First Alien: Isolation Screenshots

[Engineer]

Maybe I got lost in reading the recent comments. What exactly is being debated here? I was pretty sure most Alien fans were on the same page regarding Ash, Wey-Yu and Special Order 937. It was all planned. What's the question? How did they know in the first place? Pretty sure that's partially what Prometheus was trying to do, in addition to universe expansion. There are some loose ends and unanswered questions, but that's what happens when you have 4 + 1 films, with 4 directors and 2 side titles with different directors trying to tie in to the original 4.

I guess this is bringing out the conspiracy dissenters. Some of us believe there is enough evidence to buck conventional theory that the company would have been aware of the direlect, xenomorph, ect, prior to Alien. The lack of communication in the first film suggests that the Nostromo wouldn't receive the special order if it was sent from somewhere outside the Nostromo (Such as earth). We believe the company would have contingencies for encountering an alien species, but because the Alien was hostile, by default the orders would have been to bring back a sample (We used to actively seek out Ebola, though it's rarely found, worrying that it could become a plague. My suggestion is that the company would have done the same thing, or that the government had laws forcing the corporation to bring back samples for study). Also the fact that they didn't immediately freeze Kane after the facehugger was attached to him and they realized it had a tube down his throat makes me think that the company wasn't as on top of the situation as we previously thought. There's also the argument that if the Company wanted to check out what could potentially be a extraterrestrial, granted the SoS from the Direlect wasn't human, they could have fielded a better team than space truckers, so it's reasonable to assume that the Nostromo had first contact with the SoS, and then diverted automatically. Also, in Aliens, it was Burk that send the colonists to check out Ripleys' story, not the company. And if the company knew of the Xenomorph, and wanted a specimen like everyone body thinks was the case in the first film, why would they send Marines, who would be more likely to destroy every specimen they could find, instead of sending a more appropriate biohazard team like we saw in Alien 3.

We have to keep in mind that at the time these films were made, Prometheus didn't exist, so there could be some slight retconning taking place, and even then, we still don't know the outcome of what happened during prometheus? Did they ever send a rescue team? That sort of thing.

Basically, this all started with us wondering if the company knew about the Xenomorph prior, and whether that will play into the Story of Alien Isolation.

It's a fun debate.

You seem to be my biggest supporter here... Lol, so don't take this the wrong way. But Burke was clearly working alone, at least initially, and he went to LV-426 with the marines because he's a coward! Lol. That's why the marines were there in the second film, well, part of the reason anyway.

[SM]

Didn't he say that?

Also, in Aliens, it was Burk that send the colonists to check out Ripleys' story, not the company.

Burke is employed by the Company, but wanted the fattest cheque for himself.  As the colony was co-financed by the ECA, they would also be in for a cut if he "made a major security situation out of it".  Make it look like they stumbled across it by accident - just like the first film - otherwise "there's no exclusive rights".

[Engineer]

Ash was following the same decision process as muther, but he was there coincidentally.

Engineer, by that logic, it's just as likely that 'Bob the Human' might have been the Science Officer on that flight... and what would he have thought of Special Order 937?

No doubt that a human science officer would have completely altered the outcome of the movie. I'd imagine a human science officer would have acted out of self preservation... The way ripley did when she refused to open the air lock for Dallas, Kane, and lambert. But again, this is speculation and ultimately irrelevant to the argument.

Nope, totally relevant. 

Relevant because it essentially refutes your hypothesis that Special Order 937 was really just 'Regular Order 937'. If the company was going to mandate such an important standard order (important enough to rate the "crew expendable" tag), why would they do so and just hope, if the scenario eventually arose, that coincidence would favour them with a company android who just coincidentally happened to be on board? Because if there wasn't an android aboard, it would play out much like this:

SCIENCE OFFICER:
Captain, I probably shouldn't be telling you this, but I've just been notified of something called 'Special Order 937' - my eyes only.

CAPTAIN:
What is it?

SCIENCE OFFICER:
Well it seems we've been rerouted ten months off course, and we're supposed to go down to that planet and retrieve an alien lifeform and bring it back to Earth. Also, it appears the entire crew is expendable.

CAPTAIN:
Including you?

SCIENCE OFFICER:
Looks that way.

CAPTAIN:
Right. Okay, everybody back in the freezers; we're going right back to Earth and straight to the press.

End of mission, and potentially end of Company. Ash was there specifically to see that the mission was carried out. Otherwise, it wouldn't be. And at the end of the day, there's also this:

RIPLEY:
What was your Special Order?

ASH:
You read it, I thought it was clear.

