Terminator Syndrome

[Infected]

Hahaha Genisys as the true sequel,
it sits nicely next to Jurassic World as the next installment garbage in a franchise.
And Alien 5 would only have a green light if it matches those profiles nicely,
set for the masses set for box office numbers.
It doesnt matter if a Blomkamp is involved or a Biehn or Weaver,
they will want to see numbers.
And you wont get those numbers if you only satisfy the fans with slow paced moving.
No they wanna have a rollercoaster ride when watching, and lets face it the xeno isnt scary anymore,
and even a nest of them will only bring out the guns, so another Aliens/Starship Troopers type movie is more likely then a real Alien movie with the mystery and the magic.
So be ready for Weaver in a jockey/xeno type suit, doing jumps and petting xeno's

I'm talking story wise, its a sequel to Judgement Day and it was Cameron who called it the real 3rd movie in the franchise so no need for dramatics or nerd rage on your behalf. Just a discussion. 

Story wise...when they are in the chopper and they take out the terminator John in his chopper, and they arrive at Genisys and terminator John is also already there, yet he got shot down and they fly with their chopper so that means he is faster in the water then they are in the air. just to name somethings.

Calling someone a nerd on a sci fi forum is really the dumbest ive ever heard, but besides that,
if Cameron calls it that thats fine by me, its not that he will call the movie a piece of garbage, he just wont do that to his friend Arnold,
and its not a gentlemans style, and if it really was Camerons opinion then it doesnt mean its a fact. LoL
Its in nowhere a sequel to the Terminator 1 and 2 its just a mash up just like all the shit thats coming out lately.
And Jason Clarke as John Connor and Jai Courtney as Kyle Reese.....LoL how bad are they casted and how irritating actors they are.


And Alien 5 just aint gonna be something better then the crap we are getting lately,
look at Alien: Isolation, good game, nice scare stuff but the xenomorph was the stupidist thing in the game, it was only scary because you couldnt hurt it and he Always popped up when you move to fast and the scare factor came from that, not that it was a xenomorph.
Hell even the worker Joe's where more terrifying then the alien.
If you wanna be scary then you have to make something people can relate to, situations where you have to move out of something fast or cant breath for a short time, getting in a spacesuit fast but quietly all these things....these are old and classic scare and nail biting factors, and look around...nobody at the moment can bring that and isnt bringin that.

[whiterabbit]

T2 didn't stop judgement day, all the movies assert that somethings are just bound to happen.

What you are saying is that even after the ending of T2, where all of the data and physical evidence of the Terminator is destroyed, Judgment day still happened in 1997.  Cyberdyne would have had to rebuilt everything from scratch in only two years for that to work. No way.

Besides, if Judgement day is bound to happen no matter what then in Genisys Connerbot wouldn't have needed to be sent back in time to ensure that Cyberdyne builds skynet. 

At the moment I'm not chalking up those ridiculously stupid and impossible feats of superhuman ability to shitty writing. They surely have got to know better than that and because it looked cool doesn't cut it.

You are giving the writers WAY too much credit my friend.

Yea, probably true about the credit part... but yea judgment day happened in 1997 even after the events of T2. I think of it like this, sure cyberdyne got a hold of the first terminator's cpu and arm from a future machine but that doesn't mean it is the father of skynet. The same as kyle reese, a future human being could not possibly be the original father of John Conner UNLESS all of this is preordained. Which I don't think it's meant to be. So who ever was the original developer of skynet may have still been chugging away at development in parallel with Mile Dyson's altered reality when cyberdyne went boom.

Put it another way, Miles was working on hardware that is not possible till long after judgement day happened, someone else was highly likely working on the software than lead to skynets development. However I'm not sure of anything from TG's perspective because they never talked about it, except that the war happened in 1997 and was only altered while Conner was being killed while Kyle was in the TDF, which gave him access to the memories of the new timeline and new judgement day of 2017. Still the time that kyle was intending to travel back to was T1, it was changed in the process of heading back but none the less that is why I look at it as still having to have happened. If T1 never happened, that would mean that skynet never invented timetravel, ever.

[Infected]

How so? In the movie itself it is assumed that both T1 and T2 happened before the T5000 interfered.

