Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PM
In the writers' audio commentary, co-writer Damon Lindelof states "For me, Prometheus was all about making an Alien-Blade Runner mash-up, using the best themes from both movies and dropping them all into the same world." With this in mind, one could read the film as a reversal of the hefty metaphysical strife of Blade Runner. Crucially, Lindelof articulates that Prometheus is about a human who goes to ask his creator for more life whereas, in Blade Runner, it was the replicant Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) who desired the same goal from his maker. (Edon Tyrell)
While this is a conceptually sound idea, the execution is infuriating in its sheer amateurishness.
Well thought out comments.
I'd add that another movie which was said to influence "Prometheus" was Kubrick's "2001".
QuoteRidley Scott himself once teased Prometheus as "2001 on steroids."
http://www.ign.com/wikis/prometheus/2001So, the list of influences include; "2001", "Blade Runner" and "Alien".
However, I don't think that anyone (with rare exception) is claiming that "Prometheus" is better than those 3 movies.
And that leads to a divide between many viewers.
- Some are appalled that "Prometheus" references these classic movies.
- Others appreciate that "Prometheus" is an homage to those classic films.
It's a personal taste thing of course.
And the lens of personal taste, without judgement, will be a theme throughout my comment.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PM
At its worst, Prometheus indulges in a fetishism for vagueness, a trait that emphatically espouses clarity as a troublesome menace to good writing,
This is an expectation from Ridley about his audience for some of his science fiction; mainly "Blade Runner" and "Prometheus".
Ridley only wants to reveal so much.
That is a curse or a blessing depending on the viewer.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMCulturally, it is truly poisoning the movies; turning them from engaging pieces of art to novelty items that are supposedly orgasmic in their surprises. Instead, they are about as clever as a ten-year-old shouting boo.
Speaking of 10 year olds, there is a debate about what is a good big budget adventure / science fiction film.
- A recent critical darling is "Mad Max Fury Road" which has a simple plot with simple dialogue with cool special effects and a cliched story.
Brilliant some will say and that is partly because a parent may add that their 10 year old can understand it.
- "Prometheus" caters to a different kind of viewer.
They know a 10 year old will not be able easily grasp its meaning.
Whether this is good or bad, again of course is in the eye of the beholder.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMPeter Weyland (Guy Pierce) is the man in Prometheus who seeks his creator's wisdom to eternal life. However, his role in the film is regulated to a cameo as Lindelof considers his constant presence as detrimental to his vision of inane mysteries.
A person can think a certain kind of mystery is inane. It's anyone's privilege to have that opinion.
- But the concept of the antogonist, who appears dead, has a long history in mystery fiction, beginning with Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None".
The trope has recently been used in the Robert Downey Jr. "Sherlock Holmes" film and several times in the Cumberbatch "Sherlock" TV series.
- So an alternative view is to appreciate this story idea.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMBlade Runner's power came from Roy Batty's violent and rhapsodic presence as well as a desire that blurred the line between human and android. Moreover, Batty truly learnt the value of mortality in his mournfully reflective final moments. By comparison, Weyland barely registers as a human being...
David perceives Weyland as an obstacle to what he understands as freedom, slyly surmised when he says, "Doesn't everyone want their parents dead."
Imo this is a valid point about the "father / son" relationships in "Blade Runner" and "Prometheus".
- Roy's rebellion against his "father" is direct and brutal. And It represents a fight against a greater cause of oppression where human clones are sold as slaves.
- David's resistance to Weyland is more passive aggressive and personal.
As he smiles David leads the old man into a situation which will likely lead to death.
David wishes his parent to be dead but he can't do the killing.
* "Blade Runner" is the superior version imo.
But that gets back to the above point. Is an influence terrible or is the homage appreciated?
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMHowever, Meredith Vickers' (Charlize Theron) relationship with her father, which is chiefly illustrated in a scene with Weyland in the third act feels superficial and sketchily developed. Theron's best moment of acting is when she expresses her admiration for Weyland in the past along with her current source of disdain for the old man. The manner of her delivery and body language (in the moment she is kneeling down at her father's side and placing her face on his hand) puts one in mind of the process of growing up; as it showcases a child's shifting relationship to their parents; going from sweet and idealistic admiration to bitter resentment over minor differences. Sadly, the moment is not present in the finished film, and consequently, the scene in its current incarnation feels like a race towards an eyebrow-raising revelation.
How much information does the audience need?
Ridley likes a shorthand style which can irritate or be appreciated by the viewer.
For some Vickers is a missed opportunity.
