A fundamental question of the franchise - horror element, scary beast

[Drukathi]

I've read a lot of different topics and comments from people who agree with maestro. There are many arguments in support of philosophical themes, prequel directions, and reimaginig the Alien universe. There are also many arguments against, but for, returning to the franchise's roots.

Regardless of this, most people agree on one thing - the Alien no longer scares. And here comes a terrible mistake of thinking - "If the Alien no longer scares, then it is already cooked". It is necessary to abandon the Alien and go to other, new things. For what and why? To maintain the status of horror?

My questions:
1) Is it necessary to maintain the direction of horror?
2) Should Alien be scary?

My answers - no.
1A-Problem) I'm more than sure that the Alien franchise can exist outside of the horror genre. Look at Prometheus and Covenant. Isn't it the horror elements that make these film feel awkward? The elements of horror limit the films and force them to use the same tropes. Oh, a couple of people separated from the team, got lost and got eaten. Oh, shower scene... Oh, some guy went to take a piss, and another decided to sniff a weird mold. Oh, some guy exposed a suspicious android, but he won't tell anyone and will go one-on-one with the robot. What could go wrong? Oh, this is a horror film, but there is so many survivors in the end. Let's sweep them all under the carpet (Vickers, Janek & Co, no name crew of Prometheus and Covenant).
1B-Solution) Avoiding the dumb horror tropes doesn't mean avoiding the "tasty filling". Trilobite extraction, Engineer vs trilobite, Fifield's attack, birth of a praetomorph and neomorph, eradication of Engineers - are breathtaking and beautiful scenes. Keep them. Keep blood and gore but avoid the tropes of horror. The Cabin in the Woods nailed it.
2) Should Alien be scary? Can Alien be scary? This is all subjective. Alien must do terrible and inhuman things, but It depends on your attitude to the Alien. If you like Alien and you are curious about what it can do, then you will not be scared anyway. It is easy to evoke feelings of disgust. But the feeling of fear - no. Especially if you are in the Alien universe for several decades. I just want to say - if you want to get a scary beast, then you don't get one. Because you will not be able to repeat your first experience with the Star Beast. But you can get a smart and unstoppable beast that will crush everything in its path. Or you can get a drooling space cockroach ... and then you get scared!

The problem is not the Alien. You don't have to try to reimagine the beast. But maybe you should try to distance yourself from the horror genre and try to create a more exploratory, detective, adventure aspect.

[SiL]

Asking "Is it still scary" to a bunch of people who've seen the films to death is probably not going to give a terribly accurate audience consensus.

It's a series about chest-bursting brain-eating space monsters. I think yes, it should be horror. All of the weakest entries are those that either sidelined the inherent terror of the concept or were too cartoonish to be taken seriously.

[Kradan]

I really can't remember ever being trully scared by an Alien movie. I was scared shitless by a SAW movie which immediately turned me away from the series. If the same would've happened with an Alien movie I doubt I'd get into it nearly as much as I do

At this point these are things I want from an Alien movie:

1. Tough Aliens which don't die 15 minutes after their birth, beatifully shot in shadows with proper usage of practical effects and CGI

2. Interesting engaging story (some mystery and phylosophical subtexts would be apreciated) and characters that need to have some smarts to over-come threat of Alien

3. Cool sci-fi setting and just cool sci-fi elements in general (spaceships, future weaponry, devices etc.)

[seattle24]

Asking "Is it still scary" to a bunch of people who've seen the films to death is probably not going to give a terribly accurate audience consensus.

It's a series about chest-bursting brain-eating space monsters. I think yes, it should be horror. All of the weakest entries are those that either sidelined the inherent terror of the concept or were too cartoonish to be taken seriously.

All of this. Definitely.

The stove underneath the meat needs to be hot. As SiL said, we're not necessarily ever going to be frightened of the Alien again, if we ever were (in Kraden's case). But the scenario needs to be frightening. The idea of being stranded on the Orca in the middle of the ocean, knowing or not knowing what is lurking beneath is as scary as a great white shark.

Subtleties are scary as well. The fact the Alien in the original is largely silent, as is the Shark in jaws, is uneasy. Claustrophobia, dread and tension are key elements Alien maintains to this day, before you even take the Alien into account - most of the other films don't have have these fundamentals.

[SiL]

I think the biggest problem with sequels in horror franchises is that often the starting assumption is that it's not scary any more, and so the filmmakers sort of half-heartedly go at it. They concede defeat before they begin.

