What if Gorman was a veteran?

[RagingDragon]

Yeah I think they stopped flirting with combat models after all of the Roy Batty excitement.

[blood.]

How else were they going to find the colonists?

Maybe post what you think would happen instead of just "discuss thx"?

lol, ok I'll try.

First 'i believe a more combat experienced veteran would have disciplined his troops to fall in line, not be so cocky and take their job more serious. He's going to be actually respected as a leader instead of a guy the marines have to put up with.

Second, he would have taken the threat more seriously from the beginning, at least after evidence to support Ripley's statements are found in the abandoned colony such as the facehuggers and corroded floor that supports the acid blood claims as well as traces of small arms fire and barricades suggesting hostile confrontations. He's going to want to know absolutely everything about the potential danger they are facing. BTW, he's actually going to make sure the building really is secure.

Next, he has a valuable piece of intel regarding the fate of the colonists. Newt. He couldn't get her to talk, but ripley could. He's going to want her to get all the information she can from Newt. Usable information such as how she survived - ventilation ducts and where they lead, xeno habits such as coming out mostly at night, how many there are etc...

Based on this alone he's not going to send his team into a potentially hostile environment unarmed regardless whether he finds out early about the hazards of a firefight in one big fusion reactor or not. He'll either prep them for this by arming them with incinerators beforehand, or have the riflemen wait on standby at a safe distance while a smaller squad of marines armed with incinerators investigates. The armed marines would then stand a better chance of pulling back when overwhelmed, more would survive and therefore they would be more likely to survive camped in the colony, maybe even strong enough to launch a counter offensive.

Even if the events play out like they did, he's also not going to get overpowered by burke or let a civilian blow the trans axle. Also not going to get knocked out by a few lunch boxes.

Anyway, basically a more serious team would have performed better then a cocky team under the same circumstances, and all it would have taken IMO is a more respected combat veteran in the position of authority, but then again a cocky team is what cameron was going for but it's fun to speculate.

[whiterabbit]

I thought this was already explained in the movie. Gorman was the "new" lieutenant who was to good to eat with the rest of the grunts. The company apparently pulled strings to put that baffon in charge. Why? Because I figure if the regular lieutenant was at the helm those aliens would have been royally f**ked. No exclusive rights for anyone.

[Kimarhi]

LT's are basically advanced privates with degrees in such leadership fields as art history.

I was surprised at Ft. Sill.  Several of our sergeants were pretty hard on the lt's who had branched into FA, and the airborne senior enlisted were as hard on the LT's as they were privates.  Some were downright nasty.

But like us, the lts had not even qualified for a branch yet and had no troops to command.

The schooling is far more intensive for officers in the sheer amount of material they need to know, but there is a reason the military has a hierarchy and that's because you simply cannot learn everything there is to learn in initial training. 

Senior enlisted carrying their platoon leaders until they get it figured out is as common as junior NCO's carrying their junior enlisted until they figure it out. 

[Vertigo]

One point that I don't think has been addressed yet...

Combat in the heart of the atmosphere processor always had the potential to cause a major explosion, bullets or not. A slosh of acid blood is a hell of a lot more armour piercing than any pulse rifle round. And regardless of the marines' attitude towards Ripley's story, they'd already seen evidence of what a damaged alien could do to a metal structure.
You could argue that flame weapons might cauterise wounds or not break the skin in the first place, but that's theoretical (much like the nerve gas). There's also no telling what could happen in the combat situation even if everyone kept to the rules - accidentally torch a supporting girder, and it might weaken enough to drop down on a heat exchanger or an alien, for example. Disarming the marines wasn't enough - once they understood the siting of the nest, they had to withdraw. Nobody wants to get nuked.

This oversight isn't necessarily down to Gorman's field inexperience, it's just a matter of putting 2+2 together, and none of the three supervising adults happened to do it.

[Local Trouble]

I thought this was already explained in the movie. Gorman was the "new" lieutenant who was to good to eat with the rest of the grunts. The company apparently pulled strings to put that baffon in charge. Why? Because I figure if the regular lieutenant was at the helm those aliens would have been royally f**ked. No exclusive rights for anyone.

It wouldn't surprise me if Burke managed to pull strings with some dirty marine colonel over coke and hookers to get Gorman assigned to the mission.

[Xenoscream]

My 2 cent.

1. Secure the area properly

The moment they all saw a facehugger in a tube shit got real. Get those SGs setup and establish a base of operations.

When you see the huggers send the civvies back to the Solaco, it's now 100% military.

2. Think before taking action

The moment Gorman sees the map with the colonists in he says "saddle up Apone" taking some more time to assess the situation would have been key here.

Assume all the colonists are dead (based on last stand, logs, Newt) and don't rush.

Same goes for sending all the marines to sub level 3 at once, I'm sure a recon team could have gone in first.

Have an exit strategy figured out, don't reply on live radio orders "if you encounter heavy resistance fall back to the APC"

At the end of the day I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make, saving the dropship is key, but that one random patrolling Alien could screw you over in many ways.

[stephen]

From an operational stand point they were entering a dangerous situation.

They didn't know that.

Then why the marines uncomfortableness (that's a word I'm sure of it) when Gorman orders rifles slung?

If you wish to redefine it as a potentially dangerous situation then that's fine.

As for throwing him into dangerous situations, what the hell then is he doing there in the first place.

What? That's like asking why were Ripley or Burke there if they weren't going to make them walk point. He's a non-combatant. He's a back-up pilot and he's there to help out, not arm himself with a flamethrower (Which he can't do; he wouldn't even take a pistol to defend himself against Aliens) and march into potential combat situations.

Quite  right - but the difference between Bishop and Ripley and Burke is that Bishop is a part of the crew.  He was driving the APC and he could fly the dropship.  In alternate scenarios, the simple act of driving an APC or flying the dropship (think helicopter pilots in Vietnam) can put one in harms way.

[SM]

No more than Ripley and Burke who were in the APC.

Combat in the heart of the atmosphere processor always had the potential to cause a major explosion, bullets or not. A slosh of acid blood is a hell of a lot more armour piercing than any pulse rifle round. And regardless of the marines' attitude towards Ripley's story, they'd already seen evidence of what a damaged alien could do to a metal structure.

Hence the no firing order.

[stephen]

No more than Ripley and Burke who were in the APC.

Yes I get that.  But I actually stated in alternate scenarios.  What I meant by that is a different combat operation that has nothing to do with these aliens.  Perhaps a colony uprising or some such who knows.

[SM]

If they knew they were going in hot, they'd probably get Frost to drive, since Bishop would be unable to fire any weapons that could be activated by the driver.

[stephen]

They were going in hot from the outset.

[SM]

They were going in to reccy.  They weren't flying into the middle of an active firefight.

[stephen]

They didn't know what they were flying into. It could have been anything and they still had bishop behind the wheel.  Protocol should have been that a non combatant (as you call him) should not have been driving.

[SiL]

There was no sign they were flying into a combat situation.