In The News

[[cancerblack]]

The media is being fairly reasonable about it here actually. I'm intentionally avoiding overseas coverage though.

[LastSonofKrypton]

The media is being fairly reasonable about it here actually. I'm intentionally avoiding overseas coverage though.

I generally avoid the news as a rule, here in the UK our news is getting worse, and American news has been a shit show for a long time

[AhabPredator]

We'll have to wait for more details to emerge, but hopefully more people don't become casualties. What a waste of life.

As I said with Smollet, even before it broke that it was a fake. Let's wait for details. We need to see where things flesh out and see where the pieces lie.

...what?

Certain people were quick to blame entire groups of people on a completely fake event. If anything, I think it shows how much influence the media has on people in the sense they expertly manipulate us. Please understand I don't think this shooting was a fake event. I'm just speaking about a specific pattern of behavior here and in the media.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/XRkBz9cboLo

[close]

Condemnation of people they don't like, based on their biases rather than the facts of the case. I was just stating we need all the facts of the tragedy to be fleshed out before the preliminary finger pointing begins.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/rpoTGUSRTwA

[close]

All that aside, the best case scenario is that the impacted communities will be able to grieve and heal over time and the man responsible pays. Not sure if NZ has the death penalty...but this man is deserving.

[The Kurgan]

We'll have to wait for more details to emerge, but hopefully more people don't become casualties. What a waste of life.

As I said with Smollet, even before it broke that it was a fake. Let's wait for details. We need to see where things flesh out and see where the pieces lie.

...what?

Certain people were quick to blame entire groups of people on a completely fake event. If anything, I think it shows how much influence the media has on people in the sense they expertly manipulate us. Please understand I don't think this shooting was a fake event. I'm just speaking about a specific pattern of behavior here and in the media.

Condemnation of people they don't like, based on their biases rather than the facts of the case. I was just stating we need all the facts of the tragedy to be fleshed out before the preliminary finger pointing begins.

The best case scenario, hopefully the communities will be able to grieve and heal over time and the man responsible pays. Not sure if NZ has the death penalty...but this man is deserving.

....what?

[Local Trouble]

[[cancerblack]]

Certain people were quick to blame entire groups of people on a completely fake event. If anything, I think it shows how much influence the media has on people in the sense they expertly manipulate us. Please understand I don't think this shooting was a fake event. I'm just speaking about a specific pattern of behavior here and in the media.

Certain people were very quick to (gleefully in most cases) run with the Smollet stuff being fake well before it was anything other than shady/confusing too. Swings both ways there. As I said, I've been avoiding foreign coverage, and the only thing they're attacking here are overt white supremacists and the loopholes in gun law.

Condemnation of people they don't like, based on their biases rather than the facts of the case. I was just stating we need all the facts of the tragedy to be fleshed out before the preliminary finger pointing begins.

Again, the facts of the case is that this guy was a white supremacist and used nazi-neonazi iconography, among other stuff. The only people being condemned are full-on skinhead types.

The best case scenario, hopefully the communities will be able to grieve and heal over time and the man responsible pays. Not sure if NZ has the death penalty...but this man is deserving.

We haven't had the death penalty for ages. Morally/emotively I support it but on technicality (ie; the condemned sit on death row making appeals and cost even more money in the process, and it's not actually a deterrent), it doesn't function the way it used to/should with the complexity of modern legal systems and society at large.

[AhabPredator]

Certain people were quick to blame entire groups of people on a completely fake event. If anything, I think it shows how much influence the media has on people in the sense they expertly manipulate us. Please understand I don't think this shooting was a fake event. I'm just speaking about a specific pattern of behavior here and in the media.

Certain people were very quick to (gleefully in most cases) run with the Smollet stuff being fake well before it was anything other than shady/confusing too. Swings both ways there. As I said, I've been avoiding foreign coverage, and the only thing they're attacking here are overt white supremacists and the loopholes in gun law.

Condemnation of people they don't like, based on their biases rather than the facts of the case. I was just stating we need all the facts of the tragedy to be fleshed out before the preliminary finger pointing begins.

Again, the facts of the case is that this guy was a white supremacist and used nazi-neonazi iconography, among other stuff. The only people being condemned are full-on skinhead types.

The best case scenario, hopefully the communities will be able to grieve and heal over time and the man responsible pays. Not sure if NZ has the death penalty...but this man is deserving.

