Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

[RakaiThwei]

You're welcome to that opinion - there have been several threads that reconciled the Weyland thing, so if you don't like the explanations posted, that's your opinion.

I am aware that there are several threads, and I have briefly looked into them but keep in mind that these are mostly fan theories. Or rather mere fanfiction to explain how to reconcile the Weyland Industries and Weyland Corp issue at hand. I think it's great that many fans out there are actually trying to reconcile the timelines, but until someone official actually manages to do it and do it nicely without any real issues without handwaving it and simply declaring it so, well then I'm not inclined to buy the fan theory reconciliations.

Also, just to be fair that I want you to know I am not being sarcastic. I try to treat others with respect, so I am not showing any maliciousness to you. I just wanted to get that out of the way.

The problem is the "word of god" idea has numerous "gods" stating their own opinions, and they don't exactly line up. You said it yourself - Antal considered 'Predator 2' to be a part of 'Predators', but Robert Rodriguez didn't.

If I'm going to defer to any "god" in this scenario, it'll be the ones who own the franchise, the ones who actually get to make the decisions regarding it, completely independent of what any other contributor has to say on the matter, and that's FOX. This is the same FOX who, after Robert Rodriguez said he was discarding the AvP films and everything AvP, specifically stepped in with the 'Predators' blu-ray and dropped in "Yautja" references, and designed the NECA toy packaging in-house complete with AvP and EU references.

You do have another point regarding the Word of God trope, but then again so do I. While the franchises do have multiple contributors and creators, there are infact multiple tropes adhering to this. Word of God, Word of Paul, and Word of Dante. In the case of Rodriguez and Antal, I consider Rodriguez to be the highest source in regards to PREDATORS. He wrote the 1994 script, he had worked with Alex Litvak with the revisions, he maintained creative control by being producer. He wrote, consulted and produced. He was practically helming the project. That's higher than Antal considering that PREDATORS, for all intents and purposes was his brain child since 1994. Therefore he is the creator.

When the word does not come from the creator himself but from someone involved in some ancillary role in production, that's Word of Saint Paul. Antal would be Word of Paul. He didn't write the film, he only directed it. He was being over-seered by Robert Rodriguez, who consulted on production while on-set. This is where a lot confusion comes from. Rodriguez's word vs Antal's word. Word of God vs Word of Paul. Given that Rodriguez is the creator, I would say that his word is higher than Antal's.

And while Twentieth Century Fox does own the rights to the franchises, well... that brings us back to square one. Everything is a mess. Nothing makes sense. Confusion is rampant. You have Yautja, Hish, Non-Humanoid Space Jockeys, Engineers, Black Mold, Black Slime, Royal Jelly, dead Shorty, living Shorty, etc, etc...

Also, as far as the PREDATORS Blu-ray Yautja Evolved segment is concerned... Aside from the title, they never really spoke that word. It served more as to a behind the scenes segment to how the BSPs were designed. The word Yautja was never uttered. However the Weyland-Yutani articles in the AvP-R Blu-Ray bonus well... they do use the word. PREDATORS doesn't. I've seen the segment on Youtube.

As for the NECA backstories, I suppose Big Red from Dead End would now be canon and the Kenner Predators too? I'm not buying it. And even if Fox did write the back story to NECA's toy packages well... that all goes back to square one, again.

Well except for the Alien Quadrilogy/Alien Anthology disc supplementals specifically saying that the EU and whatnot is "part of the universe" (I can get a specific quote, but you've already seen it before) and having EU-themed special features such as the "Weyland-Yutani Archive" or the pop-up trivia tracks that reference the EU liberally, that is.
FOX doesn't have to come down from on high and make a signed and notarized letter addressed directly to the fans - the fact that they're saying these things to their licensees doesn't change the fact that they said them at all.

That's all there in the Quadrilogy? I have the Alien Quadrilogy but I never have watched the supplemental discs much. If this is on the supplemental discs, then I would like to know which discs and what segment and time frame that they are on. This genuinely does have my interest now. 

However if it's on the Blu-ray Anthology series.. then I'm out of luck.

