Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

[Xenomrph]

But some stories just do not go together and some of them don't even go with the films. The Hish mythos for example, and Destroying Angels.

Destroying Angels is fine if you assume that the Engineers and the Space Jockeys are not the same thing. The Hish thing is also pretty bizarre, but easy enough to write off as "not the same Predators seen in the movies". I've even seen the fan-theory tossed around that the Hish are the Super-Predators.

The Weyland-Yutani archive articles in the Blu-Ray for AvP-R were meant to be written in-universe as if actually by Weyland-Yutani staff, where as PREDATORS just used it for a title for a bonus segment and nothing more.

So? They still used the word, I'd say that gives it a good deal of legitimacy.

That's... What?

I don't understand, what's the problem?

As for this AvP Canon Bible which Dark Horse has... Is there an actual quote on that?

Here's some relevant quotes:

"Yeah, Fox tries to make sure all of the comics and novels (and upcoming video games) fit into an approved cannon and timeline.  They don't provide that timeline or restriction guide up front -- we usually have to do our own research based on pre-existing info available on the web and elsewhere -- but they do review and approve all proposals internally.  If something in the proposal doesn't fit the cannon, or is based on some innacurate fan-fiction claiming to be official, then they'll flag it as something that needs fixing.  They're not as strict as, say, Lucasfilm is with Star Wars, but then again they don't have as many bizarre, contradictory historical threads going on at once." -- Mike Kennedy, Dark Horse Comics

"The synopsis goes to Fox to make sure everything is copasetic with the rules of the licensed universe, and then, if it's approved, it goes back to the writer. Contract signed, book written, book delivered [...] Those are the kinds of things we look out for, and that Fox looks out for—the rules of the universe, but also the implications of the writing." -- from an interview with Dark Horse Press editors Rob Simpson and Victoria Blake

"We don't keep a continuity book or "bible" for those properties as we do not own them. When we have an idea for those properties, we pitch the ideas to FOX and they decide whether we can write those stories and whether they fit into the "timeline" of their properties. We have no say in those matters." - from Spencer at Dark Horse (dhcomics@darkhorse.com)

There's never been any attempt though to create one singular continuity.

Well except for those times where they attempted to create one singular continuity, as referenced in a quote from FOX in this very thread.

[predxeno]

What exactly are the continuity discrepancies between Prometheus and Destroying Angels?

[Master]

There is living Jockey and Jockey Alien in the later.

[RakaiThwei]

Destroying Angels is fine if you assume that the Engineers and the Space Jockeys are not the same thing. The Hish thing is also pretty bizarre, but easy enough to write off as "not the same Predators seen in the movies". I've even seen the fan-theory tossed around that the Hish are the Super-Predators.

The theory that the Space Jockeys and the Engineers are different species with some similarities, is nothing more than that. Theory. Most especially fan theory and perhaps fanfiction at best.

However the Hish thing may have some base to it. I do recall John Shirely mentioning that he wasn't aware of the Yautja concept and that after being informed about the Yautja, he said that it was possible that the Yautja and the Hish are cousin races. He also said that if he were to write another book, he would've made mention of the Yautja but only as a more primitive and backwards race. I also remember that statement drawing some criticism. It's a theory with some basis but still theory.

I don't understand, what's the problem?

It's not so much a problem but more like shock that you are suggesting that Big Red is canon. Also, the NECA backstory does imply that Dead End did infact happened, but because of legal red tape issues they are not allowed to directly mention Batman. Also, Dead End is a fan movie and while Fox does acknowledge and is aware of the film, I would think that the backstory to Big Red is more of a nod to a wonderfully made fan film more than anything else. Nothing more, nothing less. Because Dead End is a fan film and all  it's characters are fan interpretations, I don't think these characters are canon.

"Yeah, Fox tries to make sure all of the comics and novels (and upcoming video games) fit into an approved cannon and timeline.  They don't provide that timeline or restriction guide up front -- we usually have to do our own research based on pre-existing info available on the web and elsewhere -- but they do review and approve all proposals internally.  If something in the proposal doesn't fit the cannon, or is based on some innacurate fan-fiction claiming to be official, then they'll flag it as something that needs fixing.  They're not as strict as, say, Lucasfilm is with Star Wars, but then again they don't have as many bizarre, contradictory historical threads going on at once." -- Mike Kennedy, Dark Horse Comics

"The synopsis goes to Fox to make sure everything is copasetic with the rules of the licensed universe, and then, if it's approved, it goes back to the writer. Contract signed, book written, book delivered [...] Those are the kinds of things we look out for, and that Fox looks out for—the rules of the universe, but also the implications of the writing." -- from an interview with Dark Horse Press editors Rob Simpson and Victoria Blake