We haven't had the death penalty for ages. Morally/emotively I support it but on technicality (ie; the condemned sit on death row making appeals and cost even more money in the process, and it's not actually a deterrent), it doesn't function the way it used to/should with the complexity of modern legal systems and society at large.

Agreed on the case of Smollet. That's why I said I sincerely supported waiting for the facts even before the hoax came out. I mean it did seem outlandish, but every case like that must be investigated.

As for the rise of white nationalism, how is that in Australia and New Zealand compared to the U.S.? Overt white racism is rare in the United States ( I didn't say non existent, because I know someone will twist that). I've honestly never been down to that part of the world, so I have no context. My only point of reference for this is Australia (2008) and The Rabbit Proof Fence. Both of which are movies, so...

I am pro death sentence if proof beyond a reasonable doubt exists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt

[[cancerblack]]

Australia has a reputation (at least here) for being pretty freakin' racist, but more on a cultural/institutional level than thug violence (which does happen but as an outsider feels like it pales in comparison to the states' behaviour) or the sheer volume of casual but non physical racism.
It'd be hard for me to unpick how much of it's just aussie c**ts being aussie c**ts and how much could be codified as a "rise" of modern day white supremacy.
I'm sure our local ockers can comment.


In NZ, there's been a small but obnoxious community of skinheads, neo-nazis and white supremacists for decades, who commit low level offenses ("minor" hatecrimes and gang shit) and of late, post nasty things on comments sections online.
I actually know a number of said people (some current, some former) from playing at/attending metal gigs, but their numbers don't seem to be increasing. There's no way to count people who act and dress normal but are radicalised online.
Other than that, NZ is generally seen as left leaning and hyper-tolerant and while there's always exceptions, that stereotype is definitely based in reality.

[SM]

"Pretty freaking racist" is inaccurate, but it's easy to see why we have that reputation because the right have been systematically demonising immigrants - particularly brown Muslim ones - for political benefit for the better part of 20 years.

[[cancerblack]]

I dunno, I've heard tell of some really shocking stuff from the NT but it's likely unfair to categorise the whole country the same way.

[AhabPredator]

Australia has a reputation (at least here) for being pretty freakin' racist, but more on a cultural/institutional level than thug violence (which does happen but as an outsider feels like it pales in comparison to the states' behaviour) or the sheer volume of casual but non physical racism.
It'd be hard for me to unpick how much of it's just aussie c**ts being aussie c**ts and how much could be codified as a "rise" of modern day white supremacy.
I'm sure our local ockers can comment.


In NZ, there's been a small but obnoxious community of skinheads, neo-nazis and white supremacists for decades, who commit low level offenses ("minor" hatecrimes and gang shit) and of late, post nasty things on comments sections online.
I actually know a number of said people (some current, some former) from playing at/attending metal gigs, but their numbers don't seem to be increasing. There's no way to count people who act and dress normal but are radicalised online.
Other than that, NZ is generally seen as left leaning and hyper-tolerant and while there's always exceptions, that stereotype is definitely based in reality.

We have skinheads here too. They are a very small minority. I've dealt with them on several occasions. They aren't pleasant, as you may imagine. You also have a lot of Southern people who fly the Confederate flag and while (some) of them might be racist within that subset, not all of them are.

I have also heard similar stereotypes concerning Aussies, but I'm not sure most of it is legitimate. Because the interpretation that many people have about Americans are often incorrect. I would sad most people are similar in a lot of ways and different than others. I think that's where world travel and education help with breaking down those barriers.

On that note, the movie American History X does good work showing how basic communication and mutual understanding can destroy racist tropes.

[SM]

I dunno, I've heard tell of some really shocking stuff from the NT but it's likely unfair to categorise the whole country the same way.

Indeed. On both points.

[[cancerblack]]

@Ahab a lot of the impressions people have about straya are fairly outdated, myself included. It certainly has a history of some vile shit (where doesn't though), and certain regions still see awful attitudes and actions, but for the most part it's just the same as any other english speaking country ie; you'll mostly find center-left views in the city and center-right views small towns without anyone being especially nasty. I possibly should have thought about my answer a bit harder there because i'm used to giving australia shit on principle (in a friendly way) and calling them a nation of racists is the default low hanging fruit, because it's such a widespread cultural meme to think of the place as such.

[SiL]

"Pretty freaking racist" is inaccurate,

Regrettably not my experience, but I am from Queensland.

[SM]

Could be worse.

Could be Sydney.