Because, Genisys opens with Kyle Reese stating that judgement day happened in 1997 and there is no way for Judgment day to happen in 1997 given how T2 ended. The chip is destroyed, the arm as well, and all the research. Hell, Even in Genisys its shown that when they destroy the terminator from 1987 Judgment day was completely averted.  So much so that the future Skynet from the alternate universe had to send the Connerbot to give cyberdyne all the info to create skynet from scratch.

But even if the T1 and T-1000 and chip where destroyed.
Skynet exists in the future so its impossible to stop that timeline just with the destruction of the T's and the chip and arm,
thats 2d thinking, timelines are 3d stuff.

[whiterabbit]

Getting back on topic... I hope they don't pull this TG shit with Alien 5.

NO TIME TRAVEL NONSENSE!

[marrerom]

The same as kyle reese, a future human being could not possibly be the original father of John Conner UNLESS all of this is preordained.

Well, the first film is meant to be a time paradox. No beginning and no end. A loop.  T2 breaks the loop and starts a new timeline that deletes the old one.

Which I don't think it's meant to be. So who ever was the original developer of skynet may have still been chugging away at development in parallel with Mile Dyson's altered reality when cyberdyne went boom.

I'm not quite sure I get what you're saying.  You think that there was a hidden scientist or something that was also developing skynet opposite of Dyson? What evidence do you have of this?

Getting back on topic... I hope they don't pull this TG shit with Alien 5.

NO TIME TRAVEL NONSENSE!

Agreed.

[whiterabbit]

Well it depends entirely on the accepted in universe physical reality. However lets just say that there is a "beginning" to everything, a single unaltered and pure time that leads right up to the moment skynet firsts decides to use it's time machine to send the T-800 back in time. Before the events of any of the movies. Lets also assume that skynets sole propose is to change it's present moment's circumstances without knowing what will happen by doing so. In this case the first John Conner that defeats skynet is not fathered by Kyle nor is skynet fathered by the left overs of the original terminator sent back in time. That would mean two things, someone else invented skynet and someone else other than Kyle is the father of the first John Conner. Meaning both the original creator(s) of skynet and conner are very likely alive at the start of the Terminator. Then the events roll out from there. Through tampering the story is fiddle with and characters change but the grand plot always stays the same. John is born, judgement day happens and skynet dies. Cameron hinted at this by suggesting that the "kinda cool" man that taught John Military tactics before his mom screwed it up was probably the original biological father of John Conner, but because Kyle as an outside influence banged John's Mom instead he got demoted from genetic host to intellectual host. Hell considering Kyle told Sarah that she and John went into hiding before the war it's obvious that this was not the first time kyle was sent back. Like that time paradox loop you mentioned. The events of T1 had to have happened at least once before the first movie. Unless Sarah and John got wind of it the first go around somehow that alerted them to seek shelter before judgement day 1.0.

Oh snap, John Conners original father is the creator of both John Conner and Skynet.

[marrerom]

Hell considering Kyle told Sarah that she and John went into hiding before the war it's obvious that this was not the first time Kyle was sent back. Like that time paradox loop you mentioned. The events of T1 had to have happened at least once before the first movie. Unless Sarah and John got wind of it the first go around somehow that alerted them to seek shelter before judgement day 1.0.

This is explained in the novelization. Basically up to a certain point the events of T2 were part of the original time loop. If you check out this site you'll get the info you're looking for: http://jamescamerononline.com/T2Ending.htm

Here's the most relevant quote for you:

But weren't the events of T2 predestined as well since in 2029 John had sent the T-800 back right after Reese to protect himself in the past from T-1000? To a certain point only. According to the novelization (written by very close, life long friend of Cameron who was also involved in both Terminator films), the events of T2 were predestined up to the point where the trio arrived at the Salceda Ranch. In the predestined timeline, the trio went down South as planned and waited the war there. In the events shown in the movie, what was different this time was that Sarah had the nightmare at the ranch which made her decide to change the future and kill Miles Dyson, hence the alteration in the events from that point on. Whether a divine intervention or something else, the dream did not occur before

So basically it seems an unknown force/event caused Sarah to have the dream which lead to the breaking of the time loop.

[System Apollo]

Thinking about how time travel could be used to create the new alternate alien 3, perhaps with every known specimen of the xenomorph destroyed after alien 3, the big evil corporation manages to create time travel, however it's very primitive and dangerous making them reluctant to use it and only for select objectives with minimal chances of distorting the timeline.

