Scott: We are going to make another Alien movie

[bb-15]

This. I personally don't have a big problem with their behavior, even though I'm longing for smart characters more and more, but Scott can't just insist that they are scientists and the best in their fields when he does not portray the characters like scientists at all.

In the Alien movies the scientists/science officers/knowledgeable characters sometimes don't act in a reasonable way (imo based on my university education).
- These films have fictional characters which serve the story.
Their behavior may imitate actions by people in our world but just as often the characters are following horror/action/adventure cliches.

* Any time a space alien creature is in contact with humans there is a chance of airborne infection. Space aliens can have viruses / bacteria where a human can have no immunity. 
- One of the first alien / human science fiction contact stories was "War of the Worlds". And in that novel, the aliens died because of this problem, disease from a different species which for them was humanity.

** Let's apply this idea of virus / bacteria precautions in some Alien movies.

* "Alien"; Xenomorph is inside the ship. No one is wearing helmets. (I'll put Ash aside since he didn't care if the crew died.)
But Ripley is no dummy and she had expertise with quarantine protocols.
This is elementary science to try to prevent airborne infection.
Precaution fail.

* "Aliens"; the Xenomorph Queen is found which is an unknown alien creature.
Again, Ripley knows quarantine procedure. But she, Newt, the Marines, Burke don't wear helmets on LV-426.
Precaution fail.

* "Prometheus"; here we have the only test of the air in the tunnels for bacteria / impurities with the instruments of David, Ford and Holloway.
It turned out that Holloway's theory was right, the air was being cleaned by Engineer tech. David confirmed the safety of the tunnel air later in the movie with Weyland.
This was the only time where the air in an Alien franchise movie was tested and found to be safe.
Precaution win.

* "Covenant"; There is an unknown planet and the instruments show that the air is clean.
What is the problem? Deadly mold spores infected with black goo. It's not an air problem but an animal attack problem.
This is similar to a classic Star Trek trope where the crew goes to a planet; it seems to be safe but some plant attacked the crew.
Precaution fail.

* But the worst scientist fail I leave for "Alien 4" where a scientist puts 3 Xenomorphs in the same cage for an experiment.
Xenomorphs carry a large set of razor sharp teeth which could easily cut into the flesh of another creature even by accident causing it to bleed.
The Xenos also have acid blood which can eat through any substance made by humanity, even futuristic / advanced humanity.
- Logically from a science perspective, the experiment would never have more than one Xeno in a cage.
Triple precaution fail.

* But taking all precautions is not the purpose of these movies. Almost all of the characters are supposed to die.
So the story has certain basic precautions being ignored.
(Also, no helmets allows characters to be more easy to see.)
Sometimes precaution fails are there so the characters will die.

* Considering that; I don't see "Covenant" or "Prometheus" being any worse that the previous Alien films in terms of the crews taking unnecessary risks.

[No Name]

@ParanoidAndroid

Your post is based on assumptions that result from knowing the plot, rather than how people act in real life. Decades of known information indeed guarantee the disregard bare bones quarantine measures, which is exactly why they are disregarded right now. You're currently not wearing a hazmat suit because you lived on this planet long enough to know you won't get infected with an alien organism.

I get what you're saying, but the situation in the film is still contextually too different than what you're describing imo.

The context of the Alien universe, which you mention, is, again, something you know. Not something the characters know. You know there are unknown entities in this universe, but the characters work under the assumption that there aren't any; That only crazy people even talk about that type of stuff. Which is why nobody is buying Ripley's story. The Colonial Marines sent there aren't a high level response - they're a low level response. Which is why they send a bunch of grunts led by a noob officer.

I don't agree with this. What about the Arcturians? What about Hudson mentioning the mission being "another bug hunt"? What about Weyland Corp's understanding that extraterrestrial entities do indeed exist (hence the SO?). Just because they don't buy Ripley's specific story doesn't automatically mean there is no chance of other alien entities (with which there has not yet been an encounter) becoming a potential threat. Or am I to believe the USMC in this universe is self-contradictory?

I also don't get the "low-level" response angle. Its still a Military platoon that is sufficiently equipped to engage an enemy. Gorman's presence was due to Burke if I'm not mistaken.

You seem to be working under the assumption that whenever communication is lost with a person or place, people run in there wearing hazmat suits (cause, I mean, it could be due to aliens, right?). Nobody does that. You get hazmat suits when you know for a fact that you're dealing with an alien organism because only then the situation might change, as is the case in the scene from The Mist you previously mentioned.

This is not what I'm assuming. I'm not assuming that hazmat suits are needed "whenever communication is lost with a person or place". But in this particular instance, I do believe the overall situation warranted it.

In comparison, knowingly walking into an alien environment you expect to be vulnerable to all kinds of threats, from microbes your immune system can't handle to literal alien organisms you've never encountered. This much has been common knowledge at the very least since the discovery of America. There's also the meta element at play here, where exposure to an alien environment simply due the air being breathable has been a source for criticism against the previous film, yet they go even further with this stupidity in Covenant.

