Poll: AvP vs AvPR

[MadassAlex]

By the time a post-Aliens time period rolls around, that's 170 years or so after the events of the first AvP. And we can tell, from the flashback, that they've been fighting Aliens for thousands of years prior to that. And even ignoring the films, the games imply a similar time period.

Going by that evidence, the Predators have had thousands of years to develop methods against the Aliens. After all they time, they developed a vision mode, some degree of acid-resistance and bigger weapons. It isn't especially impressive progress, given the radical rate of technological expansion human beings accomplished in the 20th century.

Basically, if they both cared and were capable of learning comprehensively about the Alien, we would have more tangible evidence. You could even assume that Predators are in a state of technological stagnation, and there isn't much evidence against that. Technology certainly doesn't seem to change much in between those thousands of years.

[Ghostface]

Technology wise, no they haven't changed in thousands of years. And this is what I hate about using AVP as an example. It simply destroys the mythology of both species.

According to AVP, predators haven't advanced in technology in thousands of years, Antarctica had a civilisation founded by predators, alien's life cycles are sped up, aliens have extendo tails and can multiply without the need for a host. But hey if thats what we consider canon then so be it.

What baffles me is that you have been comparing the humans in the alien series to predators and trying to claim that the predators knew not a lot more than we do. The difference is that the humans found themselves in a situation they didn't want to be in, against an enemy they knew nothing about, where as the predators create a situation to be in. The humans have always known next to nothing about their enemy, while the predators have havested them purely for the purpose to hunt. To claim that they didn't know anything more about them is ridiculous.

[MadassAlex]

No it isn't.

Say you keep a fox on a leash and let it go to hunt. Your knowledge isn't necessarily better than that of the random person who encounters it -- you just have the better position of it.

Basically, all that Predators need is a safe method of handling the eggs. That's literally it.

[Ghostface]

Through experience they would have learnt a few tactics against the xeno. The marines in aliens didn't even know that the aliens hid in the resin. In fact, a lot of the initial deaths in Aliens was from aliens that emerged from the walls. If humans were to be hunting the xeno for millions of years, and they went in to exterminate the hive on LV-426, wouldn't you think they would have known this was a main vantage point for the xeno? To imply that predators would have no knowledge of such things would be to imply that they pass zero knowledge onto each other.

Oh and the fox thing, If the guy who has the fox on a leash comes from a tribe of people that have hunted and bred foxes for thousands of years, I'd definately say he'd have better knowledge than someone that saw a fox for the first time in the woods.

[MadassAlex]

Through experience they would have learnt a few tactics against the xeno. The marines in aliens didn't even know that the aliens hid in the resin. In fact, a lot of the initial deaths in Aliens was from aliens that emerged from the walls. If humans were to be hunting the xeno for millions of years, and they went in to exterminate the hive on LV-426, wouldn't you think they would have known this was a main vantage point for the xeno? To imply that predators would have no knowledge of such things would be to imply that they pass zero knowledge onto each other.

Predators don't seem to employ tactics against Aliens in most media. Mostly just "stand there, let them come to you and chop them up". The first AvP film and the Rebellion games averted this pretty well, though, especially on higher difficulties.

On the other hand, the marines in Aliens set up chokepoints after their first battle with the Aliens.

Jus' sayin', current materials don't really paint Predators in a positive light concerning this kind of thing.

Oh and the fox thing, If the guy who has the fox on a leash comes from a tribe of people that have hunted and bred foxes for thousands of years, I'd definately say he'd have better knowledge than someone that saw a fox for the first time in the woods.

Probably -- but not necessarily by much. All the knowledge they need is how to breed it and one effective method of containment.

[Ghostface]

Through experience they would have learnt a few tactics against the xeno. The marines in aliens didn't even know that the aliens hid in the resin. In fact, a lot of the initial deaths in Aliens was from aliens that emerged from the walls. If humans were to be hunting the xeno for millions of years, and they went in to exterminate the hive on LV-426, wouldn't you think they would have known this was a main vantage point for the xeno? To imply that predators would have no knowledge of such things would be to imply that they pass zero knowledge onto each other.

Predators don't seem to employ tactics against Aliens in most media. Mostly just "stand there, let them come to you and chop them up". The first AvP film and the Rebellion games averted this pretty well, though, especially on higher difficulties.

On the other hand, the marines in Aliens set up chokepoints after their first battle with the Aliens.

Jus' sayin', current materials don't really paint Predators in a positive light concerning this kind of thing.

Oh and the fox thing, If the guy who has the fox on a leash comes from a tribe of people that have hunted and bred foxes for thousands of years, I'd definately say he'd have better knowledge than someone that saw a fox for the first time in the woods.

Probably -- but not necessarily by much. All the knowledge they need is how to breed it and one effective method of containment.

No your right. Predators aren't painted in a positive light. Neither are aliens for that matter. In fact, most comics and other material reflect the whole Wolf/Xeno dynamic (shudders at the thought).

[FUZION PREDATOR]

I'm with tonyzork on this one.

