don't listen to it or read it and sometimes it doesn't reflect what's on the screen. Some people choose to only go by what's on screen and audio, and for a lot of people-- the whole triple heart thing doesn't come to people's minds when they hear the sounds from the Predator's POV. I mean I didn't know about this.. I'm still having a hard time believing and accepting it.

Honestly, I am not too sure what to think of Lebbon's Yautja. When I think of Yautja, I think of the ones which the Perry's came up with and for me that's what sticks. I mean.. I know they use the Yautja name but they don't feel like Yautja to me. I mean there are similarities, and differences but I wouldn't go about saying they're meant to be the same versions.

[TheBATMAN]

Indeed, and in this particular instance it adds nothing to the story. I don't see why they were not just referred to as Hunters or Predators.

[RakaiThwei]

Indeed, and in this particular instance it adds nothing to the story. I don't see why they were not just referred to as Hunters or Predators.

I agree, and... you know I am very finicky about how the Yautja are portrayed. To me, the Perry's had set the standard and how they are meant to be portrayed. The thing is, everyone has their own versions of what Predators are supposed to be. We've got Perry's Yautja, Shirely's Hish, and now Lebbon's Yautja.

I feel as if these Predators are a little too soft.. even by "Yautja" standards if they are having direct communications with humans and having peace conferences. Perry's Yautja, as far as I am aware.. would be a lot harder for that to happen as far as I know. I mean even if we look at Hunter's Planet, there was some blood shed going on directly before an uneasy true-- and I mean a very uneasy true. Three World War also had that happen too. Shit, they were even sore about Marines getting a hold of Killer clan tech, and those were two opposing clans.

It's like comparing the different versions of Godzilla, so to speak.. we got three different animals here.. or interpretations of Predators here. I suppose this would be the "relevant" ones where as the Perry's version is it's own thing.

[Xenomorphine]

I suspect a disc-shaped chainsaw ripping through your thorax would kill most things, regardless of how many hearts are in there.

It's interesting physiology, but it could be that they need three because they're potentially small. Maybe human hearts are typically two or three times larger.

[RakaiThwei]

I suspect a disc-shaped chainsaw ripping through your thorax would kill most things, regardless of how many hearts are in there.

That's true regarding the smart disc, but the same couldn't be said about the PredAlien's tail. I mean I'm sure there are other mediums showing where Predator's get stabbed in the chest and either off quickly, or slowly like we saw in AVP-R.

But if what TheBATMAN said about the Predators being implied to having three hearts is true from Predator to AVP-R, based on what he said, then the three hearts physiology has always been there but no one really knew about it unless they listened to commentary. Can we get a verbatim quote from this commentary mention here?

[Corporal Hicks]

And this is where I bow out of this thread until I get my copy.

[The Alien Predator]

I suspect a disc-shaped chainsaw ripping through your thorax would kill most things, regardless of how many hearts are in there.

That's true regarding the smart disc, but the same couldn't be said about the PredAlien's tail. I mean I'm sure there are other mediums showing where Predator's get stabbed in the chest and either off quickly, or slowly like we saw in AVP-R.

But if what TheBATMAN said about the Predators being implied to having three hearts is true from Predator to AVP-R, based on what he said, then the three hearts physiology has always been there but no one really knew about it unless they listened to commentary. Can we get a verbatim quote from this commentary mention here?

I remember in "South China Sea", a huge anaconda sized worm went through a Predator's chest, impaling him. He cut off each end and continued fighting until he went back to his ship and removed it from his chest.

Perhaps three hearts could REALLY help in a situation like that. 

The reason he survived may be because the worm was lodged in, while in P2, Harrigan literally gutted City Hunter open like a fish. I doubt even Yautja are made to be cut open like that.

Batman, you know how you said Hashori is a female? How are female Yautja portrayed in the novel? Are they larger than the males? I like how Hashori is in charge of the Widow Clan, reminds me of the old lore I used to read and how females are usually in charge of running things while the males hunt.

[RakaiThwei]

I remember in "South China Sea", a huge anaconda sized worm went through a Predator's chest, impaling him. He cut off each end and continued fighting until he went back to his ship and removed it from his chest.

Well the redundant organs thing does have some benefits, especially for creatures who were meant for strenuous physical activity such as fighting and killing. No problem with that there. It does explain a lot, and I don't have much of a problem with it to where it infuriates me but it's kind of weird to me. I mean I've always accepted as Predators having some form of superhuman durability, especially with the old lore mentioning that they had skin which was rough and thick to where it could withstand small bullets. A natural form of light armor protection, I suppose. Also, I remember the old lore mentioning that the bones of Predators were denser than a human being's skeleton.. unless I am mistaken about that.