Yes, I never defended Covenant in this regard.

@The Cruentus:

This. The known issue as far as everyone but Ripley and Burke knew was that they simply lost contact with the colony, sure it could have been anything from simple transmitter issue to "possibly" alien plague or some viral pathogen outbreak but they would have no reason to think the latter because the moon was a known and surveryed area and before then, the rock was dead with no indigneous life.
Plus even after the atmosphere processor was up and running, it was still a dead and lifeless rock, it would be unlikely for pathogens to be there because viruses require living organsism to function, and since the planet was completely dead up until the few decades worth of colonization, it would be unlikely something evolved in that time to infect someone.

This does not exclude external influences such as the Xeno.

However, I personally would have given the moon a good recon with every possible scanner first.
But it is understandable they didn't because in real life, I don't think they send the CDC or hazmat teams simply because one loses contact with an established base, especially if they have been given some intel of a physical threat, The Marines were given some intel by Ripley so they knew or at least considered that the threat was physical and not viral

You cannot compare this situation reliably with real life. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to have at least one additional layer of safety precaution of wearing hazmat suits when dealing with dangerous alien lifeforms. The point on the Marines receiving some intel by Ripley is contradictory. If the intel is anything to go by, it would be presumptuous on the part of the USMC to assume the threat is entirely physical with no chance of any viral attributes developing overtime in such an organism. Didn't Ripley mention they have acid for blood?

What would 'small-scale but specialised investigation unit' being investigating?  A downed transmitter?

So a military platoon is needed for looking into a downed transmitter? Not sure I understood your question correctly.

I recall there being some background info about why the Marines were sent there and it was to do with them being a small group who were en route either to or from R&R, during a campaign elsewhere. It was logistically the best solution to get an armed force there quickest. If I remember rightly it was from that Colonial Marines Technical Manual book. Anyone who has it care to correct or confirm?

I'll concede the point on why Marines were sent instead of a smaller team if this is indeed the case.

[Ingwar]

Guys, let's be honest. Covenant is the last Scott Alien movie and there is no way they gonna make sequel. Just the feeling.

I don't know if anyone has asked that question before but why there was only one lander aboard Covenant which was the colonisation ship. Or have I missed something?

[Still Collating...]

This. I personally don't have a big problem with their behavior, even though I'm longing for smart characters more and more, but Scott can't just insist that they are scientists and the best in their fields when he does not portray the characters like scientists at all.

In the Alien movies the scientists/science officers/knowledgeable characters sometimes don't act in a reasonable way (imo based on my university education).
- These films have fictional characters which serve the story.
Their behavior may imitate actions by people in our world but just as often the characters are following horror/action/adventure cliches.

* Any time a space alien creature is in contact with humans there is a chance of airborne infection. Space aliens can have viruses / bacteria to which a can human have no immunity. 
- One of the first alien / human science fiction contact stories was "War of the Worlds". And in that novel, the aliens died because of this problem, disease from a different species which for them was humanity.

** Let's apply this idea of virus / bacteria precautions in some Alien movies.

* "Alien"; Xenomorph is inside the ship. No one is wearing helmets. (I'll put Ash aside since he didn't care if the crew died.)
But Ripley is no dummy and she had expertise with quarantine protocols.
This is elementary science to try to prevent airborne infection.
Precaution fail.

* "Aliens"; the Xenomorph Queen is found which is an unknown alien creature.
Again, Ripley knows quarantine procedure. But she, Newt, the Marines, Burke don't wear helmets on LV-426.
Precaution fail.

* "Prometheus"; here we have the only test of the air in the tunnels for bacteria / impurities with the instruments of David, Ford and Holloway.
It turned out that Holloway's theory was right, the air was being cleaned by Engineer tech. David confirmed the safety of the tunnel air later in the movie with Weyland.
This was the only time where the air in an Alien franchise movie was tested and found to be safe.
Precaution win.

* "Covenant"; There is an unknown planet and the instruments show that the air is clean.
What is the problem? Deadly mold spores infected with black goo. It's not an air problem but an animal attack problem.
This is similar to a classic Star Trek trope where the crew goes to a planet; it seems to be safe but some plant attacked the crew.
Precaution fail.

* But the worst scientist fail I leave for "Alien 4" where a scientist puts 3 Xenomorphs in the same cage for an experiment.
Xenomorphs carry a large set of razor sharp teeth which could easily cut into the flesh of another creature even by accident causing it to bleed.
The Xenos also have acid blood which can eat through any substance made by humanity, even futuristic / advanced humanity.
- Logically from a science perspective, the experiment would never have more than one Xeno in a cage.
Triple precaution fail.

* But taking all precautions is not the purpose of these movies. Almost all of the characters are supposed to die.
So the story has certain basic precautions being ignored.
(Also, no helmets allows characters to be more easy to see.)
Sometimes precaution fails are there so the characters will die.

* Considering that; I don't see "Covenant" or "Prometheus" being any worse that the previous Alien films in terms of the crews taking unnecessary risks.

