Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4

[pred169]

I don't think he'd snap until after, when he'd had time to really mull over the situation.

As for timing - yeah, if it was a random encounter and he wasn't purposefully being hunted or if he wasn't trying to track them down, it'd be far too convenient.

I agree. Timing wise it would be convient at best. But i feel it just depends on if they play it in actual time. As in events happened in the 87 and he runs into one now. Almost 3 decades there's a little wiggle room there.

[Engineer]

I've always been interested in the idea of a poacher type predator. Something along the lines of: Arnold's or Danny glover's characters being considered off limits for besting the hunters in their respective encounters, but a lone predator breaks the rules and goes after one or both of them because it sees them as the ultimate prey; proven worthy adversaries who've spilled predator blood!

I think that would be an interesting story that could believably bring back multiple characters from the predator films... Although, they sort of did this with predators, and I highly doubt they'd ever be able to bring back both Arnold and/or Danny glover...

[pred169]

I've always been interested in the idea of a poacher type predator. Something along the lines of: Arnold's or Danny glover's characters being considered off limits for besting the hunters in their respective encounters, but a lone predator breaks the rules and goes after one or both of them because it sees them as the ultimate prey; proven worthy adversaries who've spilled predator blood!

I think that would be an interesting story that could believably bring back multiple characters from the predator films... Although, they sort of did this with predators, and I highly doubt they'd ever be able to bring back both Arnold and/or Danny glover...

I agree.... that would be an epic plot. I never considered the idea of a poacher style predator or (bad blood). Like a criminal based predator

[Engineer]

I think they've had a couple of comics sort of based on this... But I think having it specifically target a character luck Dutch adds some good depth to predator customs/laws...

[pred169]

I think they've had a couple of comics sort of based on this... But I think having it specifically target a character luck Dutch adds some good depth to predator customs/laws...

Yes. That is an interesting thought.

[blood.]

Meeting one by accident and knowing what he's up against? Sure. But having two encounters in his lifetime would strike me as a little too coincidental.

I've always been interested in the idea of a poacher type predator. Something along the lines of: Arnold's or Danny glover's characters being considered off limits for besting the hunters in their respective encounters, but a lone predator breaks the rules and goes after one or both of them because it sees them as the ultimate prey; proven worthy adversaries who've spilled predator blood!

^ Beat me to it. coming across a predator by chance is one thing, but it happening twice is a stretch... unless the predator actually seeks him out because of his history.

[Corporal Hicks]

^ Beat me to it. coming across a predator by chance is one thing, but it happening twice is a stretch... unless the predator actually seeks him out because of his history.

Or the other way around where Dutch is searching them out.

[Xenomorphine]

Even if we assume the creature's mask was recording everything, he took it off for the final portion of the combat - and it isn't likely to have survived intact, let alone have been recovered by others of the same species.

They also wouldn't have any way of locating Dutch. That was the biggest flaw with the premise of 'Predators' (and the implied premise of a sub-plot in 'Predator 2', but I try to overlook that as the characters making assumptions). Out in the jungle, his group were the only human-shaped heat blobs for miles around, making it easy to locate and keep tracking them. Look at the quality of the thermal vision... There really wasn't much in the way of fine detail for facial recognition.

They wouldn't have the slightest clue of where to even start looking for the guy.

That's my problem with all of this. I don't feel he'd 'go Ahab', it feels out of chararcter for him to become a Keyes-alike and if he coincidentally happens to run into them again, well... The last is possible, but it would feel forced.

If there isn't a compelling reason for him, specifically, to drive a story forward, then let him be and use a new character.

[HuDaFuK]

Even if we assume the creature's mask was recording everything, he took it off for the final portion of the combat - and it isn't likely to have survived intact, let alone have been recovered by others of the same species.

The novelisation of Predator 2 gets around that by explaining everything the mask records is automatically stored on the Predator's ship, and after he is killed it flew home on autopilot, with those recordings on board.

They also wouldn't have any way of locating Dutch. That was the biggest flaw with the premise of 'Predators' (and the implied premise of a sub-plot in 'Predator 2', but I try to overlook that as the characters making assumptions). Out in the jungle, his group were the only human-shaped heat blobs for miles around, making it easy to locate and keep tracking them. Look at the quality of the thermal vision... There really wasn't much in the way of fine detail for facial recognition.

