Shane Black got hung out to dry??- This movie stinks of a FOX f-up

[Dusk]

If some nobodies like the Strauses were able to prevent that, why coudn't Shane do the same about the suit...

I always thought they got unfairly crapped on. To me the worst offense they did was to include some really tasteless scenes in the Movie. Otherwise they did the best they could, with the script and budget they had. And they managed to keep everything contained without screwing around with the lore of the creatures. At least not too much.

And Shane, as a more accomplished director, with more freedom and a bigger budget, decides to completely retcon the Predator lore and expand it with fan fiction levels of bad ideas.

[Original Predator]

Fox doesn't use editors for its films.

Well, then Shane looks worse than I'd like to give him credit for when I originally made this topic.

[Xan21]

The script is the first of many booboo's

[BigDaddyJohn]

If some nobodies like the Strauses were able to prevent that, why coudn't Shane do the same about the suit...

I always thought they got unfairly crapped on. To me the worst offense they did was to include some really tasteless scenes in the Movie. Otherwise they did the best they could, with the script and budget they had. And they managed to keep everything contained without screwing around with the lore of the creatures. At least not too much.

And Shane, as a more accomplished director, with more freedom and a bigger budget, decides to completely retcon the Predator lore and expand it with fan fiction levels of bad ideas.

Where did he completely retconned it ?

[Samhain13]

If some nobodies like the Strauses were able to prevent that, why coudn't Shane do the same about the suit...

I always thought they got unfairly crapped on. To me the worst offense they did was to include some really tasteless scenes in the Movie. Otherwise they did the best they could, with the script and budget they had. And they managed to keep everything contained without screwing around with the lore of the creatures. At least not too much.

And Shane, as a more accomplished director, with more freedom and a bigger budget, decides to completely retcon the Predator lore and expand it with fan fiction levels of bad ideas.

Where did he completely retconned it ?

Maybe not completely a retcon, it doesn't directly contradict stuff from Predator but it doesn't fit in very well with the creatures from the past movies. Predators wanting to invade Earth, changing their dna even adding human dna to themselves, considering human autism a desirable trait to go adquire, masks can now shoot plasma on their own, nano armor, the Fugitive wanting to give humanity a gift like that...

AVP stuff about predators teaching humans how to build pyramids wasn't  a retcon but still kind of out of place. Only predator like behavior that happened in the movie was the Upgrade giving the humans a head start so he could play a hunt game and pick them one by one, making it more challenging and fun.

[huntin8-t0n]

Blaming this movie only on the studio isn't right, I'd say, neither is doing so with the writers/director.
It's a conclusion of sloppy work and messed up/last minute ideas. The so many times mentioned editing problem...it feels like the work of a greenhorn in panic, trying to correct the mistakes he made.

It's just a general f*ck up. From nearly all sides.

Also, I just realized, that as unique as it is, maybe the main problem is that sequels just can't connect properly to the original, for the right tone/concepts cannot really be found. maybe a really good sequel will never be made.

Though a worse one? I can't really imagine.

[Immortan Jonesy]

Blaming this movie only on the studio isn't right, I'd say, neither is doing so with the writers/director.

Yeah, I think it's a mix of things. Also, I don't understand the bewilderment in regard to the nanosuit thing, as FOX is not the only suspect, just remember that a director of a super hero film is behind this as well.

[Original Predator]

Also, I just realized, that as unique as it is, maybe the main problem is that sequels just can't connect properly to the original, for the right tone/concepts cannot really be found. maybe a really good sequel will never be made.

Though a worse one? I can't really imagine.

A good sequel has been made.  And another one or two can be made.  If the fan base can get over the comic book ideas and stick to basics and develop a good story, it can be done. 

[huntin8-t0n]

Also, I just realized, that as unique as it is, maybe the main problem is that sequels just can't connect properly to the original, for the right tone/concepts cannot really be found. maybe a really good sequel will never be made.