To be fair it's not a bad way to handle it - there's plenty of room in the galaxy for new and interesting stories, and like SM said it's pretty much par for the course. If we get lucky maybe some other writer will drop a reference to older comics and stuff just because the long-time fans will get a kick out of it, just like a couple of the DHPress books did.

Considering that Sebela has said that he is avoiding the AvP movies and the older publications, I doubt references will be made to the older comics. The only thing that I can see making it to the new comics is maybe the blooding ritual, that's it. Everything else may accidental or coincidental at this point from what Sebela has said. That aside, based on from how I'm seeing his words from the interview and his answer on Tumblr, it's a different mythos. A mythos which has Aliens, Engineers and Predators but a different mythos from what was established twenty five years ago.

On another note relating to the comics... Is this going to be on going or merely a collection of stories from the solo titles similar to what Predator 2009, Aliens 2009 and Three World War were? In other words.. a lengthy run which is one story line and then ends.

Also anyone notice how they announced this right when they about to potentially lose the license to two popular titles to a competitor right in the nick of time?

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

And while Twentieth Century Fox does own the rights to the franchises, well... that brings us back to square one. Everything is a mess. Nothing makes sense. Confusion is rampant. You have Yautja, Hish, Non-Humanoid Space Jockeys, Engineers, Black Mold, Black Slime, Royal Jelly, dead Shorty, living Shorty, etc, etc...

Word.  And be prepared for clashes between DH and Titan I reckon.

On another note relating to the comics... Is this going to be on going or merely a collection of stories from the solo titles similar to what Predator 2009, Aliens 2009 and Three World War were? In other words.. a lengthy run which is one story line and then ends.

Be interesting if it was, but I suspect there will be different stories running concurrently that reference each other from time to time.

Also anyone notice how they announced this right when they about to potentially lose the license to two popular titles to a competitor right in the nick of time?

It does come across as convenient, but that's just timing.  1) We don't actully know that they were going to lose the license and 2) they've obviously been working on this for some time.  The Prometheus thing was announced yonks ago.

[Xenomrph]

And while Twentieth Century Fox does own the rights to the franchises, well... that brings us back to square one. Everything is a mess. Nothing makes sense. Confusion is rampant.

I think this is a pretty drastic exaggeration, but that's just me. Are there continuity snags and contradictions? Sure, but it's not total chaos like you're seeming to imply.

Also, as far as the PREDATORS Blu-ray Yautja Evolved segment is concerned... Aside from the title, they never really spoke that word. It served more as to a behind the scenes segment to how the BSPs were designed. The word Yautja was never uttered. However the Weyland-Yutani articles in the AvP-R Blu-Ray bonus well... they do use the word. PREDATORS doesn't. I've seen the segment on Youtube.

But the thing is, it's right there on the disc, written out on the screen. It doesn't have to be spoken, we can read it on the screen. FOX made a conscious choice to use the word in the menus, just like they consciously chose to reference the EU in the AvP and AvPR blurays, and consciously chose to reference both the EU and AvP in the NECA packaging they designed.

As for the NECA backstories, I suppose Big Red from Dead End would now be canon and the Kenner Predators too? I'm not buying it. And even if Fox did write the back story to NECA's toy packages well... that all goes back to square one, again.

Sure, why not? It's not saying that the events of Dead End are canon, just that Big Red exists and is (now) a real licensed "canon" character, when he wasn't before.
Frankly I love that shit, the idea that NECA is contributing to the universe with all-new Predator designs and whatnot is awesome to me. I love the original Sideshow masks like the Stalker mask for the same reason. I wish all of the "Lost Predators" that NECA did figures of had ended up with their own brief 4-sentence backstories like Big Red/the 'Predators' Preds/the Kenner Preds have gotten, instead of giving them all the same blurb about 'Predator 2'.

That's all there in the Quadrilogy? I have the Alien Quadrilogy but I never have watched the supplemental discs much. If this is on the supplemental discs, then I would like to know which discs and what segment and time frame that they are on. This genuinely does have my interest now.

It's on the Quadrilogy's 9th disc, in the section where you can browse the comic book cover art, the text says:

"Dark Horse Comics started publishing Aliens comic books in 1988. All of the stories take place after the events of the second film [Xeno note - this isn't entirely accurate, but we all knew that already] and explore the rich universe visualized in the movies. The comics represent an amazing opportunity to go beyond the events in the Aliens movies and explore dozens of new stories featuring one of the most chilling species to grace the science fiction genre!

