Let's be honest. Retcon, Reboot or Not. Should they let Ripley, Hicks & Co. RIP?

[windebieste]

Ripley and Hicks returning would have been a great idea in 1988...

...but this aint 1988, huh.

Why should this movie be so dependent on these 2 characters?  This is a big Universe.  Aren't there other USCM stories that an 'ALIENS 2' movie could easily accommodate without the need to break canon???

Apparently not. 

At this stage, I am so looking forward to 'ALIENS: Colonial Marines - The Movie' in which we get both Hicks and Ripley returning.  This is going to be absolutely brilliant!*

-Windebieste.

*Those last 2 lines are sarcasm, for those incapable of detecting such.

[Vermillion]

I think you all need to understand the power of money. 

Alien 3 and A:R are gone

Slow leak in cryotubes...gives us older Ripley and Hicks and Newt.

You'll pay to see it.
You'll go nuts for the pulse rifles
You'll buy the Blurays
You'll buy the Toys

Relax.

[CainsSon]

The poll portion of this doesn't work for me because only half of this applies. Frankly, I am glad they want to finish Ripley's story because it was a horrible way to leave the franchise off, and hope that I am satisfied with the decisions in the end,... But to me, I haven't an ounce of understanding why Hicks needs to be alive. To me, the real tragedy in there was Newt's death (and that's fine too). Hicks was a side character and I never became too attached to him, in any way during Aliens. He was a quasi-love interest. A bad-ass one, sure, but bad-asses die too. Even Bishop was a more interesting fleshed out character. You can say maybe two sentences about his character after watching Aliens. There is next to no character development for Hicks. He is a marine. He is courageous. He is into Ripley... That's it!!! So, I have no idea why this character's survival mattered to anyone. Dallas dies, Hicks dies, Clemens dies... and Clemens has 30x the character development that Hicks doesn't. You know what? He's dead! The Alien killed him. And etc. That's the extent of the space Hicks occupied for me. So I've just always been like "He's dead! What's the big f**kin' deal b*tch?"

I suspect that 12 year olds really wanted to be a cheesy Space Marine when they saw Aliens and whichever cheesy-ass Space Marine ended up living after killing a few Aliens, be it Hudson, Apone, or Weirzbowski, would now have the same overpraised status in this fan community as Hicks does.

Sorry. Space Marines are cheesy. They'd also be a lot less cheesy if fan-BOIS would stop sweating them so much. Do you remember how corny Space Pirates seemed in A:R? Its almost just as bad.

[whiterabbit]

The global population is getting older... target audiences. Geriatric xenomorphs.

[CainsSon]

[Sighs] ....What do you people want?

Seriously, I'm hearing don't retcon Alien 3 and Resurrection, don't render them dreams, amnesia, false memories. Then I'm hearing retcon Alien 3 and Resurrection, go the route of dreams, amnesia, false memories..

You can't reconcile one and the other without further muddling things.. What is it you want?

I cant speak for others but all I want is Alien 5 to take place after Alien 4.  No alternate timelines, no multiple dimensions, no retcon.

I also liked Aliens but I'm not in favor of butchering continuity so that I can have Aliens 2

In case you didn't know it yet, I'm with this chap^^^.

I cant speak for others but all I want is Alien 5 to take place after Alien 4.  No alternate timelines, no multiple dimensions, no retcon.

And that is fine to want that, I wanted that too at some point but it doesn't look like we're going to get that based on Blomkamp's words. You could argue conjecture and all of that, which is fine and dandy but all signs point to the possibility that it's not going that particular route. Now, I'm willing to be proven wrong but something tells me we're not gonna get that.

Im holding out some hope that by "filling in the gap" Blomkmp actually means to make a sequel that depicts events leading up to Alien 3, with her replacing Hicks and Newt in Cryo and etc, etc... The problem with this however, is why would a movie bein as a mystery if the answer to it is then made into a movie. This is the one decision A:CM made that I actually agreed with. The "That's a longer story/another story" bit regarding how someone else ended up in that cryotube.