Who ever said visual recognition is the only way they have to track and identify people? The simple fact the Predator in the second film is able to follow Harrigan all over the city and pick him out of a crowd proves they must have some more reliable way of identifying and following individuals.

[Xenomorphine]

The novelisation of Predator 2 gets around that by explaining everything the mask records is automatically stored on the Predator's ship, and after he is killed it flew home on autopilot, with those recordings on board.

Which still only goes up to the point of an unarmed humanoid heat blob clearly about to be beaten into a bloody pulp and gutted. Why would they assume Dutch was the one responsible?

Who ever said visual recognition is the only way they have to track and identify people? The simple fact the Predator in the second film is able to follow Harrigan all over the city and pick him out of a crowd proves they must have some more reliable way of identifying and following individuals.

That's why I mentioned I try to overlook that as the characters making assumptions. The Predators, themselves, don't have any way to do it. Even if one or more was constantly looking at him, the moment he entered a building (like the police station he's often going into, surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds of other personnel, including criminals they're hauling in for questioning), they'd lose him.

Look at those heat signatures. They're really vague. There's nothing about his outline which makes him more recognisable than anyone else - and there are a lot of people in Los Angeles.

And there's nothing else the Predators are shown to be doing to track him.

The writers intended for them to be doing so, but it's all hand-waved without any explanation, whatsoever. I don't buy it.

And that problem is overblown by several magnitude when we're talking about trying to track down Dutch several decades after he's had an encounter. Even a human group of specialists would be needing to employ the kind of detective skills Predators wouldn't! You won't exactly see them politely knocking on doors and telephoning/E-mailing past associates...

Predators are great for tracking down prey in their immediate vicinity or on an exotic safari. A bit rubbish for tracking down a single human in a massive city.

[HuDaFuK]

The Predators, themselves, don't have any way to do it.

They clearly do, because that's exactly what the Predator does in the second film. Unless you're suggesting it just casually happens upon Harrigan and/or his mates by chance whenever it catches up with them.

Even if one or more was constantly looking at him, the moment he entered a building (like the police station he's often going into, surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds of other personnel, including criminals they're hauling in for questioning), they'd lose him.

And yet the Predator finds Leona and Jerry on the subway no problem. Or are you suggesting that's another (practically impossible) coincidence?

Look at those heat signatures. They're really vague. There's nothing about his outline which makes him more recognisable than anyone else - and there are a lot of people in Los Angeles.

But who says their physical sight is the only factor at play? The Predators have all kinds of tech in their masks, who's to say there isn't something there that helps them identify individuals? Can you read Predator? We have no idea what the text that's constantly appearing on their HUD actually says. Maybe they can detect individuals by scent?

The fact is, we simply don't know enough to say they can't track people with accuracy over great distances, especially when at least one of the films shows that they certainly can, even in the midst of one of the biggest, busiest cities on Earth.

Even if it makes no sense in reality, in the world of the films, they have that ability.

[pred169]

The Predators, themselves, don't have any way to do it.

They clearly do, because that's exactly what the Predator does in the second film. Unless you're suggesting it just casually happens upon Harrigan and/or his mates by chance whenever it catches up with them.

Even if one or more was constantly looking at him, the moment he entered a building (like the police station he's often going into, surrounded by dozens, if not hundreds of other personnel, including criminals they're hauling in for questioning), they'd lose him.

And yet the Predator finds Leona and Jerry on the subway no problem. Or are you suggesting that's another (practically impossible) coincidence?

Look at those heat signatures. They're really vague. There's nothing about his outline which makes him more recognisable than anyone else - and there are a lot of people in Los Angeles.

But who says their physical sight is the only factor at play? The Predators have all kinds of tech in their masks, who's to say there isn't something there that helps them identify individuals? Can you read Predator? We have no idea what the text that's constantly appearing on their HUD actually says. Maybe they can detect individuals by scent?

The fact is, we simply don't know enough to say they can't track people with accuracy over great distances, especially when at least one of the films shows that they certainly can, even in the midst of one of the biggest, busiest cities on Earth.

Even if it makes no sense in reality, in the world of the films, they have that ability.