Following are cover images showcasing some of the amazing talents involved in the creation of this smash comic book series."

Additionally on the supplemental disc, it says:

"Dark Horse is going back through each of its past Aliens graphic novels and revising images and text to bring the entire story into a single line of continuity with the motion pictures and the wildly popular Bantam novels".

Those quotes were from 2003 when the Quadrilogy was first released, and as far as I'm aware they're still present verbatim in the supplementals on the Bluray set. I'll have to fire up my bluray and check tomorrow.

[Xenoscream]

Well I've read some of the novels (long time ago) and more recently I've read some of the comics.

To be honest apart from the Earth war series, most of them were stand alone, new characters etc.

Since they outright stated that they were creating a cast of new characters for these comics I expect the only "continuity" issues to be in regards to the behaviour of the creatures themselves, alien types etc.

At the end of the day, give me a decent story and art and I'll be happy.

[RakaiThwei]

I think this is a pretty drastic exaggeration, but that's just me. Are there continuity snags and contradictions? Sure, but it's not total chaos like you're seeming to imply.

I would say that most of the EU can be tied together with the films, save for of course PREDATORS and Prometheus. That said, a lot of the EU can also be tied together and explained as a series of isolated events which take place in the same universe. But some stories just do not go together and some of them don't even go with the films. The Hish mythos for example, and Destroying Angels.

The movies.. well, I've already explained the issue with the movies.

But the thing is, it's right there on the disc, written out on the screen. It doesn't have to be spoken, we can read it on the screen. FOX made a conscious choice to use the word in the menus, just like they consciously chose to reference the EU in the AvP and AvPR blurays, and consciously chose to reference both the EU and AvP in the NECA packaging they designed.

We know that Fox acknowledges the Yautja mythos, and that's great! I loved that mythos to begin with as it was something which I grew up on and created many fan characters as my base with! However, there is a difference between the bonus material in the AvP Blu-rays and PREDATORS Blu-ray. The Weyland-Yutani archive articles in the Blu-Ray for AvP-R were meant to be written in-universe as if actually by Weyland-Yutani staff, where as PREDATORS just used it for a title for a bonus segment and nothing more.

It's on the Quadrilogy's 9th disc, in the section where you can browse the comic book cover art, the text says:

"Dark Horse Comics started publishing Aliens comic books in 1988. All of the stories take place after the events of the second film [Xeno note - this isn't entirely accurate, but we all knew that already] and explore the rich universe visualized in the movies. The comics represent an amazing opportunity to go beyond the events in the Aliens movies and explore dozens of new stories featuring one of the most chilling species to grace the science fiction genre!

Following are cover images showcasing some of the amazing talents involved in the creation of this smash comic book series."

Additionally on the supplemental disc, it says:

"Dark Horse is going back through each of its past Aliens graphic novels and revising images and text to bring the entire story into a single line of continuity with the motion pictures and the wildly popular Bantam novels".

Those quotes were from 2003 when the Quadrilogy was first released, and as far as I'm aware they're still present verbatim in the supplementals on the Bluray set. I'll have to fire up my bluray and check tomorrow.

I can buy that! That much I can definitely believe!

Sure, why not? It's not saying that the events of Dead End are canon, just that Big Red exists and is (now) a real licensed "canon" character, when he wasn't before.

That's... What?

-Rakai'Thwei

[DaddyYautja]

The A/P/AvP universe needs a Star Wars treatment where the movies are the main story and the rest of the stuff starts counting less and less unless the big boss (Lucas) says it does.

The problem with all these movies, we all should know this, is that they are are different properties handled by different people with different ideas.  Like that dude that doesnt want the AvP movies to take place in the future for some reason.... what the hell is that all about?

[RakaiThwei]

The A/P/AvP universe needs a Star Wars treatment where the movies are the main story and the rest of the stuff starts counting less and less unless the big boss (Lucas) says it does.