[Jigsaw85]

Let them stay dead! I have never understood this need to bring back Hicks and Newt. Can anyone tell me what's so goddamn great about their characters? Hicks was just a stoic grunt and Newt was just the token little girl in a horror movie: screaming, crying and barely saying anything. Clemens from Alien 3 was a far more interesting and sympathetic character than these two walking cliches. When I first saw them die I was torn up just like everyone else but as I got older I realized this was the right thing to do. Cameron's vision was to have Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop, travel the galaxy as a family unit and fight aliens. Now does that sound like the plot of a Saturday morning cartoon or what? The reason I love Alien 3 so much is because it had balls, It didn't play it safe, you should never feel safe with an alien film. Alien 3 challenged it's audience, it didn't hold your hand and make you feel like everything was going to be OK in the end, like Aliens did. I mean, honestly, did anyone actually believe that Newt was going to die in Aliens? Hell no, the moment you heard Ripley scream "she's alive!" all tension gets destroyed because you know Ripley is just going to save her. In contrast, look at Clemens in Alien 3, he's built up as Ripley's love interest, we get to know his back story, we get to like him and you'd think he would live till the end but no, he gets killed half way through the film. Alien 3 may have it's flaws, but it's the bravest entry in the series and everyone should at least acknowledge that.


Now Blomkamp wants to retcon Alien 3 just so he can have that Aliens 2 wet dream that fans have wanted for over 20 years. Erasing Alien 3 will be the biggest puss-out move in cinematic history. "Oh I don't like that Alien 3 made me feel bad, I wanted the happy go lucky ending for these characters, Ripley and co. should LIVE and be happy forever!" I know it's wrong to assume Blomkamp's reasons for retconning Alien 3 but when you break down what he says and what's in his concept art and the fact that he's talking to  Michael Bein supposedly coming back, it all points to one conclusion: He's retconning Alien 3 for the same reasons we've heard fanboys bitch about for the past 20 years. "They killed Ripley, Hicks and Newt!" Bringing them all back guarantees one thing and one thing only: THEY WILL NEVER DIE! the threat of the aliens will not be felt and the suspense will be none-existent because you know damn well that Blomkamp isn't going to kill any of them after retconing a whole film just so he can have them back. He's going to create a safe film, a film that will please the fanboys and take no chances at all.

Alien 3 deserves it's place in the series and while Blomkamp says he doesn't want to erase it, it's pretty obvious that he does. There's a 57 year gap between Alien and Aliens, there's a 200 year gap between Alien 3 and Resurrection. He can have his film take place ANYWHERE and ANYTIME, so why is he so dead set on sticking his new film right after Aliens? Because "they killed HIcks and Newt Deerrrrr." f**k hicks and newt, give me new characters I can root for.

[PsyKore]

They should let them RIP. I think returning Ripley and Hicks is sort of misguided. They keep wanting to bring those characters back because of the fondness people have for Aliens and the great movie it was; people want to relive that. They should be instead trying to move on and make a good movie on its own merits. I believe a new movie with new characters can be done provided it has attention to detail and passion put into it.

I just always get this sense that movie makers are afraid to try something new or just don't have the interest in working hard to make something different nowadays. It's all spectacle and gimmicks. I'm not naive to the fact that it's a very money-focused industry, but it's now to the point where things are stagnated. We need to move on.

[HuDaFuK]

I cant speak for others but all I want is Alien 5 to take place after Alien 4.  No alternate timelines, no multiple dimensions, no retcon.

I also liked Aliens but I'm not in favor of butchering continuity so that I can have Aliens 2

You can speak for me.

[whiterabbit]

It isn't a retcon though, it's more so a parallel universe. In all honestly we could still get A|R 2 being how both timelines will be in place. That's not what I wanted, I don't like the competing camps timeline but it is what it is.

[HuDaFuK]

It isn't a retcon though, it's more so a parallel universe.

According to whom?

We still don't really know what the new film is going to be.

[whiterabbit]

It isn't a retcon though, it's more so a parallel universe.

According to whom?

We still don't really know what the new film is going to be.

Oh, thought it was reported that the movie was going to be a Y in the road after aliens, so to speak. In one branch we have Alien3 and A|R and in the other NB aliens sequel.

[HuDaFuK]

Everything seems to be very confused at the moment. One minute the new movie is writing off the later films, the next Blomkamp says that's what he doesn't want to do.

I'm still waiting on a concrete announcement before I put all my faith in any one suggestion.

[whiterabbit]

Good advice but hey I haven't slept in 2 days now.

[shakermakerman]

Seeing I was 16 when Alien3 came out and wasn't happy at the time I'm all for a different direction with Ripley and Hicks. As for their agevthey both look fine to me and will pull it off.