Not 'our' Special Order, not even 'the' Special Order... your Special Order. If Ripley had gotten that part wrong, I've no doubt Ash would have taken a perverse android pleasure in pointing out her error.

I prefer to think of it as...

Now this I can get behind. And with that, I leave you to your preferred thoughts. 

Hmm... I sense a little hostility here... Lol. What you outlined is a hypothetical scenario which did not take place. That's what you "think" would have happened which is something I suppose I could get behind as well. Lol. But honestly, who's to say how a human science officer would have reacted in this situation. It's back to speculation here. I already proposed that a human science officer would have probably reacted out of self preservation... But who knows, maybe he would acted more like Burke and sought a possible payday at the crew's expense...

And yea, you got me... Ripley did say "your" rather than "our" or "the" when talking to ash about the special order... Clearly she was not freaked out and in a panic, thus in control of her emotions and choice in words. Lol. Again, Dallas used the word choice "programmed," can you explain why he used the term "programmed" rather than saying "the company issued an order while we were all sleeping..." And as captain, he would have had the power to see any special orders being issued on his ship, so he would have known whether it was programmed or an order received directly. At the time, no one knew what to expect of the alien organism, so there was not yet a reason for Dallas to cut the mission loose and head home regardless of special orders, programmed or otherwise... And if the captain of a ship was unable to view this special order, wouldn't he have reacted suspiciously, and cut the mission loose anyway? Just saying.

But the Special order wouldn't have appeared until after the facehugger did, how else would the company know about the specimen?

The content of the transmission, which the Company received, translated and acted upon long before the Nostromo departed Thedus.  The transmission was a warning about a hostile organism, and even if they didn't know precisely what it was warning against, it was still warning against something.  And the Company wanted that something to the death of their crew if it came to that.

Kane would go into quarantine, they all would, but the specimen would still end up in company or government hands either way. Like I said, the 'Special Order' is probably a mandate given to all vessels. They would have to have contingencies for those circumstances.

Which again, stops it being a "special order".  They already have contigencies.  First is the clause in their contracts to investigate transmissions.  Second is quarantine protocols.  Putting that special order as a secret standing order on every ship is beyond stupid, as anyone who might think something was up can issue a command over-ride to find it.

But if the company was trying to cover up the events of alien to avoid bad press, then they would have known there was something to cover up.

What they had to cover up was them issuing orders that their flight crews are expendable.

Beyond that, everyone is just going round in circles over really petty points about who knew what when and no one is willing to give any ground.

Que sera sera. 

Ok, so there's too much going on here for me to reply to everyone individually, and my capabilities to respond are somewhat limited since I'm using an iPad. So, I'm going to try to cover all my thoughts here...

SM, I'm quoting you specifically, because of your last comment... I could not have said it better myself. This is a circular debate, analogous to political/religious debates... But I still think it's one worth having. :-)

Ok, now, there is another idea I have had that I have wanted to post and get some opinions from others about, but I have not posted it yet because I was waiting for the window to open for it. I'm about to open that window, but bare with me, this could be long winded...

I agree that ash being onboard the Nostromo by chance is a big coincidence, but if the conspiracy theory is true, there is a bigger coincidence that lingers... Let's say, that the company DID know all along and specifically placed ash onboard to collect a specimen. The Nostromo disappears and a cover up takes place. I've seen in other posts some speculations about why LV-426 was selected for colonization, and the rational I read was that the company wanted to covertly "keep an eye" on the derelict ship... But why wait 37 years after the Nostromo disappeared to establish a colony? Let's ignore that. The colony has been there for 20 years when ripley shows up, making this at least a 20 year investment to "watch" the derelict ship. Why wasn't there anyone in that board room who was part of this 20 year to 57 year long investment/conspiracy? With that much time invested, wouldn't they want to protect the conspiracy and hear what ripley had to say? Then Burke comes along, hears ripley's story and acts independently to see for himself, yet these long time conspirators, which Burke was clearly not in the know with, allow Burke to put into action a series of events that would directly undermine their long term investment. Hmmm... That all seems much more circumstantial and coincidental than "ash just happen to be there by chance." And it would be awfully coincidental that these long-term conspirators felt the time was right and allow all of this to take place precisely when ripley re-appeared 57 years later.