I agree. There are definitely more senses to be used. And the thought of him happening upon Leona and Jerry in THAT city is to far of a reach even for coincidence. I was think along the lines of scent myself. Most hunters use scent to track prey anyway... not vision.
And as far as tech I hate to reference such a bomb of a movie but we have seen this in AVPR. He stooped down used some tool to extract some of the liquid in the broken container, injected it into his cpu based gauntlet and it was able to determine what type of creature was in the container. Probably used scent molecules from the liquid. He was then able to track down where the facehuggers went and where the aliens started thier hive. That sounds like scent tracking to me. We use the same tactics for bloodhounds. They pick up scent molecules left behind. I don't see that as much of a reach myself.

[Engineer]

Xenomorphine - I strongly disagree with you on most of the things you've said.

To start with, body heat is as unique as a finger print, and can be used to see individuals very clearly. They use it as a form of biometrics even! We can't always tell individuals apart in the animal kingdom, like sharks and whales. We have to study their scars and dorsal fins to determine individuals, but if we could see body heat, it would be a lot easier to see individuals across multiple species. Can YOU or I see individuals using body heat? Probably not too easily, but that's how the predator has adapted, so it should be no problem for them. Also, in the first predator, the scene where Dutch and billy are standing next to each other talking while staring out across that clearing... Just before Anna tries to escape. We get a good look at Dutch and billy in thermal vision, and I don't know about you, but I could easily see a difference between the two, and I could clearly tell which one was Arnold.

The predator movies have all relied heavily on tension; tension caused by the characters figuring things out. That light-bulb moment when they realize it's a hunter and not a random psychotic serial killer; it has a purpose to its behavior. The big turning point in all three movies is when that revelation occurs:

"It's using the trees".... "Like a hunter"

"It's on safari..."

"This planet is a game preserve, and we're the game."

You lose that revelation if you re-use characters like Dutch, unless you change the rules. The character might expect the predator to behave like a hunter, but then it does the unexpected because it's an outlaw by its own kind and doesn't follow the rules. That's what I meant by they kind of did this with predators; it was a different species of predator with different tactics and rules. The formula for using all new characters has worked pretty well so far, but if they don't do something different I think the series will become too stagnant. That doesn't mean they have to bring Dutch or harrigan back, but just do something a little different. Predators had a lot of potential, but I don't think they managed to pull it off as well as they could have...

Speaking of predators though... In regards to your comment about the predators wouldn't have a good way to track one person in a whole city... They never provided an explanation, but they must have some way to do it. In predators, they must have been watching topher grace's character for a while to know he was a serial killer, right?

[pred169]

Xenomorphine - I strongly disagree with you on most of the things you've said.

To start with, body heat is as unique as a finger print, and can be used to see individuals very clearly. They use it as a form of biometrics even! We can't always tell individuals apart in the animal kingdom, like sharks and whales. We have to study their scars and dorsal fins to determine individuals, but if we could see body heat, it would be a lot easier to see individuals across multiple species. Can YOU or I see individuals using body heat? Probably not too easily, but that's how the predator has adapted, so it should be no problem for them. Also, in the first predator, the scene where Dutch and billy are standing next to each other talking while staring out across that clearing... Just before Anna tries to escape. We get a good look at Dutch and billy in thermal vision, and I don't know about you, but I could easily see a difference between the two, and I could clearly tell which one was Arnold.

The predator movies have all relied heavily on tension; tension caused by the characters figuring things out. That light-bulb moment when they realize it's a hunter and not a random psychotic serial killer; it has a purpose to its behavior. The big turning point in all three movies is when that revelation occurs:

"It's using the trees".... "Like a hunter"

"It's on safari..."

"This planet is a game preserve, and we're the game."

You lose that revelation if you re-use characters like Dutch, unless you change the rules. The character might expect the predator to behave like a hunter, but then it does the unexpected because it's an outlaw by its own kind and doesn't follow the rules. That's what I meant by they kind of did this with predators; it was a different species of predator with different tactics and rules. The formula for using all new characters has worked pretty well so far, but if they don't do something different I think the series will become too stagnant. That doesn't mean they have to bring Dutch or harrigan back, but just do something a little different. Predators had a lot of potential, but I don't think they managed to pull it off as well as they could have...

