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Updated: Fox ‘Reassessing’ Future of Alien Series After Alien Covenant

It appears any more films in the Alien franchise could be in jeopardy once again. Sources have confirmed to The Hollywood Reporter that Fox is currently ‘reassessing’ the two intended Alien prequels that Ridley Scott had planned to do after Alien Covenant.

Upon its release, Alien Covenant was met with a mixed critical and fan reaction and the worldwide box office takings stands at $232 million, with Japan still left to open in September. Covenant’s revenue dropped by a massive 71% in its second weekend and eventually made just over half of Prometheus’s $403 million.

 Fox 'Reassessing' Future of Alien Series After Alien Covenant

I wouldn’t personally call Alien Covenant a box office failure. It still made much more money than its $97 million budget and it was foolish to think it was ever going to make as much money as Prometheus did. Ridley Scott made it clear that he wanted to do two, maybe three more Alien prequels – he already said the next movie, tentatively titled Alien Awakening, had already been written. Given Covenant’s ending, it definitely needs another movie to tie up everything with David. Since Covenant, Scott has shifted his attention to making the crime drama All the Money in the World with Mark Wahlberg and Kevin Spacey and after that, he’ll move onto the drug lord drama The Cartel.

So what does this all mean? 20th Century Fox could still press ahead with Ridley Scott’s plans for more movies in his prequel series – perhaps with a lower budget. There is always the option 20th Century Fox could reboot the Alien franchise in a few years time with a brand new story completely unrelated to Ripley or the Engineers. I wouldn’t be adverse to that idea. I enjoyed Covenant but I wouldn’t mind something different completely unrelated to Space Jockeys or David.

Another option is to revive Neill Blomkamp’s Alien sequel idea of resurrecting Ripley and Hicks but given Sigourney Weaver and Blomkamp have moved onto new things, I highly doubt that would ever happen. Lastly, seeing how the new Predator movie does next year, I really wouldn’t be surprised to see a new Alien vs Predator reboot on the horizon.

Update 24/07/2017 – Discussing the matter on their YouTube channel, Collider’s Steve Weintraub revealed that through his own sources he had heard about Fox’s original plans for post-Covenant. According to Weintraub, Fox was going to tie directly into Alien with a third prequel and then move off into the future past the other films with new characters and storylines, something like a soft reboot.



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  1. Corporal Hicks
    One thing for all of you to ponder on: what if sped-up properties of impregnation came as a result of eggs being directly subjected to accelerant by David as opposed to eggs we know from Alien which might be Xeno-made?

    What if every subsequent Xeno born within their own life-cycle was genetically inferior and dilluted version of the "Xeno zero" (which enjoys the benefits of the accelerant the most) that was artificially created by David.

    While I don't necessarily agree with the second part of that theory, something ADF mentioned in the novelization was that David has deliberately sped up the life cyle. That's something I could buy into.

    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.

    And sadly predictable.

    Some people are incapable or liking or not liking it, without slagging off the opposing view.

    Yes, It's perfectly reasonable to blame Ridley if the film isn't satisfying to you. So long as you're not saying he's senile or lost it and crap like that then I think it's valid to question the decisions he's made.

    Either the films you're cuppa tea or it's not, it's that simple really.

    Indeed. Look guys, it makes me sad that I have to come on here and play school teacher so often. We're supposed to be adults. Why are so many of you incapable of acting like that? If you can't disagree respectfully or maturely, just don't interact.
  2. Huntsman
    I hope they get to finish this series. My wish would be ending the prequels in a way that neatly sets up Alien. For example, putting the eggs onboard the alien spacecraft and exploring what the distress call was all about.
  3. 0321recon
    Personally, I think the best way to make lemonade eight the footage that was shot would be:

    1. All of the footage filmed for virals remain as virals. No opening with Weyland.
    2. Open the movie on the Covenant with Walter.
    3. The flashback is 12 minutes long and has all of the Shaw stuff.
    You also had great input about the editing. Didn't mean to exclude you. I don't know the best way to make lemonade, but I'm sure there is enough footage to do something more than was done. It's unfortunate.

    No way would I ever remove the weyland opening, it's one of the best scenes across either of the prequels and some of the most intelligent dialogue too.
    I agree. I'd leave that alone. Though, like I mentioned before I'd add back those 12 minutes with Shaw since their pivotal to the film.
  4. Jonesy1974
    Personally, I think the best way to make lemonade eight the footage that was shot would be:

    1. All of the footage filmed for virals remain as virals. No opening with Weyland.
    2. Open the movie on the Covenant with Walter.
    3. The flashback is 12 minutes long and has all of the Shaw stuff.
    You also had great input about the editing. Didn't mean to exclude you. I don't know the best way to make lemonade, but I'm sure there is enough footage to do something more than was done. It's unfortunate.

    No way would I ever remove the weyland opening, it's one of the best scenes across either of the prequels and some of the most intelligent dialogue too.
  5. XenoHunter99
    Personally, I think the best way to make lemonade eight the footage that was shot would be:

    1. All of the footage filmed for virals remain as virals. No opening with Weyland.
    2. Open the movie on the Covenant with Walter.
    3. The flashback is 12 minutes long and has all of the Shaw stuff.
    You also had great input about the editing. Didn't mean to exclude you. I don't know the best way to make lemonade, but I'm sure there is enough footage to do something more than was done. It's unfortunate.
  6. bb-15
    The architecture isn't primitive lol!
    The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook.