Now onto my other idea I would like to here some opinions on... To me, the Nostromo was a lot like the miners during the American gold rush... They traveled vast distances to mine for ore. During the gold rush, lots of settlements popped up which were mining-towns and re-supply stations for trains. So, Hadley's hope could be an establishment for a mining town or a deep space re-supply hub as human industrialization stretched further into deep space. But why lv426 of all places? Simple answer goes back to ash... Ash reported to Dallas that lv426 had an atmosphere composed of nitrogen and other gases, right? Well, earth's atmosphere is composed of about 70% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and a mixture of other green house gases and trace gases. So, selecting a rocky celestial body for terraforming and colonization which already had a nitrogen rich atmosphere just makes sense! It would take less effort and money to adjust the atmosphere to be more earth-like and breathable, whereas another nearby planet or moon could have had a much different atmosphere requiring more work to be put in to make the air breathable. That seems like a much more plausible explanation for "why  lv426" to me than the conspiracy theory...

Didn't he say that?

Also, in Aliens, it was Burk that send the colonists to check out Ripleys' story, not the company.

Burke is employed by the Company, but wanted the fattest cheque for himself.  As the colony was co-financed by the ECA, they would also be in for a cut if he "made a major security situation out of it".  Make it look like they stumbled across it by accident - just like the first film - otherwise "there's no exclusive rights".

Oops! Yea I misread that, and I stand corrected... My bad UDA!!

[SM]

Let's ignore that.

I don't think you can.

Once you do it's open slather for every half baked conspiracy theory, which all end up being blown out of the water when everything is taken into account and nothing ignored.

It makes no sense for the Company to sit on a discovery like the Alien AND involve the ECA for 57 years.  Especially as we see how fast they can move when they really do know about the Alien in Alien3.

Only possible answer is they didn't know about it for those 57 years.  SO 937 was written off as a bad call.

So, Hadley's hope could be an establishment for a mining town or a deep space re-supply hub as human industrialization stretched further into deep space. But why lv426 of all places?

The original idea was mining as per the script.  Hadley isn't fitted out as way station or dry dock with only a very small landing field.  Additionally the only place it's on the way to, is Kappa Reticuli which is another 31 ly past it.

[Engineer]

Let's ignore that.

I don't think you can.

Once you do it's open slather for every half baked conspiracy theory, which all end up being blown out of the water when everything is taken into account and nothing ignored.

It makes no sense for the Company to sit on a discovery like the Alien AND involve the ECA for 57 years.  Especially as we see how fast they can move when they really do know about the Alien in Alien3.

Only possible answer is they didn't know about it for those 57 years.  SO 937 was written off as a bad call.

So, Hadley's hope could be an establishment for a mining town or a deep space re-supply hub as human industrialization stretched further into deep space. But why lv426 of all places?

The original idea was mining as per the script.  Hadley isn't fitted out as way station or dry dock with only a very small landing field.  Additionally the only place it's on the way to, is Kappa Reticuli which is another 31 ly past it.

With regards to your comment about the company sitting on a discover for 57 years... That's what I was saying all along, only that they didn't need to write it off as a bad call because they didn't know about it yet. Different perspective is all. They obviously wanted the alien pretty bad so why write it off, put a colony on the same rock, then go after the alien again 57 years later? That just makes no sense to me, and seems very unlikely. If you want something, you want it. It makes more sense to me that the Nostromo was an isolated incident that the company did not know about until ripley returned.

Ok, so based on the script Hadley's hope was a mining settlement... What are your thoughts beyond just that? Why colonize lv426 and not some other nearby planet/planetoid/moon to mine ores from? Conspiracy to watch the derelict? Or more cost effective to terraform based on atmospheric composition?

[Jarac]

Oh hell no. Not falling for this again. Gonna wait 'till we see some reviews. I still don't like the inclusion of Ripley's daughter. Also, CA isn't immune to bullshitting: Rome II: Total War, anyone?

[SM]

ADF talks about LV-426 having a lot of methane in the novelisation and that makes it a prime candidate for terraforming.

That aside, it's a planet with a decent atmosphere.  Maybe they aren't very common.  Over 300 planets had been surveyed, but not all of them would've been terraformed or be candidates.  And the colony only has 157 people, and isn't a terribly big priority.  I imagine proper colonies have thousands if not tens of thousands of people.

[UDA]

Maybe I got lost in reading the recent comments. What exactly is being debated here? I was pretty sure most Alien fans were on the same page regarding Ash, Wey-Yu and Special Order 937. It was all planned. What's the question? How did they know in the first place? Pretty sure that's partially what Prometheus was trying to do, in addition to universe expansion. There are some loose ends and unanswered questions, but that's what happens when you have 4 + 1 films, with 4 directors and 2 side titles with different directors trying to tie in to the original 4.