I agree , with his comparision between the Farmer and the Pred.

I'm ot saying that preds know everything about xeno, but they at least know how to spot, capture, breed, stalk, fight and kill them. With appropriate weapons ,fully acid proof spears, shuriken + multiple visions specially adapt fo xenos (scar green vision mode, and wolf facehuggger /alien slim vision mode)

+ Even young predators like Scar seems to have some primal biology knowledge about the alien.
Example of the deleted scene where Scar has fun , by provoking the inner jaw attack with a dagger stab (the alien corpse that lex killed)

Of course it's not like the preds fully know the aliens (the comparision with the farmer , or exprienced hunter is perfect for me)
But we can at least agree that preds knowledges about aliens are slightly better than humans?

[SiL]

No, we can't.

Because they're never seen doing anything humans couldn't.

Knowing to use acid-proofing, for example -- how does that make their knowledge greater than ours? We know we need acid proofing, it's whether we have access to it that sets us apart, and that has literally nothing to do with knowledge of the Aliens.

We know how to spot them -- look for the acid holes and nest material. We know how to capture them, we did it in Alien³. We know how to breed them, we did that in Alien Resurrection. We know how to kill them just as well as Predators do -- stand the f**k back and open fire. We don't need extra vision modes because we can see using the visible light spectrum, Predators can't.

About the only thing that ever implies they have the least bit more knowledge is Scar playing his gag with the inner jaw. That's it.

[bleau]

No, we can't.

Because they're never seen doing anything humans couldn't.

Knowing to use acid-proofing, for example -- how does that make their knowledge greater than ours? We know we need acid proofing, it's whether we have access to it that sets us apart, and that has literally nothing to do with knowledge of the Aliens.

We know how to spot them -- look for the acid holes and nest material. We know how to capture them, we did it in Alien³. We know how to breed them, we did that in Alien Resurrection. We know how to kill them just as well as Predators do -- stand the f**k back and open fire. We don't need extra vision modes because we can see using the visible light spectrum, Predators can't.

About the only thing that ever implies they have the least bit more knowledge is Scar playing his gag with the inner jaw. That's it.

Depends on the timeline. In AvP the Predators know more than we do, and by time Alien Resurrection comes around we know just as much. Resurrection takes place in the year 2379, and AvP in 2003, thats a big gap. In Alien 3 they did capture the Alien, but I wouldn't call that a successful capture. The company in Resurrection, the United Systems Military did not contain them for long. Capture and containment the Predators must Know.

Weyland Yutani obviously knows all about the Alien's acid, in Aliens, Bishop android researched the facehugger, and came to the conclusion that the acid is not acidic/active once the creature is dead. I am sure that we can only assume that Predator's know more than we do about the Aliens, especially since they hunt them and have been around them longer.

[SM]

WY knew about the acid from Ripley's report.  It's not known how much of Bishop's research survived to get back to network.

[bleau]

WY knew about the acid from Ripley's report.  It's not known how much of Bishop's research survived to get back to network.

Seems like WY would of tried to salvage the android after Riply died.

[SM]

Indeed.  How much was salvageable seems to be unknown though.

[SiL]

In Alien 3 they did capture the Alien, but I wouldn't call that a successful capture.

Of course it was. Thing was locked behind a door and couldn't get out. If Golic hadn't opened the door it would've stayed there. Capture successful.

The company in Resurrection, the United Systems Military did not contain them for long.

And Aliens escape from Predators every. Single. Time. Par for the course.

[#6.0]

In Alien 3 they did capture the Alien, but I wouldn't call that a successful capture.

Of course it was. Thing was locked behind a door and couldn't get out. If Golic hadn't opened the door it would've stayed there. Capture successful.

The company in Resurrection, the United Systems Military did not contain them for long.

And Aliens escape from Predators every. Single. Time. Par for the course.

That was the directors cut, so I do agree with you that it can be done, but not necessarily that it did.

And the Aliens have not escaped every single time. Not nearly. It's just that if they didn't, there wouldn't be a very compelling story. 

And before you go looking to prove that "Aliens escape from Predators every. Single. Time.", let me save you the effort.
Aliens Versus Predator #0-4 1990

In addition, if it were not for the meddlings of humans in Aliens Versus Predator 2010 and Aliens Versus Predator 2 2001

But if you do not count the EU, that's fine. I don't. To me they are more like simulations that actual happenings in the AVPU.

But, in Alien Versus Predator 2004 it is discovered that Predators go all over the galaxies bringing Aliens for the hunt and blooding rituals. If the Aliens always escape, the conjecture can be made that the Predators would not be around very long to hunt them, or stopped hunting them.

[SiL]

That was the directors cut,

There is no director's cut yadda yadda.

And the Aliens have not escaped every single time. Not nearly. It's just that if they didn't, there wouldn't be a very compelling story. 

Yes, every time. Every time we see them in the stories, they escape, or they screw with the Predators. AvP? Queen lets a Queen egg through and the Predators get f**ked over.