"Where are the others? They didn't make it. What? They didn't survive."

[LastSurvivor92]

So what was your reaction the first time you heard that Newt, Hicks & Bishop were all dead in Alien 3? This tends to be the biggest complaint in the film. When I first watched the film when I was 12 and heard Clemens say, "The didn't survive" I didn't really believe him until I saw Newt's body on a metal slab, Hicks impaled by the safety support and Bishop barely functioning. It really did weigh heavy on me all throughout the film the first time I saw it. I just remember how emotional everything was in the film. The way the film was shot, edited and made, you could just feel the anguish on film and all the hell David went through. In a way I view the deaths of Newt, Hicks & Bishop as a realistic aspect of the story. Honestly I would rather have them killed off than have it turn into some family funfest. I think they made the right decision with the characters but it sure as hell left a sour taste in everyone's mouth the first time they saw that in the film.

So what was your reaction the first time?

[HuDaFuK]

I was so young I can't even remember. Also it was the first Alien film I ever saw, so it's not like I would've had much reason to care about them anyway

I do think the furore over their deaths is a bit extreme at times. Is it a slap in the face? Yeah. But that's the whole point, and it completely sets up the rest of the film.

[judge death]

Never bothered with that, to me the alien movies are horror and no one is safe from them so having Hicks and Newt die were pretty meh, show me the alien! It was always the xenos which made me watch the movies not the other characters besides the main role but then again I didnt bother her dying either.

[LastSurvivor92]

Never bothered with that, to me the alien movies are horror and no one is safe from them so having Hicks and Newt die were pretty meh, show me the alien! It was always the xenos which made me watch the movies not the other characters besides the main role but then again I didnt bother her dying either.

It was the fact that it was just so unexpected. Believe me I didn't really care either even at 12 years old, You just didn't see it coming AT ALL. Cause I rented each film individually and took each film as it is so once I reached Alien 3 and saw what happend I was like "f**k, they all really died?!" James Cameron can go shove it. Like you said judge death, it helps 'set up' the film itself. He constantly makes remarks about how Alien 3 was a slap in the face to him. He never mentions the good merits of the sequels. In the commentary he mentions how Sigourney Weaver always expressed that she wanted to die and make love to an Alien and he said she got to do both of those but he's always so sarcastic about them. I understand why he and Ridley Scott hate the AVP movies but you never really hear them mention almost ANYTHING about Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection. I think there both solid films and they at least deserve some recognition from Scott and Cameron.

[HuDaFuK]

Cameron isn't being malicious towards the third film at all. He's just upset because two characters he invested a huge amount of time and effort into - not to mention created - got wasted without so much as a goodbye. Frankly I can understand a degree of resentment there.

He never mentions the good merits of the sequels.

Actually that's incorrect, he's gone on record praising certain aspects of Alien 3, most notably the visuals.

[LastSurvivor92]

Cameron isn't being malicious towards the third film at all. He's just upset because two characters he invested a huge amount of time and effort into - not to mention created - got wasted without so much as a goodbye. Frankly I can understand a degree of resentment there.

He never mentions the good merits of the sequels.

Actually that's incorrect, he's gone on record praising certain aspects of Alien 3, most notably the visuals.

Really? Thats cool man. What else did he say about Alien 3 and has even mentioned anything on Resurrection? Because I know him and Scott were gonna collaborate to make Alien 5 so I'm sure Resurrection was brought up.

[𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯]

Transcribed from the directors commentary:

"David Fincher did a really good job photographically and so on. I think it's really a well-made film, visually. It's just kind of a slap in the face of the fans who invested in Newt and Hicks and all of those character relationships. I understand the instinct, of course, which is you have to make it your own. I just don't think you should make it your own at the expense of what people like, personally."
"But everybody's gonna make their own decisions. I had to change some things and make it my own on my film. And I know that Ridley probably watched it and wasn't pleased with a lot of things. He probably wasn't pleased with the fact that he hadn't made it. But I think it's tough. It's tough to see somebody continue on something that you've started. But then you learn to just get over it because that's the nature of this business."
"I think the trick to this type of film is you just take it utterly seriously. You don't step outside yourself and try to have fun with it and wink at the audience. You take it absolutely seriously and you don't give the audience a chance to question it. And if the actors can sell it, then it works."

"I think in terms of actual technique, it's [Aliens] crude compared to films made now. But I think in terms of storytelling, it's as good as I'll probably ever be, which is really what filmmaking is all about. It's about the people, it's about the relationships..."
"Of course, then they made the third film and killed everybody" [laughs].

People really need to get over "OH NOES, THEY KILLED HIX 'N NOOT". It's been 22 years.

[LastSurvivor92]

Transcribed from the directors commentary:

"David Fincher did a really good job photographically and so on. I think it's really a well-made film, visually. It's just kind of a slap in the face of the fans who invested in Newt and Hicks and all of those character relationships. I understand the instinct, of course, which is you have to make it your own. I just don't think you should make it your own at the expense of what people like, personally."
"But everybody's gonna make their own decisions. I had to change some things and make it my own on my film. And I know that Ridley probably watched it and wasn't pleased with a lot of things. He probably wasn't pleased with the fact that he hadn't made it. But I think it's tough. It's tough to see somebody continue on something that you've started. But then you learn to just get over it because that's the nature of this business."
"I think the trick to this type of film is you just take it utterly seriously. You don't step outside yourself and try to have fun with it and wink at the audience. You take it absolutely seriously and you don't give the audience a chance to question it. And if the actors can sell it, then it works."