I guess this is bringing out the conspiracy dissenters. Some of us believe there is enough evidence to buck conventional theory that the company would have been aware of the direlect, xenomorph, ect, prior to Alien. The lack of communication in the first film suggests that the Nostromo wouldn't receive the special order if it was sent from somewhere outside the Nostromo (Such as earth). We believe the company would have contingencies for encountering an alien species, but because the Alien was hostile, by default the orders would have been to bring back a sample (We used to actively seek out Ebola, though it's rarely found, worrying that it could become a plague. My suggestion is that the company would have done the same thing, or that the government had laws forcing the corporation to bring back samples for study). Also the fact that they didn't immediately freeze Kane after the facehugger was attached to him and they realized it had a tube down his throat makes me think that the company wasn't as on top of the situation as we previously thought. There's also the argument that if the Company wanted to check out what could potentially be a extraterrestrial, granted the SoS from the Direlect wasn't human, they could have fielded a better team than space truckers, so it's reasonable to assume that the Nostromo had first contact with the SoS, and then diverted automatically. Also, in Aliens, it was Burk that send the colonists to check out Ripleys' story, not the company. And if the company knew of the Xenomorph, and wanted a specimen like everyone body thinks was the case in the first film, why would they send Marines, who would be more likely to destroy every specimen they could find, instead of sending a more appropriate biohazard team like we saw in Alien 3.

We have to keep in mind that at the time these films were made, Prometheus didn't exist, so there could be some slight retconning taking place, and even then, we still don't know the outcome of what happened during prometheus? Did they ever send a rescue team? That sort of thing.

Basically, this all started with us wondering if the company knew about the Xenomorph prior, and whether that will play into the Story of Alien Isolation.

It's a fun debate.

You seem to be my biggest supporter here... Lol, so don't take this the wrong way. But Burke was clearly working alone, at least initially, and he went to LV-426 with the marines because he's a coward! Lol. That's why the marines were there in the second film, well, part of the reason anyway.

I was poking fun at both of us. As best as I can tell you and are the ones who don't buy the established argument.

[Engineer]

ADF talks about LV-426 having a lot of methane in the novelisation and that makes it a prime candidate for terraforming.

That aside, it's a planet with a decent atmosphere.  Maybe they aren't very common.  Over 300 planets had been surveyed, but not all of them would've been terraformed or be candidates.  And the colony only has 157 people, and isn't a terribly big priority.  I imagine proper colonies have thousands if not tens of thousands of people.

Admittedly, I haven't read the novelization, but I'll take your word for it. I think ADF made a couple of mistakes though. For starters, I'm pretty sure ash said the atmosphere was primarily nitrogen. Plus I found this secondary source:

"The planetoid's indigenous atmosphere was described as "primordial", consisting mainly of nitrogen, water vapor, carbon dioxide, trace particles of oxygen and small concentrations of methane and ammonia.[2] It is constantly racked by strong winds, although the moon is too small for potentially dangerous very large storms to form.[3] Needless to say, LV-426 under native conditions was inhospitable to human life."
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Acheron_(LV-426)

That's ADF's first mistake. The second relates to methane making lv426 a primary candidate for terraforming. If methane was the primary atmospheric constituent, I think the opposite would be true. Here on earth, methane is highly combustible, but we have an oxygen rich atmosphere. Combustion requires oxygen. However, if methane was more prevalent, then it would be relatively inert and oxygen (the limiting reactant) would become the highly combustible gas instead. I acquired this information a while back after watching a special on the science channel about triton (moon of Saturn) which has a methane rich atmosphere and lakes of methane, so I don't exactly have a source to cite here. So, going back to lv426, if the atmosphere was mostly methane, introducing high volumes of oxygen during terraforming would be highly dangerous.

On the other hand, methane is less dense than oxygen, so high winds would be possible with little force from planetary/moon rotation, which would support the high winds we all have seen in the movies. But then again, we don't know how fast lv426 rotates anyway...

Edit: after thinking about it a little more, I could understand the high presence of methane being ideal for terraforming if the rational was that it would provide plenty of natural fuel to run the atmospheric processors... But it still seems like a dangerous feat, nonetheless...

[SM]

That's ADF's first mistake.

More like the AvP wiki's mistake who've relied more on the Colonial Marines Tech Manual than the film.

"It's almost primordial.  There's inert nitrogen, high concentration of carbon dioxide crystals, methane.  Working on the trace elements."

The "almost primodial" sounds like it would make it favourable for terraforming - but I'm not especially cluey with chemistry.  Maybe the methane was somehow used to heat the "deep cold" planet up.

