Poll: AvP vs AvPR

[StrangeShape]

An affinity for the pizza delivery boy, Omega? 

I wanted him to die...

Me too!

He is one of the 2 most unlikable characters I had ever seen in movies. The guy's not only a looser but also a looser with a huge attitude. First of all, Im tired of that cliche - that every teen hero has to be an outsider hunted by bullies. I guess they do that because they think thats the audience for the movie and that they can identify with them , which completely doesnt work for me because I was never in that situation. But ok, its fine if the kid doesnt get along, it happens, we all knew kids like that in HS. But the problem is that hes a constantly pissed douchebag with a real attitude. You know, no wonder hes an outsider if hes such a rainy cloud. I dont see one friendly or likeable qualities in that guy so no wonder he doesnt have friends or people that like him. You know, if people root for aliens it says something about the movie. To think that the alien series was character driven and character centered, a long time ago when the alien series was still a trilogy

[DoomRulz]

If he didn't have friends or anybody who liked him, why did he hook up with Jesse?

[StrangeShape]

If he didn't have friends or anybody who liked him, why did he hook up with Jesse?

She probably felt sorry for him or simply - she thought he's "hot". Thats pretty much the IT factor for teenage girls. They can forget anything else in the guy and the whole world if the guy is really "hot" looking for them. Its funny that he was a douchebag even to her with his pesky comments. He never said one nice or good thing to her, never.

[DoomRulz]

She referenced old times, which suggested to me that they hooked up earlier on in life. So I doubt it was sympathy alone.

[Valaquen]

Isn't that what happens in teen movies? The hawt chick goes for the dweeb, though she has an asshole boyfriend she doesn't even seem to like?

[DoomRulz]

Yes. But cliches aren't few and far between in any movie. There's a reason why James Cameron can't move past Romeo and Juliet-style fairy tales.

[Valaquen]

Yes. But cliches aren't few and far between in any movie. There's a reason why James Cameron can't move past Romeo and Juliet-style fairy tales.

Hell, Shakespeare stole that. The swine. Problem is how the content is handled, and AVPR went straight for the flat out, cardboard cut out situation, which is why the characters are almost universally hated or just can't find many fans.

[DoomRulz]

That's understandable but singling them out because they're cliched is stupid. I single Avatar out all the time for having a cut-and-paste story which was stolen from at least 3 different films. But cliches are almost unavoidable at this point so there isn't much point to griping about them.

[StrangeShape]

That's understandable but singling them out because they're cliched is stupid. I single Avatar out all the time for having a cut-and-paste story which was stolen from at least 3 different films. But cliches are almost unavoidable at this point so there isn't much point to griping about them.

Thats called a new thing then.If you take 3 existing ingredients and mix them together you have something that hasnt been done before. ALIEN is basically a remake of two other stories. The most memorable franchise are born our of mixing. Not only that, Cameron's intent is to take the old stories and out them in new environment to make them viable and fresh again. As for the fairy tale approach, whats wrong with it? Fairy tales are simple and timeless. Its just a different type of a story and something fresh. We havent have much of that for a long time now, only those "badass" dark, emo semi-intelligent movies with bad endings

While Avatar took from great timeless classics like Pocahontas and Titanic took from Shakespear's masterpiece Romeo and Juliet, AVPR took from 80s teen crap like karate kid or virtually every corny 80s movie with teens. Thats the difference

[Valaquen]

That's understandable but singling them out because they're cliched is stupid. I single Avatar out all the time for having a cut-and-paste story which was stolen from at least 3 different films. But cliches are almost unavoidable at this point so there isn't much point to griping about them.

Cliched is stupid. Re-used is not. Shakespeare re-used plot lines and stories all the time. As did Star Wars, and Alien too, and was even taken to the courts (despite internet myth, Cameron never went to court over Ellison), but the re-used material was handled well. AVPR did not handle it well. Hence the criticism.

[SiL]

Cliched is stupid. Re-used is not.

What do you think a cliché actually is?

[DoomRulz]

That's understandable but singling them out because they're cliched is stupid. I single Avatar out all the time for having a cut-and-paste story which was stolen from at least 3 different films. But cliches are almost unavoidable at this point so there isn't much point to griping about them.

Thats called a new thing then.If you take 3 existing ingredients and mix them together you have something that hasnt been done before. ALIEN is basically a remake of two other stories. The most memorable franchise are born our of mixing. Not only that, Cameron's intent is to take the old stories and out them in new environment to make them viable and fresh again. As for the fairy tale approach, whats wrong with it? Fairy tales are simple and timeless. Its just a different type of a story and something fresh. We havent have much of that for a long time now, only those "badass" dark, emo semi-intelligent movies with bad endings

While Avatar took from great timeless classics like Pocahontas and Titanic took from Shakespear's masterpiece Romeo and Juliet, AVPR took from 80s teen crap like karate kid or virtually every corny 80s movie with teens. Thats the difference

There is no difference. There's zero difference. How the material is used isn't important. The point is that ideas are being rehashed and it sucks. Cameron freshened up old ideas about as well as Requiem did, ergo, zilch.

[StrangeShape]

That's understandable but singling them out because they're cliched is stupid. I single Avatar out all the time for having a cut-and-paste story which was stolen from at least 3 different films. But cliches are almost unavoidable at this point so there isn't much point to griping about them.

Thats called a new thing then.If you take 3 existing ingredients and mix them together you have something that hasnt been done before. ALIEN is basically a remake of two other stories. The most memorable franchise are born our of mixing. Not only that, Cameron's intent is to take the old stories and out them in new environment to make them viable and fresh again. As for the fairy tale approach, whats wrong with it? Fairy tales are simple and timeless. Its just a different type of a story and something fresh. We havent have much of that for a long time now, only those "badass" dark, emo semi-intelligent movies with bad endings

While Avatar took from great timeless classics like Pocahontas and Titanic took from Shakespear's masterpiece Romeo and Juliet, AVPR took from 80s teen crap like karate kid or virtually every corny 80s movie with teens. Thats the difference

There is no difference. There's zero difference. How the material is used isn't important. The point is that ideas are being rehashed and it sucks. Cameron freshened up old ideas about as well as Requiem did, ergo, zilch.

They reused, like every single movie did post 60s or 70s I believe so even singling it out makes no sense if you think about it. What matters is the end result and wheter it works

[Valaquen]

Cliched is stupid. Re-used is not.

What do you think a cliché actually is?

A cliché or cliche (pronounced /kliːʃeɪ/ (klee-shay) in English, but /kli.ʃe/ (klee-shé) in French), is a saying, expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect
You can re-use something and not have it be redundant. Fiction has been doing it for thousands of years. Otherwise, everything is cliched. Shakespeare's Troilus & Cressida must be a cliche, or Hamlet, or Romeo & Juliet if we assume reusing material = cliche.

There is no difference. There's zero difference. How the material is used isn't important. The point is that ideas are being rehashed and it sucks. Cameron freshened up old ideas about as well as Requiem did, ergo, zilch.

If you're talking about Avatar, fine, that was his intention, if you're talking about the Alien and Aliens, then they both reuse old ideas but present them in non-meangingless ways, ie, not cliched.

[SiL]

It depends on where you grab your definition of "cliché" from. The Oxford English Dictionary includes the definitions of basically anything (Although particularly phrases, plots, and characterisation) that is stereotyped and/or overused.

It's not a dirty word. Calling something a cliché doesn't necessary mean something bad unless the user wants it to. Alien is clichéd all to hell, but it just does everything better than what came before it, so people don't care. Same with a lot of movies.