Speaking of predators though... In regards to your comment about the predators wouldn't have a good way to track one person in a whole city... They never provided an explanation, but they must have some way to do it. In predators, they must have been watching topher grace's character for a while to know he was a serial killer, right?

I somewhat agree with a person's body heat being uniquely identifiable...but you also have to consider that it cant be 100% accurately tracked. Simply because your body heat can be changed easily. Whether by a virus, cold, fever, something to that nature... Or affected by surrounding environment and temperature. If I run a fever and my core temp goes up by 1 degree then my external body temp can increase as much as 6 degrees. Same with hypothermia. If my core temp drops by 1 degree my external body temp will drop. It's this variance that is the main reason the military dropped thermal vision as a viable identification method. There's just to much that can cause a variance.

[Xenomorphine]

They clearly do, because that's exactly what the Predator does in the second film. Unless you're suggesting it just casually happens upon Harrigan and/or his mates by chance whenever it catches up with them.

That's unfortunately the only way to realistically explain it, given what we know of Predator abilities. There isn't some super-secret tracking device signal showing up on their HUDs or whatever (and if there was, it would have been very useful in that slaughterhouse scene).

It seems like the writing team were projecting human abilities onto these masked hunters, without factoring in their limitations.

And yet the Predator finds Leona and Jerry on the subway no problem. Or are you suggesting that's another (practically impossible) coincidence?

That's more plausible, given how they're actively seeking out a violent crime scene. The same logic for why the original Predator latches onto Dutch's team: Wasn't planning for them, but liked what it saw.

Again, look at those vague blobs of heat whenever it looks at Harrigan, Jerry and Leona at range. There is nothing there of any real use to keep track of them in a heavily urban environment.

But who says their physical sight is the only factor at play? The Predators have all kinds of tech in their masks, who's to say there isn't something there that helps them identify individuals? Can you read Predator? We have no idea what the text that's constantly appearing on their HUD actually says.

If you can find something in the film which suggests anything like that, be my guest. So far as I know, there simply isn't. We see them tracking by thermal and recording voices to lure, but nothing else. No detective work, at all. The only symbology which appears is the voice recorder, from what I recall.

Maybe they can detect individuals by scent?

That big solid mask is sort of in the way... Also not something they can really employ to find the guy in an entire city. Sure as hell isn't able to be used to find the individual carriage Jerry and his friend were on.

If they can smell a single human's precise location in an entire city (during a time of very hot weather, too), then why couldn't the one in the first film figure out where Dutch was, even when he was under its proverbial nose and heavily sweating? He fooled the thermal and the thing had no clue where he was. Any sense of smell would have registered him (and let's not forget those masks seem vacuum-sealed and require opening air-valves, to take off)

Again, I think the writers meant it to be interpreted in the way you say, but they didn't think the obstacles through well.

The fact is, we simply don't know enough to say they can't track people with accuracy over great distances, especially when at least one of the films shows that they certainly can, even in the midst of one of the biggest, busiest cities on Earth.

Even if it makes no sense in reality, in the world of the films, they have that ability.

Sure, we do. Thermal - and that's it.

Like I said, an exotic jungle with a small group of soldiers in it and nobody else for miles around? Totally conceivable. Beautifully done. Cities, not so much.

Predators aren't all-knowing godly things. They have very specific tools and none of them have yet demonstrated a way to have been tracking Harrigan, let alone all his friends. I'm honestly not even sure there was enough for the Predators to go on, to figure out he even was friends with them. He's sighted talking with them a few times, but he's seen talking with other people, too. Certainly, Danny went into the Predator's territory - it didn't seek him out.

Engineer: Go and take some screen caps of Harrigan from where the Predator first sees him. They're incredibly vague. It's a real mess. Use that same really vague blob of heat to pin-point his location over miles of city. You can't do it.

That's the problem they have. It isn't about whether they can potentially identify the same target if it's paraded before them at point-blank range. It's about how they'd find someone over miles and miles of terrain where millions of other humanoid-looking blobs of heat are. Not somewhere, like a jungle, where it's all open-air. It's somewhere with tons of individual buildings and stuff. The problem is even bigger if you're trying to say thermal was used to find Jerry/Leona. It had no way to know they were even using a train, let alone which carriage they were on.

It would, however, have had motivation to around searching for violent kicks, just like they were. Both parties were actively seeking the same situations.