I haven't read South China Sea but the endurance and durability feats of that Predator were INSANE. I've read little snippets about it for gathering feats of the Predators (I used this research for nerd debates) to see exactly how powerful they were prior to the EU reboot. I mean Predator physiology is definitely unique in all interpretations.. Hish included. I mean in AVP2, there was mentioning of how a Predator's wristblades were somehow connected to their cardiac system and forced removal of it induced heart attacks, not to mention the immunity system of Predators were strong enough to fight off a strain of Anthrax like it was the common cold.

I've always known that the Predators were in the superhuman range because of their physiology, and I never really questioned it. I just accepted it as it was and quite content with it. The three hearts thing does indeed work... there are practical implications to it. I don't have an issue with it but to me it's just... weird. Yeah... that's the right word.

Weird.

Or maybe it's the whole presentation of it.. like Xenomorphine said, it made them Klingon's in a sense and I suppose that's where my difficulty with accepting that is.

Perhaps three hearts could REALLY help in a situation like that. 

Redundant organs could indeed help but I've always believed that the Yautja, especially in the old Perry versions, have had some sort of psuedo-healing factor. I believe in Prey that it was mentioned by Meriam Revna, that Dachande had suffered some broken ribs here and there. How many, I'm not entirely sure but I do know that it was enough to slow him down a little bit. She also mentioned that his physiology was like nothing she ever saw before, and that within three days his ribs were healing up already. Later on in Dachande's point of view, he mentions in his thoughts that he is quite aware of his surroundings, even with his eyes closed and needed more time healing and focused on that. To me... that implied meditative healing.

[Perfect-Organism]

Shhh,... listen.  ..... I smell Dune..

[The Alien Predator]

I remember in "South China Sea", a huge anaconda sized worm went through a Predator's chest, impaling him. He cut off each end and continued fighting until he went back to his ship and removed it from his chest.

Well the redundant organs thing does have some benefits, especially for creatures who were meant for strenuous physical activity such as fighting and killing. No problem with that there. It does explain a lot, and I don't have much of a problem with it to where it infuriates me but it's kind of weird to me. I mean I've always accepted as Predators having some form of superhuman durability, especially with the old lore mentioning that they had skin which was rough and thick to where it could withstand small bullets. A natural form of light armor protection, I suppose. Also, I remember the old lore mentioning that the bones of Predators were denser than a human being's skeleton.. unless I am mistaken about that.

I haven't read South China Sea but the endurance and durability feats of that Predator were INSANE. I've read little snippets about it for gathering feats of the Predators (I used this research for nerd debates) to see exactly how powerful they were prior to the EU reboot. I mean Predator physiology is definitely unique in all interpretations.. Hish included. I mean in AVP2, there was mentioning of how a Predator's wristblades were somehow connected to their cardiac system and forced removal of it induced heart attacks, not to mention the immunity system of Predators were strong enough to fight off a strain of Anthrax like it was the common cold.

I've always known that the Predators were in the superhuman range because of their physiology, and I never really questioned it. I just accepted it as it was and quite content with it. The three hearts thing does indeed work... there are practical implications to it. I don't have an issue with it but to me it's just... weird. Yeah... that's the right word.

Weird.

Or maybe it's the whole presentation of it.. like Xenomorphine said, it made them Klingon's in a sense and I suppose that's where my difficulty with accepting that is.

Perhaps three hearts could REALLY help in a situation like that. 

Redundant organs could indeed help but I've always believed that the Yautja, especially in the old Perry versions, have had some sort of psuedo-healing factor. I believe in Prey that it was mentioned by Meriam Revna, that Dachande had suffered some broken ribs here and there. How many, I'm not entirely sure but I do know that it was enough to slow him down a little bit. She also mentioned that his physiology was like nothing she ever saw before, and that within three days his ribs were healing up already. Later on in Dachande's point of view, he mentions in his thoughts that he is quite aware of his surroundings, even with his eyes closed and needed more time healing and focused on that. To me... that implied meditative healing.

I am also well versed in the lore you have resented me with, my personal favourite was the idea behind them fighting the viruses that were introduced to their bodies (I believe General Rykov added more than just Anthrax). He planned to infect them with some deadly illness for them to take back to their people without realizing the possibility of Predators being able to discover a cure.

Another thing I liked was Yautja having mild telepathic abilities, now hear me out, I don't mean it in the usual sense. I remembered reading somewhere that disc masters could control their devices with their minds. To me, it felt like they had the technology to link their minds with their tool and through focus, shift it to good use. I don't mean full blown telekinesis or any of that stuff.