The thing is with that, Star Wars has a canon tier which the folks over at the now Disney partnered LucasArts has maintained for years. They have a lexicon to what is primary canon, secondary canon, and what is non-canon. However that may end up changing now that Disney has the rights to Star Wars and the Timothy Zahn novels may no longer be canon with the new sequels being released.

That and George Lucas has been pretty consistent that the Star Wars expanded universe is an alternate universe, despite what Star Wars fans try to have you believe. There's a quote on that in a StarLog article somewhere.

In the case of Alien-Predator, well.. Xenomrph and I have talked about that.

Like that dude that doesnt want the AvP movies to take place in the future for some reason.... what the hell is that all about?

Ask John Davis.

-Rakai'Thwei

[predxeno]

Well, Dark Horse does keep an AVP canon bible to preserve continuity; apparently, it's been on the fritz occasionally but it DOES exist.

[RakaiThwei]

Well, Dark Horse does keep an AVP canon bible to preserve continuity; apparently, it's been on the fritz occasionally but it DOES exist.

That is something which I have heard a lot here from some members.

The thing is, with these new stories which are coming out that ignore two of the primary source materials and the rest what Dark Horse has established, to me it sounds like Dark Horse decided to not adhere to this bible to maintain continuity. And again, since they are not going out of their way to connect these new stories with the older publications, it doesn't impede on the old mythologies. And if they do touch up on some previously established things, it's likely going to be coincidental and accidental.

I mean from what I've read from the interview, and what was asked and answered on Sebela's Tumblr, this is a separate story. Now you could argue that it's otherwise but so far, from what we've been told it won't have anything to do with two of the primary sources and the rest of the expanded material. I've yet to be convinced otherwise.

As for this AvP Canon Bible which Dark Horse has... Is there an actual quote on that?

-Rakai'Thwei

[predxeno]

It might be in one of the interview threads done with the authors of the AVP EU over in the Archive section of this forum; I've done some sleuthing but there's just too many pages to go through to find it quickly.

[SM]

The canon bible provides guidelines for what licensees can and can't do.  It certainly does not preserve continuity, however.

[RakaiThwei]

The canon bible provides guidelines for what licensees can and can't do.  It certainly does not preserve continuity, however.

Does anyone know what these guidelines are by any chance?

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

Nup.

Though obviously in the past they've been extremely broad.  It's not like Star Wars where authors were restricted from certain periods, or characters.  Dark Horse were given free rein to write the future adventures of Hicks, Newt and Ripley while at the same time Brandywine were commissioning scripts that featured some/ all these characters and paid no attention to the comic books.  But even Dark Horse said way back then, that Fox had to approve what they were doing.

There's never been any attempt though to create one singular continuity.  Even though Hicks and Newt got replaced by their stunt doubles, Fox has let other licensees go off and do whatever they like independent of other licensees material.  Even most recently Gearbox's A:CM conflicted with the DS game they themselves co-produced with Wayfoward.  Which contradicted material in the CMTM, which clashed with video games like Alien3 - The Gun and Aliens: Extermination.  Chris Warner once told a letter writer that if your reading an Aliens comic then only take comic continuity into account.

[DaddyYautja]

The thing is with that, Star Wars has a canon tier which the folks over at the now Disney partnered LucasArts has maintained for years. They have a lexicon to what is primary canon, secondary canon, and what is non-canon. However that may end up changing now that Disney has the rights to Star Wars and the Timothy Zahn novels may no longer be canon with the new sequels being released.

That and George Lucas has been pretty consistent that the Star Wars expanded universe is an alternate universe, despite what Star Wars fans try to have you believe. There's a quote on that in a StarLog article somewhere.

In the case of Alien-Predator, well.. Xenomrph and I have talked about that.



Ask John Davis.

-Rakai'Thwei

The fact it might change now is not the point because this will likely happen now that Lucas is not in charge.
The point is that we need some one in charge to lay down the rules.
And while the EU of Star War was an alternate dimension and so on the EU actually tried to tie and not rewrite the movies which is why fans treat the EU on the same level as the movies. The EU is so perfectly fit around the movies that you can actually make it into a movie.

I think we need that.

[SM]

Star Wars EU wasn't 'an alternate dimension' it was just a level of canon below the movies and TV shows.