[Russ]

Let them stay dead! I have never understood this need to bring back Hicks and Newt. Can anyone tell me what's so goddamn great about their characters? Hicks was just a stoic grunt and Newt was just the token little girl in a horror movie: screaming, crying and barely saying anything. Clemens from Alien 3 was a far more interesting and sympathetic character than these two walking cliches. When I first saw them die I was torn up just like everyone else but as I got older I realized this was the right thing to do. Cameron's vision was to have Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop, travel the galaxy as a family unit and fight aliens. Now does that sound like the plot of a Saturday morning cartoon or what? The reason I love Alien 3 so much is because it had balls, It didn't play it safe, you should never feel safe with an alien film. Alien 3 challenged it's audience, it didn't hold your hand and make you feel like everything was going to be OK in the end, like Aliens did. I mean, honestly, did anyone actually believe that Newt was going to die in Aliens? Hell no, the moment you heard Ripley scream "she's alive!" all tension gets destroyed because you know Ripley is just going to save her. In contrast, look at Clemens in Alien 3, he's built up as Ripley's love interest, we get to know his back story, we get to like him and you'd think he would live till the end but no, he gets killed half way through the film. Alien 3 may have it's flaws, but it's the bravest entry in the series and everyone should at least acknowledge that.


Now Blomkamp wants to retcon Alien 3 just so he can have that Aliens 2 wet dream that fans have wanted for over 20 years. Erasing Alien 3 will be the biggest puss-out move in cinematic history. "Oh I don't like that Alien 3 made me feel bad, I wanted the happy go lucky ending for these characters, Ripley and co. should LIVE and be happy forever!" I know it's wrong to assume Blomkamp's reasons for retconning Alien 3 but when you break down what he says and what's in his concept art and the fact that he's talking to  Michael Bein supposedly coming back, it all points to one conclusion: He's retconning Alien 3 for the same reasons we've heard fanboys bitch about for the past 20 years. "They killed Ripley, Hicks and Newt!" Bringing them all back guarantees one thing and one thing only: THEY WILL NEVER DIE! the threat of the aliens will not be felt and the suspense will be none-existent because you know damn well that Blomkamp isn't going to kill any of them after retconing a whole film just so he can have them back. He's going create a safe film, a film that will please the fanboys and take no chances at all.

Alien 3 deserves it's place in the series and while Blomkamp says he doesn't want to erase it, it's pretty obvious that he does. There's a 57 year gap between Alien and Aliens, there's a 200 year gap between Alien 3 and Resurrection. He can have his film take place ANYWHERE and ANYTIME, so why is he so dead set on sticking his new film right after Aliens? Because "they killed HIcks and Newt Deerrrrr." f**k hicks and newt, give me new characters I can root for.

I disagree with this on just about every point. It seems just about canon to say "despite its flaws" when talking about Alien3 - it's flawed from the get-go as it opens with a deus ex. Rant away, but actually the entire film makes no sense if you go on the evidence of what you are presented with. Taken on its own (out of the context of the previous two films), it makes no sense (because we have no sense of what happens and what this woman's motivations are ("You've been in my life so long..."). Taken as part of the saga - it still makes no sense (no egg, no facehugger. We can postulate, we can assume, we can do what we like. But there was no egg on the Sulaco - we didn't see it happen, therefore it didn't happen)). That's just how it is.

As for Clemens - he, like most of the male leading figures in the saga are either killed off (Clemens, Dallas, Wicncott's character in A:R) or sidelines (Gorman) so Ripley can take control of the situation

Also, saying that Newt is the "token little girl" I think is misunderstanding the entire subtext of Aliens. And Hicks's entire arc is evolution from "just a grunt" to a leader of his team (in doing so supporting the protagonist's agenda). Even the nominal leader Gorman realises that he always was an asshole and ends up deferring to Hicks (and, thus by proxy, Ripley).

Also - I don't think Rippers and Hicks will survive NB's Alien - but I think they will be offed in a satisfying way that addresses the emotional needs of an audience (script writing 101 - which is another of Alien3's epic fails. I've said all over this forum - no one minds that Hix'n'Noot died. It's how they chose to represent which was wrong).

That said, Ripley's final act in Alien3 was epic - at the end of a better movie, it would have been perfect and I don't think we'd have ever seen Resurrection.