Cold Iron's Craig Zinkievich Talks Canon

[RidgeTop]

Nice new interview from Shacknews about the game's place in cannon. Essentially the game is 'as canon as fans want it to be.'

[Stitch]

That's a great way of saying its non-canon without actually saying it

[Drukathi]

Nothing wrong with this. Canon is a very liquid and unstable group of some media in the actual time. It changes constantly. And in fact it is not worth the time to argue or to determine the current canon. I will say more - we need more products that frankly won't be considered as a canon and thanks to this they will be creatively free.

[RidgeTop]

Nothing wrong with this. Canon is a very liquid and unstable group of some media in the actual time. It changes constantly. And in fact it is not worth the time to argue or to determine the current canon. I will say more - we need more products that frankly won't be considered as a canon and thanks to this they will be creatively free.

^ This. As I keep saying it's one of the reasons I lament the loss of Alien 5, it would've broken hardline canon and made this the case with the films. But with all the other expanded media, something is canon until it's not, and whatever we are told is canon at the time with books, comics, and games is always subject to chance based on the next film director's ideas. Once a franchise universe gets large enough, eventually things just wont fit, at that point you really just got to arrange things of your preference into your head-canon.

[Xenomorphine]

Nothing wrong with this. Canon is a very liquid and unstable group of some media in the actual time. It changes constantly. And in fact it is not worth the time to argue or to determine the current canon. I will say more - we need more products that frankly won't be considered as a canon and thanks to this they will be creatively free.

Canon shouldn't be such a thing. It's the framework of consistency, by which we get the parameters of what is and isn't applicable.

It's only morphed into that because of how Fox began informally declaring things were canonical without vetting them for quality ('Colonial Marines'), consistency ('Fire And Stone') or both ('Hunting Grounds'), mostly because they just wanted extra sales of whatever the product would be.

Disney hasn't yet taken up any formal stance as regards those things. They seem a bit laissez-faire about it.

The RPG has, unfortunately, more muddied waters than helped to clear them, with the 'everything-is-canon-until-it-isn't' logic, which is great for coming up with random creative games, but absolutely useless for the subject of canon, itself (weirdly, the only point where it does put its foot down is adopting the Alex White retcon about facehugger impregnation, which isn't reconcilable with the Hadley's Hope medical report, instead of continuing to simply be ambiguous).

You can't be a little bit pregnant. You either are or you aren't. Same applies to canon. Is something canon or not? Should be simple as that.

Some things are unknowable, but there are definite points within continuity which should be factual and not open to conjecture.

[BlueMarsalis79]

It is reconcilable, the report's inaccurate, done finitio.

[Xenomorphine]

Nope.

[RidgeTop]

That must be the first time Canon has been compared to pregnancy. I mean... how do you explain multiple continuities then? And don't say multiverse.

Also, let's keep this brief and not turn this into yet another canon debate thread

But if Alien 5 would've happened, it would've just created an alternate canon, not replaced 3 and Resurrection. Same thing with the AVP films, they're not non-canon, they're their own canon.

Look at other franchises like Terminator or DC movies where's you've had quite a few completely different takes on the same material. I see it as the movies are all hard-canon (again Alien 5 would've broken that), and the EU stuff has proven to be more flexible. We've been told certain books and games were considered canon by 20th Century at the time, but now probably are not. I do think that Books and Games are given more continuity attention by the studio than the comics, which have had a history of doing their own thing more. Whatever the studio itself considers canon, which is always changing, shouldn't be taken as etched in stone. So I like Zinkievich's attitude here, which is how I do it anyway, what you like is part of your head-canon, what you don't is discarded or adjusted to fit.

[BlueMarsalis79]

Nope.

Into Charybdis > Aliens

[Drukathi]

#retconaliens

[BlueMarsalis79]

Ahahaha

[Jarac]

So basically non-canon, which makes sense. The Alien franchise seems to have a very hard time nailing down consistency with canon. I blame that on FOX. Hopefully Disney at least does better in this regard. After work, I'll need to go by my local comic shop pick up the Alien comic.

[Xenomrph]

It's not non-canon, he's saying make your own canon. It's the same way the RPG handles it.

You know, the thing I've been saying for years.

Nothing wrong with this. Canon is a very liquid and unstable group of some media in the actual time. It changes constantly. And in fact it is not worth the time to argue or to determine the current canon. I will say more - we need more products that frankly won't be considered as a canon and thanks to this they will be creatively free.

Canon shouldn't be such a thing. It's the framework of consistency, by which we get the parameters of what is and isn't applicable.

Canon itself is a useless concept for the end-user, and it's only somewhat useful for the creative types writing licensed stuff. See also: the links in my signature.

Warhammer40k has the right approach to canon: "Everything is canon, not everything is true". If some sort of contradiction comes up or something happens that a fan doesn't like, they can just say "unreliable narrator" and move on.

It's only morphed into that because of how Fox began informally declaring things were canonical without vetting them for quality ('Colonial Marines'), consistency ('Fire And Stone') or both ('Hunting Grounds'), mostly because they just wanted extra sales of whatever the product would be.

The problem with what you're saying is, it's inconsistent. If you want to abide by "canon", then if the owners of the franchise say something is canon, even if it's contradictory or shitty, it's canon full stop, poor quality and contradictions and all. If you're going to say "Uh well this contradicts so it can't be canon" or "this is shitty so it shouldn't be canon" or "this is only canon as a marketing stunt to make more money, it's not REALLY canon" then you're imposing your own rules on what is canon and what isn't, and that's head-canon.

(note: head-canon is a good thing)

Point is, if you're going to play the "official canon" game then there's a lot of consequences and baggage that comes with it.

So I like Zinkievich's attitude here, which is how I do it anyway, what you like is part of your head-canon, what you don't is discarded or adjusted to fit.

Bingo.

[Jarac]

Honestly, this game is way more worthy of Canon than Colonial Marines.

[ChanceVance]

Honestly, this game is way more worthy of Canon than Colonial Marines.

Colonial Marines story reminds me of watching the director of AVP in behind the scenes videos. They were so in love with the fact they were given the keys to the kingdom of 'canon' they went overboard with it.

I love Hicks too but holy shit Colonial Marines reminds me of bad fan fiction somebody would write to ensure their favourite character got a better ending.