One of their objectives is the acquisition of live xenomorph specimens, leading to them retrieving the eggs from the sulaco before they cause the fire, leaving the survivors of aliens intact and deleting alien 3

This makes a surprising amount of sense.

[marrerom]

Thinking about how time travel could be used to create the new alternate alien 3, perhaps with every known specimen of the xenomorph destroyed after alien 3, the big evil corporation manages to create time travel, however it's very primitive and dangerous making them reluctant to use it and only for select objectives with minimal chances of distorting the timeline.

One of their objectives is the acquisition of live xenomorph specimens, leading to them retrieving the eggs from the sulaco before they cause the fire, leaving the survivors of aliens intact and deleting alien 3

This makes a surprising amount of sense.

As a plot device I like it. Its similar to X-men: Days of future past. My only gripe is that If the Company can use time travel then why would they want to acquire the Aliens anymore? As far as practical military purposes go controlling time would be far better then using Aliens as bio-weapons. 

I'd have it relate to the Engineers instead.  Set the premise up so that when the atmospheric processor exploded and the derelict was destroyed in the blast a rip was made in space-time. This could be due to the technology of the Engineers being activated or something by the blast. Have it be a schrödinger's cat type deal where two different realities were created at that moment.One where Alien 3 took place and one where Blomkamp's Alien film does instead.

[Xenomorphine]

There were ways for Cyberdyne to have sparked Judgement day after the second film. The arm which the T-800 severed from itself, in order to escape, for instance. I also thought it obvious that it would have had off-site back-ups of all data.

Regardless, I don't think this has much of a relevance to the next 'Alien' film.

[System Apollo]

Regardless, I don't think this has much of a relevance to the next 'Alien' film.

It was still very entertaining!   

As a plot device I like it. Its similar to X-men: Days of future past. My only gripe is that If the Company can use time travel then why would they want to acquire the Aliens anymore? As far as practical military purposes go controlling time would be far better then using Aliens as bio-weapons. 

>>

however it's very primitive and dangerous making them reluctant to use it and only for select objectives with minimal chances of distorting the timeline.

I'd have it relate to the Engineers instead.  Set the premise up so that when the atmospheric processor exploded and the derelict was destroyed in the blast a rip was made in space-time. This could be due to the technology of the Engineers being activated or something by the blast. Have it be a schrödinger's cat type deal where two different realities were created at that moment.One where Alien 3 took place and one where Blomkamp's Alien film does instead.

I dunno... Playing with the idea of having engineers in the film might be risky. Especially seeing as we are having a sequel of Prometheus coming up.

[razeak]

Well it depends entirely on the accepted in universe physical reality. However lets just say that there is a "beginning" to everything, a single unaltered and pure time that leads right up to the moment skynet firsts decides to use it's time machine to send the T-800 back in time. Before the events of any of the movies. Lets also assume that skynets sole propose is to change it's present moment's circumstances without knowing what will happen by doing so. In this case the first John Conner that defeats skynet is not fathered by Kyle nor is skynet fathered by the left overs of the original terminator sent back in time. That would mean two things, someone else invented skynet and someone else other than Kyle is the father of the first John Conner. Meaning both the original creator(s) of skynet and conner are very likely alive at the start of the Terminator. Then the events roll out from there. Through tampering the story is fiddle with and characters change but the grand plot always stays the same. John is born, judgement day happens and skynet dies. Cameron hinted at this by suggesting that the "kinda cool" man that taught John Military tactics before his mom screwed it up was probably the original biological father of John Conner, but because Kyle as an outside influence banged John's Mom instead he got demoted from genetic host to intellectual host. Hell considering Kyle told Sarah that she and John went into hiding before the war it's obvious that this was not the first time kyle was sent back. Like that time paradox loop you mentioned. The events of T1 had to have happened at least once before the first movie. Unless Sarah and John got wind of it the first go around somehow that alerted them to seek shelter before judgement day 1.0.

Oh snap, John Conners original father is the creator of both John Conner and Skynet.

I've been seeing it this way for quite a while. We tried to grapb it on a marker board, but aanted to burn the whole building down by the time we gave up tryi g to fit 3 and 4 in lol.

[whiterabbit]

No novels/comics/games please. All I care about is what happens in the movies. 

Even though 3 is flawed it did the one thing that it needed and that was to have someone say "judgement day is inevitable". 4 happens the way it did because of the delay in judgement day and shitty writing. Motor-terminators, need I say more.

