Scott: the evolution of Alien is nearly over.

[Baron Von Marlon]

I now see that you did not read your own definition to sci fi. If you had, you'd have seen that none of the things you just mentioned are relevant to said definition.

You said my definition described Star Wars perfectly.
It doesn't, there's no mention of magic, meaning you're wrong.

[Corporal Hicks]

It's space opera. Fantasy hidden behind science fiction (more fiction than science) aesthetics.

Indeed. It may have fantasy elements but it's still science fiction. I'd find it odd that anyone would argue that it's not science-fiction. 

[Paranoid Android]

It's a sci fi fantasy film. Films can be more than one thing, much like how Alien is a sci fi horror film and how Blade Runner is a cyberpunk film noir. It just looks so weird when someone uses this definition:

Science-fiction:
fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances (beam based weaponry, faster than light travel, spaceships, star-sized space stations) and major social or environmental changes (interaction with alien species, a universe controlled by an inter-galactic tyrannical empire), frequently portraying space or time travel (faster than light travel, space ships, death star) and life on other planets (Tatooine, Hoth, Endor, Naboo, Coruscant, Mustafar, Jakku).

And then not see how his definition works against his own argument.

[Ingwar]

It's a sci fi fantasy film. Films can be more than one thing, much like how Alien is a sci fi horror film and how Blade Runner is a cyberpunk film noir.

Yeah, it's kinda both. Technically speaking it "is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, interplanetary battles, chivalric romance, and risk-taking. (...) Space opera is defined as an adventure science-fiction story."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera#cite_note-2

But whatever we call it I think the best way to describe Star Wars is by calling it ... Star Wars .

[atlantis]

The evolution of the Alien was already over in ALIENS..
And by making Prometheus and Covenant the whole mysterious feeling is gone...
its now just a simple sci fi movie with some man created beings going wild..lol

[Biomechanoid]

It's strange to see someone declare Star Wars does not reside within the SF genre, for me anyway. This happened a number of times in the old imdb forums, with members declaring it's strictly a fantasy film. When I suggested it is a space opera, a sub-genre of SF, that was like the old beating the beehive with a stick.

And like some here who already done, I scoured for various definitions of space opera. This actually turned into a site project I did awhile back - SF Subgenres A to Z, and I was quite surprised how deep that well ran.......http://www.scifimoviezone.com/scifisubgenres.shtml

[Scorpio]

The evolution of the Alien was already over in ALIENS..

The evolution was over by AVP you mean.

Unless you count the predalien but we already saw that in Alien 3.

[Biomechanoid]

The evolution was over by AVP you mean.

Unless you count the predalien but we already saw that in Alien 3.

I endorse this point. I don't think Alien 3 should be excluded when discussing the evolution of Alien. There was no human intervention in the appearance of the dog-alien or ox-alien. Its physical variant was strictly generated by the creature itself. The yellow hybrid alien in Resurrection, not so much.

[Scorpio]

A:R should not be excluded either.  Or the Newborn.

The only logical way to evolve the alien, without turning it into a kenner action figure, is having human intervention, creating a human/alien hybrid. 

[Corporal Hicks]

AR had plenty of potential - it seems to be the design they actually went with that people disagree with.

[Biomechanoid]

A:R should not be excluded either.  Or the Newborn.

The only logical way to evolve the alien, without turning it into a kenner action figure, is having human intervention, creating a human/alien hybrid.

I'm on the fence on Resurrection. That seemed more to me as cross breeding rather than the xeno's avenues of physical variants generated by the creature itself. Not unlike humans cross breeding the wolf until many generations later we have the domestic pets we know today, but the wolf itself has remain unchanged regarding any physical variants.

Now I realize that Scott is not using the term evolution in the scientific sense, I take it he's meaning the alien is over in the vein of cinematic/story telling evolution. That said, yea, I guess you do make a good point Resurrection should not be excluded.

[Highland]

You have to wonder how Rez would have been viewed by fans if the newborn was replaced with a kind of bad ass dome-less looking Alien. Something closer to the xeno, but different.

That and taking the weird tone out of the movie, it would have probably been quite good.

[Paranoid Android]

You have to wonder how Rez would have been viewed by fans if the newborn was replaced with a kind of bad ass dome-less looking Alien. Something closer to the xeno, but different.

That and taking the weird tone out of the movie, it would have probably been quite good.

If the Newborn was simply replaced by some other type of alien, I don't think it would've changed much. I'm not a fan of its design, to say the least, but the main issue I had with it was how the Newborn was used. That whole sequence derails the film for me because of how absurd it is. I don't need a Queen with a human reproductive system (undermines the whole alien lifecycle) and I don't need the silly mother/son moments the Newborn had with Ripley. You could put the alien from the original film in there and it would've still been terrible. That's one of the reasons why I find the Oram chestbursting scene in Covenant so hilariously bad.

That said, if that whole part would've been replaced with the crew simply trying to make it to the Betty while fighting off aliens, I think the movie could've been quite good. I have much less of an issue with the film as a whole than most people here. I am even fine with the weird tone. I still gladly watch it occasionally; I just turn it off once the Newborn shit starts.

[Biomechanoid]

That said, if that whole part would've been replaced with the crew simply trying to make it to the Betty while fighting off aliens, I think the movie could've been quite good.

Not being a gamer, I actually enjoy a replay of Resurrection from time to time where I experience playing a video game vicariously. The aspect you mention of trying to make it to the Betty while fighting off aliens reminds me a bit of the original Halo, which is the last video game I played through its entire adventure. Of course, I realize there are other movies you can apply the same logic, but Resurrection more often gets the nod from me.

[tleilaxu]

The scene with the failed clones is one of the best scenes in the franchise.