"We don't keep a continuity book or "bible" for those properties as we do not own them. When we have an idea for those properties, we pitch the ideas to FOX and they decide whether we can write those stories and whether they fit into the "timeline" of their properties. We have no say in those matters." - from Spencer at Dark Horse (dhcomics@darkhorse.com)

Yeah, that's nice and all.. And while they claim that Fox does mention that they try to fit everything into a timeline, there are still major issues which are present in it. Also they seem to imply that Fox lets their liscencees get away with a lot of things when it comes to producing EU material. For example, the Hish mythos and as much as I really hate to bring this one up-- the four armed Predator. I also find it funny that Dark Horse claims that Fox raises flags when it comes to something not fitting the canon, or even so much something which comes from fanfiction because otherwise if that were the case, we wouldn't have had the Hish mythos or even the four armed Predator.

And as for contradictory historical threads.. That's already happened with the films, and Fox doesn't seem to be going out their way to fix it. Now with this new continuity, well.. considering that it doesn't really connect or even retcon the old expanded material and isn't even going to use the AvP movies, well.. to me it kind of suggest that there is now another continuity and timeline despite Rodriguez and Scott not wanting PREDATORS and Prometheus to cross into AvP territory.

More and more I look at this, the EU is pretty much f**k all at this point.

What exactly are the continuity discrepancies between Prometheus and Destroying Angels?

The Engineers were simply giant humanoids who happened to wear the suit which is infact the carcass which we see in the first Alien. The Space Jockeys in Destroying Angels were non-humanoid entities who were bio-mechanical giants that didn't wear any suits which is what the body in ALIEN and Prometheus is supposed to be.

-Rakai'Thwei

[predxeno]

What exactly are the continuity discrepancies between Prometheus and Destroying Angels?

The Engineers were simply giant humanoids who happened to wear the suit which is infact the carcass which we see in the first Alien. The Space Jockeys in Destroying Angels were non-humanoid entities who were bio-mechanical giants that didn't wear any suits which is what the body in ALIEN and Prometheus is supposed to be.

-Rakai'Thwei

The suits the engineers wear were designed to be biomechanical (just like all their tech), in fact Dallas thought the Derelict ship in the first film/novelization looked like it had been grown, not built.  So it is possible that the Engineer decided to keep his suit on when he went into hypersleep and allowed it to function as a second skin so to speak.

[RakaiThwei]

The suits the engineers wear were designed to be biomechanical (just like all their tech), in fact Dallas thought the Derelict ship in the first film/novelization looked like it had been grown, not built.  So it is possible that the Engineer decided to keep his suit on when he went into hypersleep and allowed it to function as a second skin so to speak.

Then how do you explain the hair which was growing out from the sides of the Jockey in Destroying Angels?

-Rakai'Thwei

[predxeno]

In my opinion, I just did, actually; the suit functions as a SECOND skin (apparently one that can grow hair).  I not any more fond of the hair than you, but we have what we have and I provided my best explanation for it.

[SM]

The main problem with Destroying Angels for mine is the fact that the Company are running around aquiring Alien eggs with gay abandon from the LV-426 Derelict with scant regard for any sort of continuity, just 20 years after Alien.

Prometheus just compounds it with the Enginer thing.  This second skin thing doesn't work, because the Jockies in the comics have skin over what was previously thought to be a skeleton prior to Prometheus.  Turns out it's not a skeleton after all.

[Rambo]

You could say Prometheus simply made a mess of a lot of things by making the Jockey/Engineer exterior a space suit, just so they could look more humanoid. Prometheus would have worked fine if the Engineers' suit wasn't what so many comics have depicted as their actual body. Just would have made the Engineer CGI in Prometheus slightly more work.

[SM]

Prometheus did work fine.  It didn't mess anything up with the original source material.  Riddles probably isn't aware there's Jockies in comics, and wouldn't have cared if he did.

[predxeno]

The main problem with Destroying Angels for mine is the fact that the Company are running around aquiring Alien eggs with gay abandon from the LV-426 Derelict with scant regard for any sort of continuity, just 20 years after Alien.

That was the Derelict from LV-426?  I didn't know that, I thought it was a different ship on some other planet.

Prometheus just compounds it with the Enginer thing.  This second skin thing doesn't work, because the Jockies in the comics have skin over what was previously thought to be a skeleton prior to Prometheus.  Turns out it's not a skeleton after all.

How do we know it's really skin, and not a "second" skin?  I don't see any evidence that physically refutes my hypothesis.