Though a worse one? I can't really imagine.

A good sequel has been made.  And another one or two can be made.  If the fan base can get over the comic book ideas and stick to basics and develop a good story, it can be done.

Yea, it can be done, and I totally agree: without the basics (a good cast and script, story) a good movie in the future is not going to happen. And good is really subjective: I doubt in the original movie any of the actors were really good" actors, like in the way of describing over the average level of talent. But they did a hell of a good job acting their parts and that's what counts. Of course, if the story is not an over the top bs.

I see P2 a good predator movie, but not a particularly good movie in general. It has its acting/pacing problems and sometimes weird humour factor. But overall a pretty solid one, and a really good predator movie. Anyhow, I doubt we'll see a new movie like in another 10 years, so there's plenty of time to think

[BigDaddyJohn]

If some nobodies like the Strauses were able to prevent that, why coudn't Shane do the same about the suit...

I always thought they got unfairly crapped on. To me the worst offense they did was to include some really tasteless scenes in the Movie. Otherwise they did the best they could, with the script and budget they had. And they managed to keep everything contained without screwing around with the lore of the creatures. At least not too much.

And Shane, as a more accomplished director, with more freedom and a bigger budget, decides to completely retcon the Predator lore and expand it with fan fiction levels of bad ideas.

Where did he completely retconned it ?

Maybe not completely a retcon, it doesn't directly contradict stuff from Predator but it doesn't fit in very well with the creatures from the past movies. Predators wanting to invade Earth, changing their dna even adding human dna to themselves, considering human autism a desirable trait to go adquire, masks can now shoot plasma on their own, nano armor, the Fugitive wanting to give humanity a gift like that...

AVP stuff about predators teaching humans how to build pyramids wasn't  a retcon but still kind of out of place. Only predator like behavior that happened in the movie was the Upgrade giving the humans a head start so he could play a hunt game and pick them one by one, making it more challenging and fun.

That i can agree on more

[Nathsp]

Stop blaming fox,  the problem is shame black, the problem is that the scrip was so bad, the plot was so bad, that they ended with a shitty movie that no one liked in the testcreenings, and tryied to safe as much as they can from all the money they already lost with the shit black did.
They put predator spiders, and predators with pants, the cgi from the movie is bad as hell, and its better than the one before the reshoots, imagine how bad it was

[skull-splitter]

I blame the common factor being Jon Davis on all recent films to be fair, as he does not seem to care too much about keeping with the established stuff but just randomly putting out fresh ideas.

I blame Fred Dekker for trying to mix Monster Squad with Predator in a way that you can actually feel his handywork.

I blame Black for going for his standard schtick of quipy guys and unexpected twists for the sake of it.

I blame Fox for many of the reshoots and reworks this film has sufferend and I hope to see the original version one day.

So in the end I think it is safe to say that it was a combination of factors that resulted in a messier film than was expected that just didn't care much for keeping in line with the previous entries.

[Yautja_Warrior]

Black is partly to blame of course as the director but Fox definitely gets a good chunk of the blame for the movie being a mess, it's hardly the first time (Alien 3) and Blacks other movies aren't badly made, he's normally a sound director, so it certainly seems like it has studio interference written all over it.

Even if the original version turned out not to be to everyone's liking, I'm sure it would have still been a technically better made, better edited movie, without trying to stitch a ton of last minute reshoots together.

[Ingwar]

Let's face it. This movie is a nail in the coffin. Franchise is dead. Both AvP and now this. No more humiliation. Enough is enough. Studio and Shane, thank you very much. You achieved unattainable. I salute you

[newagescamartist]

Let's face it. This movie is a nail in the coffin. Franchise is dead. Both AvP and now this. No more humiliation. Enough is enough. Studio and Shane, thank you very much. You achieved unattainable. I salute you

Pretty much. Very sad considering it was a franchise that had a lot of potential. World building stopped being fun and meaningful after Predator 2. At least we got the first two movies.