For me? I thought the themes with her character and the dad issues were developed enough in the theatrical cut.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMOne does get the distinct impression that the third act of Prometheus collapses under the weight of its hide and seek antics. The most emblematic aspect of this quality comes from the portrait of the Engineers whose presence were scaled back as the production of the film wore on. In particular, a scene when an Engineer converses with David was cut because Lindloff found "it robbed him of any coolness or mystery." The opening sequence originally had a number of the humanoid aliens and a striking moment in the initially shot final confrontation had the lone Engineer observe a flickering colour projection of a young girl playing the violin. Contrary to the co-writers' sentiment, the incomplete portrayal serves only to make the apparent divine beings seem like generic slasher movie fare as opposed to the fascinating creatures who were ascetically inspired by the works of Michelangelo.
Interesting. Many fans of slasher moves complain that "Prometheus" greatly missed the mark in that area.
This has been one of the most consistent criticisms of the movie on the Internet.
- I can understand the desire to have the deleted scenes about the Engineers put into a director's cut.
Still, I don't see the absence of that turning "Prometheus" into a generic slasher film.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMIn other regards, Prometheus is incredibly postmodern in its approach. The underhanded machinations of the corporate sleazes from the franchise are given overt life by Vickers. The basketball scene from Alien Resurrection is amusingly homaged here; proving that whether one is a Xenomorph/human hybrid or android that your physical prowess is proven by scoring a stupefyingly hard basket.
Agreed.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMMore noteworthy is the film retaining a quality that has permeated the series and imbuing it with a striking immediacy. The Alien films have always had a subtle judgement of humanity...
Interesting analysis.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMIn Prometheus, David proves to be a constant source of judgement as his various responses towards the crew carry an underlying sense of delight at the fact that he is not a human being. A particularly amusing moment is when he says "Hopefully not too close" when responding to Charlie Holloway (Logan Marshall-Green) about simulated humanity.
Yes. This goes back to my comment about David and Weyland.
David has an agenda. It is just very passive but still has a deadly edge to it.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMIn the context of the many androids that have pervaded cinema; David is less Pinocchio then a curious entity with negative intentions.
Yes. David is a fascinating character imo.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMPrometheus' sumptuous visuals and direction make humanity seem like an inconsequential species; the potent fear comes from the sheer unknown of meeting our makers. To this end, the picture achieves a certain amount of awe and terrifying wonder in its speculative musings. Humanity has never looked less worthy of consideration in any other Alien picture. The title ship looks like an insect while its travel through the galaxy as overarching clouds and looming landscapes diminishes its scientific and technological endeavour.
That view works for me.
This insignificance of earth's humanity, in the greater scheme, is echoed in some of David's comments.
It seems that he has the best grasp of what the Engineers are about and it seems humans are not very important in the grand design of the galaxy.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMDespite this, the psychosexual subtext of Prometheus is lacking. Elizabeth Shaw cannot give birth and a plot point results in her removing an alien foetus from her belly. The sequence is undeniably great in its feverish intensity because of its uses of close-ups and graphic detail. Nevertheless, the permeating idea seems to be uninteresting and has the same amount import as someone shrugging their shoulders and saying in a detached manner, life is tough. Whereas, in Alien the subtext is tapping into instances of grotesque interspecies violations and a genuine horror of gender swapping birth.
In terms of the rape theme, this is central to "Alien".
But that is not at the core of "Prometheus" imo.
- Instead the bigger idea has to do with space aliens as "gods" where they don't seem to care about the longterm survival of humans.
This slides into the angry god or evil god themes.
- The fear in "Prometheus" then is not that a monster will rape you by shoving something down your throat.
Instead the fear is more of an overall dread, that these super aliens / gods could squash earth's humans like a bug (covering earth with a black goo mist).
And that humanity on earth only escaped extinction by luck.
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMThe lingering existential question of Prometheus is what does the seemingly divine dimension add to the franchise? The answer may come in Alien Convent or the various other planned instalments...
What did "Prometheus" do?
James Cameron wanted to film a xenomorph invasion of earth movie. That was vetoed by Sigourney.
She also vetoed a film about visiting a xenomorph planet.
And Weaver got rid of Hicks and Newt.
- The result was that a later Alien movie had to star Sigouney with no other main character.
And the story had to be about people being stuck in a confined space (a prison or station) while a xenomorph(s) hunted them.
* Now, I know that some people love that limitation and repetition in Alien 3 & 4. And I enjoy those movie to a certain extent.
But for those who want more variety (like me), "Prometheus" opened the scope of an Alien franchise film to a galactic scale.
And it added more that could happen beyond a basic hunt.
"Prometheus" considers our place in this universe, who our creator is and whether it has hostile intentions or not.
** I want to repeat that I enjoyed your review.