Prometheus did work fine.  It didn't mess anything up with the original source material.  Riddles probably isn't aware there's Jockies in comics, and wouldn't have cared if he did.

That really is an insult; when the Strause Bros. shit on Alien/AVP continuity, everybody complains, but when Riddles does it, nobody does.  Double standard, anyone?  Ridley should be just as dedicated to maintaining universe continuity as anyone else, if he doesn't like it then tough luck, he shouldn't have left the series.

[SM]

That was the Derelict from LV-426?  I didn't know that, I thought it was a different ship on some other planet.

The Nostromo and LV-426 Derelict is mentioned in the first few pages and the Company is all over it.  A second Derelict is mentioned shortly after.

How do we know it's really skin, and not a "second" skin?  I don't see any evidence that physically refutes my hypothesis.

So they were a skin over their pilot suit then?  If this is the case what's the story with the Jockey in Alien.

That really is an insult; when the Strause Bros. shit on Alien/AVP continuity, everybody complains, but when Riddles does it, nobody does.  Double standard, anyone?  Ridley should be just as dedicated to maintaining universe continuity as anyone else, if he doesn't like it then tough luck, he shouldn't have left the series.

What on Earth are you talking about?

What double standard?

When they made Alien3 did they pay attention to the comics?  No.  When they made Resurrection did they pay attention to the comics?  No.  Why should Ridley?  And which continuity did the Strauses shit on exactly?

[predxeno]

How do we know it's really skin, and not a "second" skin?  I don't see any evidence that physically refutes my hypothesis.

So they were a skin over their pilot suit then?  If this is the case what's the story with the Jockey in Alien.

The jockey in Alien, I believe, was also an Engineer in a "second skin" pilot suit, though of course you'll have to take the term "skin" metaphorically as the suit isn't actually a skin but acts like one in addition to being a space suit (one that can apparently grow hair for some strange reason ).

That really is an insult; when the Strause Bros. shit on Alien/AVP continuity, everybody complains, but when Riddles does it, nobody does.  Double standard, anyone?  Ridley should be just as dedicated to maintaining universe continuity as anyone else, if he doesn't like it then tough luck, he shouldn't have left the series.

What on Earth are you talking about?

What double standard?

When they made Alien3 did they pay attention to the comics?  No.  When they made Resurrection did they pay attention to the comics?  No.  Why should Ridley?  And which continuity did the Strauses shit on exactly?

Alien 3 happened during a phase that I consider a time when neither Fox nor any other publishing agency cared about continuity, I was hoping/under the impression that things had changed since then.  Also, I find it unforgiveable that Ridley just decided to ignore all the canon established in the AVP films; it was offensive and didn't show much in the way of class at all.  As for the Strauses, didn't people say that Aliens on Earth in the modern day violated continuity?

[SM]

What's that got to do with the Strauses?  Anderson and Davis went down that road first.

Alien 3 happened during a phase that I consider a time when neither Fox nor any other publishing agency cared about continuity, I was hoping/under the impression that things had changed since then. 

They've never cared about continuity, at least not to the point of enforcing it.  Can you imagine some schmoe at Fox is going to go to Giler and Hill and say, 'Uh you can't make that movie you want because of a comic book'?  Same when Fox rather than Brandywine was driving Resurrection.

And Fox has never told comic or novel authors they must conform to other comics and novels - just the films.  Video games constantly revisit the Derelict on LV-426.  The comics tried to make some overall continuity within themselves, but even then, it's pretty flaky.

Also, I find it unforgiveable that Ridley just decided to ignore all the canon established in the AVP films; it was offensive and didn't show much in the way of class at all.

They only thing he ignored was the Weyland thing - which was a stupid idea of Anderson's anyway.

The jockey in Alien, I believe, was also an Engineer in a "second skin" pilot suit, though of course you'll have to take the term "skin" metaphorically as the suit isn't actually a skin but acts like one in addition to being a space suit (one that can apparently grow hair for some strange reason ).

[predxeno]

It's the best explanation for the Jockey suit with hair.

What's that got to do with the Strauses?  Anderson and Davis went down that road first.

Also, I find it unforgiveable that Ridley just decided to ignore all the canon established in the AVP films; it was offensive and didn't show much in the way of class at all.

They only thing he ignored was the Weyland thing - which was a stupid idea of Anderson's anyway.

Well, the Strauses put the Aliens in a public city which many fans thought was heretical.  Also, I think many fans claimed the eggbarfing method violated continuity standards.

As for the Weyland thing, I still think Ridley should have had the courtesy to at least acknowledge previous installments in the series; he wouldn't like it if somebody just wrote an Alien sequel that completely wrote over Prometheus.