I actually agree with all your points. Especially about Alien Rez, which is what I was getting at. Those "scientists" acted more naive than any of the previous characters IMO. And they should be more cautious than any other non scientific personnel in the previous movies.

That's exactly why I don't like Scott proclaiming in Covenant (maybe even in Prometheus) that they are mostly all scientists and "the best of the best". That is very different to space truckers and overconfident military grunts.

I personally don't believe the crew of the Prometheus and Covenant are the biggest idiots ever seen. As you pointed out, in the previous 4 movies characters have just as well made not the smartest decisions and I either don't notice it at first or it just doesn't bother me because I want to enjoy the movies, including Prometheus and Covenant.
But it does irk me when Scott says his new characters are the best of the best when they are clearly not shown to be and are not in any way more professional than the characters in the previous movies which have clearly shown how human fallacy and ignorance brought them down.
I have no problem with the characters in the prequels, just with the part about them being the best of the best. 

What I wanted to say in my previous post as well was I'd just like to see a new movie where the characters make smart or even the smartest possible decisions and still lose to the alien and other antagonists. Just out of curiosity, why not have characters make smarter decisions than their occupation requires from them, as a sort of novelty? Then each kill the alien makes would show us how futile it is to fight it and if the main character escapes it could feel earned. Yes, that would require a very talented righter perhaps, but that's what I'd like to see.   

[426Buddy]

I imagine that unless Scott passes away, he will get a chance to do another.

[Nukiemorph]

You know something that's been bugging me about Aliens, but I've never seen anyone complain about...

Why does absolutely no one remain on the Sulaco?  They have this massive military vessel hauling a handful of marines and a couple of drop ships and one of the drop ships takes every single marine down to the surface, just leaving this huge vessel floating in space unmanned.

Having every single member of the crew leave the ship seems like an invitation to get stranded... like they do.

[Darwinsgirl]

Good point. My guess is the squad of marines is not very big. So sending 2 transport vessels wouldn't be practical. Or if an attack was necessary having the small squad together would be a more effective attack than 2 small groups? The Colonial Marines may have thought this more of an exercise than an actual mission. A perfunctory response to a large corporation's request. Even having another A I on board would have made sense at the least. The computer on the Sulaco could have been monitoring the marines knowing deaths,injuries & loss of equipment. So it could report back?

[Local Trouble]

You know something that's been bugging me about Aliens, but I've never seen anyone complain about...

Why does absolutely no one remain on the Sulaco?

You've seriously never seen anyone complain about that? 

[OpenMaw]

Yeah, that's always been an issue for me. Just like the marines not having spare mags for their Pulse Rifles.

I chalk both of those up to the situation simply being not taken very seriously by the marines. The movie takes plenty of time to establish that these marines are really low on morale and discipline, and that they do not take Ripley even remotely seriously. Hell, even Gorman tries to leverage his spot with the group by going "Yeah. Okay. Right." To Ripley's remarks.

It's obvious, given the size of the Sulaco, that it's intended to carry far more personnel than it is on this particular mission. At least double.

[426Buddy]

Am I crazy or have we never seen a bathroom in the alien universe? Maybe the shower room in AC but no toilets if i remember right... is there even a bathroom shown on fan made blue prints for the Nostromo?

[SM]

So a military platoon is needed for looking into a downed transmitter? Not sure I understood your question correctly.

It's the job of marines to protect America interests in space - be they down transmitters of whether there's a 'Xenomorph' involved.

If you have someone who already has this job - why do you need a 'specialised investigation unit'?  What are they specialised in investigating?

You know something that's been bugging me about Aliens, but I've never seen anyone complain about...

Why does absolutely no one remain on the Sulaco?  They have this massive military vessel hauling a handful of marines and a couple of drop ships and one of the drop ships takes every single marine down to the surface, just leaving this huge vessel floating in space unmanned.

Having every single member of the crew leave the ship seems like an invitation to get stranded... like they do.

They have contingencies that can be used should they get stranded... which they do.

[Nostromo]

Mr H cracked the shits with Scified for some clickbait at the end of last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZPlrUxxOJo

Does anyone know who drew/created and who edited or accepted the image depicted for this video?

Also, who accepted as the main marketing image for the franchise? Just wondering lol.

[tleilaxu]

Am I crazy or have we never seen a bathroom in the alien universe? Maybe the shower room in AC but no toilets if i remember right... is there even a bathroom shown on fan made blue prints for the Nostromo?

Good point. All these f**king hack directors have no understanding of Giger's marvelous toilet art. Can we please erase ALL the f**king Alien movies and hand the reins over to a director who knows how to handle the franchise correctly?

[SM]

Am I crazy or have we never seen a bathroom in the alien universe? Maybe the shower room in AC but no toilets if i remember right... is there even a bathroom shown on fan made blue prints for the Nostromo?

Graham's blueprints are external.  Fen Giddel did some blueprints yonks ago that included bogs on A Deck.

[FenGiddel]

From deep within the Yonks, er, Nostromo Files...








And I pray to everlovin' Jaysus that Graham does a better job than this...