There's no reason the Alien can't be scary any more. It just needs the right treatment -- as with anything. Sharks are plenty scary in real life, but the number of genuinely scary shark movies is fairly low. We've all seen movies about psychopaths and serial killers, and yet every now and then one is done so well it still gets under our skin.

[Gazz]

In many ways I understand why Ridley Scott keeps referring to the Alien as being 'done' and I feel quite similarly but only when it comes to lazy portrayals of the creature. It's not good enough to just present the Alien in a film anymore. Over films, books and video games, it has been kinda done to death. I don't find the alien all that terrifying in appearance anymore but conceptually the Alien remains terrifying to me and thematically, there is a lot of horror still left to explore. It should be more than a slasher beastie as many different filmmakers and artists have treated it over the years. I think Scott bringing the body-horror aspects back to the forefront in his last two prequels gave the beast some bite again (in my opinion) and it's no wonder that those two birthing scenes are the most effective in terms of horror. It's a shame he doesn't do much with the original Alien because otherwise, I love what he does with the creatures in Covenant.

[Stitch]

The creature itself is horrific. It is a nightmare.

There's no reason why a good horror movie can't be made, without the camp and the cliche. Any failures with that come down to the drive and skill of the people behind the scenes.

Ridley believes the beast is cooked, therefore he won't make a good horror movie with an alien, because he doesn't believe it can be done.

[David Weyland]

Although not scary to me anymore seeing Aliens on tv by chance as a 9 year old first time was so traumatic, couldn't watch beyond them first being attacked in the atmosphere processor and took me a few years to face up to it and Alien 😄
First two movies have that unkind unknown tense edge, kind of lost it after that.
By that point we know enough about what the xenomorph is
I think Prometheus had some horrible moments right up there e.g.) medpod scene but was never once 'scared or horrified' by Covenant despite some of Davids psych warfare & the neomorph births and attack

I think to get fear factor further in next film, it needs to be brutally cold & murderous(not necessarily bloody) but lots of human harvesting, chestbursting and icky hive stuff with a really sad bleak ending of heroic human sacrifice or failure as the species persists

[Drukathi]

I think the biggest problem with sequels in horror franchises is that often the starting assumption is that it's not scary any more, and so the filmmakers sort of half-heartedly go at it. They concede defeat before they begin.

This is actually a very, very good point. Prejudice like "well, it was already done before" kills inspiration - the basis of creativity.

But what about the Mummy? It was a classic horror with many sequels. But the legendary Mummy 1999 change the rules. The film switched from horror to adventure. Sure, there are some clichеs and horror moments here, but the film doesn't give a shit about it. This is a dynamic and addictive action. Perhaps such a formula really gives a fresh breath to the Alien. Of course - less humor, more blood, but definitely without "Oh, hey, we're going to scare you!"
Horror should not be the point, the goal of the story, but the means of narrative.

medpod scene but was never once 'scared or horrified' by Covenant despite some of Davids psych warfare & the neomorph births and attack

That's what I'm talking about. It doesn't have to be scary! It should be breathtaking, eye-catching. This should not cause reactions such as covering your face with your hands or turning away. On the contrary - it should catch your eye and make you look at the screen without stopping.
When I saw the scenes with the medpod or with the neomorph and praetomorph birth, I didn't think like: "Oh, that's scary. Oh, shi ...". No, I think like: "Wow! This is really cool!" My attention is riveted to the screen. It's not like: "Oh! Look. Two dumbass for no reason separated from the team and went to stroke an alien snake, because the horror genre demands it from them."

[SiL]

Scott was trying to scare you with those scenes. He obviously failed. That doesn't feel like a great endorsement for not making the movies horror focused.

[426Buddy]

"Scary" is just so subjective and personal. Half the folks strutting around here (or anywhere) will tell nothing scares them anyway.

When you have people who are adults and well versed in body horror then yeah Covenant wasn't scary. Go watch it with some 8 year olds and they'll probably find it a bit more unsettling.

[SM]

1) Is it necessary to maintain the direction of horror?
2) Should Alien be scary?

1) Yes.
2) Yes.

This is a horror franchise.  The mistake is assuming it's just horror and only horror.

[SiL]

Horror should drive the car, social and existential commentary should be passengers.

[426Buddy]

I enjoy horror films and especially horror/scifi. It's one of my favorite aspects of the series overall.

Doesn't mean I like bad tropes and cliches though.

[SM]

I enjoy horror films and especially horror/scifi. It's one of my favorite aspects of the series overall.

Doesn't mean I like bad tropes and cliches though.

I remember that Daniel Radcliffe flick Woman In Black had every single horror cliché ever, and you could see them coming - but still ended up being remarkably effective.