And Triton is one of Neptune's moons.  You're thinking of Titan.

[SpaceMarines]

Methane's also a very important reactant in lots of organic chemistry, something I'd think you'd wanna get going if terraforming.

[Engineer]

That's ADF's first mistake.

More like the AvP wiki's mistake who've relied more on the Colonial Marines Tech Manual than the film.

"It's almost primordial.  There's inert nitrogen, high concentration of carbon dioxide crystals, methane.  Working on the trace elements."

The "almost primodial" sounds like it would make it favourable for terraforming - but I'm not especially cluey with chemistry.  Maybe the methane was somehow used to heat the "deep cold" planet up.

And Triton is one of Neptune's moons.  You're thinking of Titan.

DAMN IT! I always get those two moons mixed up! Lol. Yes, Titan!

Yea, I know wiki sites are never the best sources, which is why I used it as a secondary source. I'm pretty sure my primary source, the movie, says nitrogen is predominant. I'd have to watch it and refresh my memory to be certain.

Chemistry is actually one of my strong points. Lol. And YES, methane would be important for organic chemistry, but in this case, I don't think that matters. They're only interested in getting the air breathable at this point. It would definitely be important as a green house gas to trap heat, and would be necessary in smaller quantities to maintain a stable environment later on...

[SM]

The quote from the movie doesn't say it's necessarily predominant - although Ash mentioning it first may suggest that.  However the "small concentrations of methane" mentioned in the CMTM don't seem to be supported.

[Engineer]

The quote from the movie doesn't say it's necessarily predominant - although Ash mentioning it first may suggest that.  However the "small concentrations of methane" mentioned in the CMTM don't seem to be supported.

DUDE!! See that's what happens when I read a message board reply and try to respond while on a coffee break.... I completely miss the blatant quote from the movie you included in your previous reply! Lol.

Ok, yes, in that case I'd agree with you. Ash's comment was purely qualitative not quantitative, so we can't assume which gas is most prevalent. I must have assumed nitrogen was most prevalent because he listed it first, but again, that isn't a good assumption to make.

However, I still think ADF made a mistake by saying methane being most prevalent makes lv426 ideal for terraforming. Methane cannot be converted to oxygen, or even burned as a fuel source without oxygen being supplied (using oxygen to make oxygen is counterproductive) unless the process required a much smaller quantity of oxygen in order to produce a larger quantity (highly efficient process, which I could believe for a futuristic tech), plus putting out high levels of oxygen in an already methane rich atmosphere would be highly dangerous.

Methane being used to heat up the "deep cold," maybe... Methane is about 10 times more effective as a green house gas than carbon dioxide, but considering ADF says the atmosphere was already predominately methane, that is obviously not helping to heat up lv426 to begin with. So, the heating up, I would have to assume you mean by combusting the methane to generate heat... Or in other words, used as a fuel source? Also going back to TITAN (not triton), the high quantities of methane didn't help to heat up that moon either, otherwise methane lakes wouldn't be able to exist (based on the properties of methane, it boils at  -161 °C or -257.8 °F, which is Extremely cold). IF, ADF's novelization description were accepted and methane is the most prevalent gas in lv426's atmosphere, we could by extension assume that lv426's surface temperature is somewhere higher than -161 degrees Celsius because we never see any lakes of methane or lakes of any kind for that matter. I'm not sure if the surface temperature is ever mentioned in any books or movies, but if not, that might be a good starting point I think. Although, in aliens, everyone seems to fare just fine outside without any gear to keep warm, so it must be at a temperature that humans can withstand... Or maybe the temperature has increased as part of (or as a byproduct of) the terraforming process over the course of 20 years.

I will admit, no technical information for HOW the atmosphere processors work, means there is potential that it's based on futuristic science concepts we currently don't have knowledge of... Which is pretty likely and very plausible. But I still stand by the danger aspect I mentioned before...

Also, when ash says "inert nitrogen" that sort of goes without saying... It's science jargon added in to sound more "sciencey." Lol. If oxygen is lacking, then nitrogen is pretty inert in most cases, and we already know there's not much, if any, oxygen present. I actually work in a lab, and whenever I need to conduct an experiment "under an inert atmosphere" I use nitrogen in a glove box (standard practice).  Just thought I'd mention that for ya since you said chem isn't your strongest suite.  :-)

[JokersWarPig]

A:CM had good screens too...
I'm sorry but I don't have much to be excited for after A:CM (even though I enjoyed it) and from what I've heard about the plot to Isolation. I'm hopeful, but not giving it any large amount of hope after ACM