I also liked the idea that someone here presented that the masks link to the mind by reading "brain waves" and the Predator can "think" it to change vision modes rather than clicking buttons with its mandibles (since I haven't seen any inner buttons on the masks we've seen from the inside)

Now granted, in P2, the Predator used his wrist combuter. That must've been a lower quality mask, but higher quality masks and discs or other tools that can pick up their user's brain waves sounds very alien-ish to me and gives the Yautja a deceptively advanced piece of machinery to wield.

I do look forward to seeing how Lebbon's ideas flesh out the Yautja. To me, these small differences mean nothing as when you think about it, Perry and Lebbon's Yautja are both very similar and even have genders. So it could all be different clan customs. This clan may be a lot more lenient as opposed to the ones Machiko Noguchi ran into for example.

I am just curious to see how the females are described in Lebbon's book, are they larger and stronger? That sort of thing.

[Xenomorphine]

A heart isn't the only organ in a body. Living things can die from damage to lungs and all sorts of other stuff, too (not to mention haemorrhaging from arteries being cut open on the inside). Predators don't have a thorax which gives very much more room for 'improvement', compared to our own.

I mean, just look at how many scientists thought Shaw's actions in 'Prometheus' after the surgery scene would have killed her. Nothing happened to her heart.

Example at about 27 minutes in on there:

[RakaiThwei]

Predators don't have a thorax which gives very much more room for 'improvement', compared to our own.

The thorax is the chest region, which is something we happen to have.. Are you saying that Predators don't have a chest region? I'm.. lost here. Can you put it in layman's terms for me here or something? I'm interpreting this kind of all wrong here. If they don't have a chest region, where would their sternum and ribs be? I mean even Perry's Predators had ribs according to Dr. Meriam Revna.

I hope I am interpreting this all wrong here from what you're trying to tell me.

[The Alien Predator]

Predators don't have a thorax which gives very much more room for 'improvement', compared to our own.

The thorax is the chest region, which is something we happen to have.. Are you saying that Predators don't have a chest region? I'm.. lost here. Can you put it in layman's terms for me here or something? I'm interpreting this kind of all wrong here. If they don't have a chest region, where would their sternum and ribs be? I mean even Perry's Predators had ribs according to Dr. Meriam Revna.

I hope I am interpreting this all wrong here from what you're trying to tell me.

Thanks Rakai, you taught me a new meaning for "thorax" today.

I thought it was something bugs had as part of their body segment at first, so I did a quick google search and found this definition.

"the part of the body of a mammal between the neck and the abdomen, including the cavity enclosed by the ribs, breastbone, and dorsal vertebrae, and containing the chief organs of circulation and respiration; the chest."

So yeah, humans (and it looks like Predators as well) have a thorax according to that definition.

Basically a fancy word for chest.

Xenomorphine does have a point, you don't need to destroy the heart in order to kill something. City Hunter could've been killed by other major organs being damaged (alongside one of his hearts too). But the fact that he remained standing for so long and was able to do that ear shattering death scream shows insane durability and dedication on his part.

[Ultramorph]

Thanks again for the info, theBATMAN. I have so little willpower where easily obtainable spoilers are concerned that I read it all.  My first reaction is surprise that Fox let Lebbon tell such a different type of story to what we usually get in this universe. That being said, I can't wait to read it for myself, and to see what other crazy things wind up happening in the sequels. I really need to go through my storage unit and get my copies of the last trilogy to re-read as a primer.

One small thing...

Spoiler

an alien gel that allows the Rage to control the xenos but causes mutations? Hmmmmm.

[close]

[RakaiThwei]

Xenomorphine does have a point, you don't need to destroy the heart in order to kill something. City Hunter could've been killed by other major organs being damaged (alongside one of his hearts too). But the fact that he remained standing for so long and was able to do that ear shattering death scream shows insane durability and dedication on his part.

I obviously know that there are vital organs to target aside from the heart, but I would think that the triple heart physiology would allow Lebbon's Yautja (to distinct them from Perry's Yautja, I will refer to the two as such) to survive such grievous wounds which would kill a normal human being. I mean I'm picturing something different, I would think that let's say someone stabs a Predator through one of these hearts.. and he's not going down. He's lost one heart, but is still alive cause the other two are still working and taking over where the destroyed one can't.

I am no medical expert, and I am not too sure on how redundant organs would work per se. So I maybe wrong in thinking how I am thinking such things could work. But I am sure that targeting other vital organs such as the stomach, brain, lungs, spinal column would be able to kill Lebbon's Yautja.

I mean they're just as mortal as us.. the only difference is they can clearly tank more damage than we can by a WIDE margain.