"I think in terms of actual technique, it's [Aliens] crude compared to films made now. But I think in terms of storytelling, it's as good as I'll probably ever be, which is really what filmmaking is all about. It's about the people, it's about the relationships..."
"Of course, then they made the third film and killed everybody" [laughs].

People really need to get over "OH NOES, THEY KILLED HIX 'N NOOT". It's been 22 years.

"Of course, then they made the third film and killed everybody" [laughs].

Sarcasm right there my friends. 

[PsyKore]

I thought it was good. The premise and tone of A3 is excellent.

It's the lack of tension, nondescript characters and flat downtime through the rest of the movie that is disappointing.

[LastSurvivor92]

I thought it was good. The premise and tone of A3 is excellent.

It's the lack of tension, nondescript characters and flat downtime through the rest of the movie that is disappointing.

That downtime though was the time to soak in the atmosphere of the film and engage with the situation at hand. David wanted you to feel uncomfortable and in danger. It wasn't ever suppose to be pleasant or fast paced or even paced at all. It was to show the dread and morbid fear of what these prisoners and Ripley were going through. All of Ripley's friends died, Newt her new daughter in essence, Hicks who she had hope, support and trust in and possibly a future love interest died, and Bishop an android who she grew to trust unlike Ash. They all died. These prisoners who already are trying to live out their lives to the fullest are put in a situation where their friends are dieing left and right and the prison starts turning into complete turmoil mainly BECAUSE of Ripley. So Ripley has to bear the fact that her friends are dead, she brought an Alien onboard and it caused the EEV to eject, the Alien survived and is starting to kill more people AND she has a queen alien inside of her. Well 'f**k' this aint suppose to be a happy movie at all. Alien 3 is a movie where audiences will either sink or swim with it. You either love it or don't.

[SM]

That downtime though was the time to soak in the atmosphere of the film and engage with the situation at hand. David wanted you to feel uncomfortable and in danger.

A lot of the downtime - especially in the Assembly - didn't engage with the situation at hand.  We spent time with prisoners we largely couldn't tell apart and who were dead a short time later.  Additionally we knew Ripley was going to live throughout most (if not all) of the film, and didn't really care if these murderers and rapists we couldn't tell apart died in the meantime.  So it didn't feel especially tense for the most part.

[PsyKore]

Exactly what SM said.

[LastSurvivor92]

That downtime though was the time to soak in the atmosphere of the film and engage with the situation at hand. David wanted you to feel uncomfortable and in danger.

A lot of the downtime - especially in the Assembly - didn't engage with the situation at hand.  We spent time with prisoners we largely couldn't tell apart and who were dead a short time later.  Additionally we knew Ripley was going to live throughout most (if not all) of the film, and didn't really care if these murderers and rapists we couldn't tell apart died in the meantime.  So it didn't feel especially tense for the most part.

True, true SM but that downtime was also trying to help you grasp the situation at hand even if the prisoners were nobody's. I feel like Morse, Golic, Dillion, Boggs and Rains were kind of in a 'backdrop' of characters. You know like background characters that were their to help piece together the setting. I feel like a lot of these characters were previewed for a short time amongst even smaller characters that had no screen time. But the focus was between Dillion, Morse and Golic. Those 3 prisoners were the most influential to the film and were kind of the 'main' characters surrounded by a sort of backdrop of prisoners. Thats how i've always viewed. We weren't really there to get to know everybody, just the prisoners who actually mattered to the story overall.

[SM]

Boggs and Rains had one scene.  Three if you count the AC.  Golic disappeared by the half way mark.

As I've often said, rather than waste time with Murphy, Frank, Boggs and Rains in the first half - you give more time to guys like Morse, Gregor, David and Kevin.  So when Murphy, Boggs, Rains and Frank are also mostly dead by the by the half way mark (like Frost, Drake, Apone et al.) at least those other guys we've spent a bit of time with and gotten to know, and maybe they have repented somewhat, are still alive (a la Hudson, Vasquez and Hicks).

Instead we just have different waves of interchangable unpleasantness, who barely pay even the most basic lip service to Dillon's religious teachings.

[LastSurvivor92]

Boggs and Rains had one scene.  Three if you count the AC.  Golic disappeared by the half way mark.

As I've often said, rather than waste time with Murphy, Frank, Boggs and Rains in the first half - you give more time to guys like Morse, Gregor, David and Kevin.  So when Murphy, Boggs, Rains and Frank are also mostly dead by the by the half way mark (like Frost, Drake, Apone et al.) at least those other guys we've spent a bit of time with and gotten to know, and maybe they have repented somewhat, are still alive (a la Hudson, Vasquez and Hicks).

Instead we just have different waves of interchangable unpleasantness, who barely pay even the most basic lip service to Dillon's religious teachings.

That makes sense. You know I understand how F'ed up the production for this film was and what hell David went through but did it really get THAT bad to the point where they just didn't give 2 shits about the characters and how they developed them?