[blood.]

Thinking about how time travel could be used to create the new alternate alien 3, perhaps with every known specimen of the xenomorph destroyed after alien 3, the big evil corporation manages to create time travel, however it's very primitive and dangerous making them reluctant to use it and only for select objectives with minimal chances of distorting the timeline.

One of their objectives is the acquisition of live xenomorph specimens, leading to them retrieving the eggs from the sulaco before they cause the fire, leaving the survivors of aliens intact and deleting alien 3

This makes a surprising amount of sense.

As a plot device I like it. Its similar to X-men: Days of future past. My only gripe is that If the Company can use time travel then why would they want to acquire the Aliens anymore? As far as practical military purposes go controlling time would be far better then using Aliens as bio-weapons. 

Well, when I wrote that the intention was for time travel to be too unstable and using it is like playing Russian roulette, not only in it's dangerous unstable function of tearing time apart to send someone through, but also the risk of the time traveler creating a paradox and ripping apart the universe itself. Perhaps a failed test in deep space resulted in a distant star cluster being destroyed prior to the film and only the aftermath is visited...

Also I was thinking the aliens were just one of many different objectives the company had designed time travel for... a side mission so to speak, with minimal calculated risk of tearing apart the universe.

[FreeFacehugz]

You don't understand the concept of continuity. 

producer had to say, as if they never talk shit.

David Ellison owns the studio that made the film. He chose the writers, director, and actors as well. He knows more about this film then anyone. To ignore his clear intent on this film is foolish.

It is explained IN THE MOVIE that they are changing the timeline. They are pretty much saying "we are preventing T2 from happening right now by doing this exact thing!" IN THE MOVIE. Its part of the same cannon but with a changed timeline IN THE MOVIE.

I'm going to put this on you now, ok?  You say Genisys is a sequel to T2. Prove it. Explain how the events of T2 lead to the opening of Genisys. I really want to know.

T2 never states that it averted Judgement day. They did what they could but we never even get to see 1997. The movie ends in 1995. Anything could happen in the 2 years after that. It could even be shown in the next movie. There is also the point that there could be a timeline without Kyle and T800 being sent back were Cyberdyne creates Skynet by themselves and John Conors father was some dude from the 80's. Miles Dyson was possibly also on the brink of cracking the code or whatever of the chip in T2, Advancing Judgment Day to 95/96. Dyson was probaly already working on the program that would be called Skynet before being pulled of the project to study this strange technology. Them destroying his work just reset it back to 97. Dyson after all did not even know were the thing came from. He asked that question once and was told "don't ask". So him being in the dark about Cyberdyn's true knowledge and goals shows us that all they could do was to try and stop it, but Judgment Day is inevitable. Skynets sees its own demise, sends T3000 Conor back to guide Cyberdyne instead on the new APP Skynet that will produce the future T5000.

This added with the fact that the first part of the movie is, now this is very important, SHOT FOR SHOT the first movie until the timeline shifts, added with returning characters and terminators from the first 2 movies. To me, and the creator of the franchise who knows more about the entire franchise than anyone, this is a sequel to T1 and T2.

Hahaha Genisys as the true sequel,
it sits nicely next to Jurassic World as the next installment garbage in a franchise.
And Alien 5 would only have a green light if it matches those profiles nicely,
set for the masses set for box office numbers.
It doesnt matter if a Blomkamp is involved or a Biehn or Weaver,
they will want to see numbers.
And you wont get those numbers if you only satisfy the fans with slow paced moving.
No they wanna have a rollercoaster ride when watching, and lets face it the xeno isnt scary anymore,
and even a nest of them will only bring out the guns, so another Aliens/Starship Troopers type movie is more likely then a real Alien movie with the mystery and the magic.
So be ready for Weaver in a jockey/xeno type suit, doing jumps and petting xeno's

I'm talking story wise, its a sequel to Judgement Day and it was Cameron who called it the real 3rd movie in the franchise so no need for dramatics or nerd rage on your behalf. Just a discussion. 

Calling someone a nerd on a sci fi forum is really the dumbest ive ever heard

Im sorry but I was under the impression that most of us here are nerds to some extent? I'm not offended by the term and I didnt mean it in an offencive way. I was reffering to the anger or "rage"  rant at Terminator Genisys and the future Alien movie.