    The issue here imo is gut reaction vs. trying to find out the intent of the various filmmakers of the Alien franchise, including with the two prequels.

    The Engineer home world architecture leads to your gut, telling you to doubt that the "ground-dwellers made that skyhook". OK, that's fine for you. It can be your personal canon for instance.
    - However, I don't have the same gut reactions as you do as we are different people.
    * And I'm a person who goes into the details of what the filmmakers intended.
    - To me in a fictional universe, when the filmmakers try to establish something, this determines what is "true" in that fictional world.

    * The co-script writer of "Prometheus", Jon Spaihts, determined (in his draft scripts) that the Engineers had a mixture of architecture and physical appearance of creatures which included both Giger's designs and classical European / Middle-east architecture / design.
    * In "Prometheus" the mixture of Giger and classic design is clearly shown in the Shrine room.
    - The relief / wall sculpture is dominated by Giger design elements.
    - However the ceiling painting is based on classic European art. The giant head sculpture is influenced by classic Egyptian, Greek/Roman design.
    - The Engineers themselves look like classic Greek/European sculpture.
    - But the Deacon has a Giger influenced design.

    * In "Covenant" the Engineer design language started by Jon Spaihts continues (the mixture of Giger and classic Greek/European elements). 

    - Conclusion about this fictional world; the ground-dwellers in "Covenant" made what we see in the Engineer city.

    The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers.

    Imo the creators of a fictional world can have old style architecture, clothing in an advanced, future culture.
    This is true in these science fiction franchises; Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, and so on.
    And now imo this is true in the Alien franchise.

    Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar.

    What is seen is only a glimpse of a large plaza on the Engineer planet.
    If I looked at just an overhead view of the Louvre Museum or of the Egyptian pyramids, I would not know all the technology of earth such as the Hadron Collider. 
    One glimpse of a world does not = seeing the total technology of a world.
    - Instead again, with a fictional universe what the creators of that universe intend is useful in understanding what is going on. 

    ;)
  7. Gash
    . I commented because you almost use it as if its a fact rather a metaphor that the hugger is sexually reproducing, which its not. Parasitism is not sexual.


    Face rape, birth, Kane's son...

    The Facehugger is not a parasite, it's an 'ambulatory penis' - that was the intention from O'Bannon, Giger et al.

    Perhaps these facts have been watered down by the sequels, but I doubt it.
  8. Protozoid
    The architecture isn't primitive lol!
    The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers. The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook. Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar. So riddle me this, my fine feathered friend: Who are these people and how do they relate to the Engineers as seen on LV223? Since David slaughtered them, it may not matter; but I'd love to know.

    No worries, thanks for apologising.

    I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
    Cool!
    I agree, I'd sit through 3hr version that works really well. You could be right about the time limit, though later posts provide really interesting discussion about the editors having a lot of influence on that.

    More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

    ***

    You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

    If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
    Your insights about the editing are great! I doubt we'll find out exactly what happened, but thanks for all that. Naturally I think the movie would be better with that 12 minutes restored along with other cut scenes. I wonder what would have happened if the movie had been edited in nonlinear time, like Pulp Fiction?

    That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Begin the film with the David and Weyland sequence. Then cut with the Covenant crew viral of them having fun before going into cryo (even if some of the scene is cringe, though help cement crew in our minds). Then, cut back to ten years and show the events in Paradise, then finally cut back to the Covenant crew waking up into disaster. With that we have a connection with the crew, then were shocked to the events in both Paradise and the deaths that occur in the Covenant setting the tone of foreboding and doom.

    Went to film school and our professors taught us to edit a sequence depending on character, and story instead of pacing. This could have been one of the solutions to fix this problem. However, sadly it seems that wasn't done in this case.
    Personally, I think the best way to make lemonade out the footage that was shot would be:

    1. All of the footage filmed for virals remain as virals. No opening with Weyland.
    2. Open the movie on the Covenant with Walter.
    3. The flashback is 12 minutes long and has all of the Shaw stuff.
  9. 0321recon
    The architecture isn't primitive lol!
    The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers. The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook. Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar. So riddle me this, my fine feathered friend: Who are these people and how do they relate to the Engineers as seen on LV223? Since David slaughtered them, it may not matter; but I'd love to know.

    No worries, thanks for apologising.

    I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
    Cool!
    I agree, I'd sit through 3hr version that works really well. You could be right about the time limit, though later posts provide really interesting discussion about the editors having a lot of influence on that.

    More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

    ***

    You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

    If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
    Your insights about the editing are great! I doubt we'll find out exactly what happened, but thanks for all that. Naturally I think the movie would be better with that 12 minutes restored along with other cut scenes. I wonder what would have happened if the movie had been edited in nonlinear time, like Pulp Fiction?

    That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Begin the film with the David and Weyland sequence. Then cut with the Covenant crew viral of them having fun before going into cryo (even if some of the scene is cringe, though help cement crew in our minds). Then, cut back to ten years and show the events in Paradise, then finally cut back to the Covenant crew waking up into disaster. With that we have a connection with the crew, then were shocked to the events in both Paradise and the deaths that occur in the Covenant setting the tone of foreboding and doom.

    Went to film school and our professors taught us to edit a sequence depending on character, and story instead of pacing. This could have been one of the solutions to fix this problem. However, sadly it seems that wasn't done in this case. 
  10. XenoHunter99
    The architecture isn't primitive lol!
    The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers. The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook. Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar. So riddle me this, my fine feathered friend: Who are these people and how do they relate to the Engineers as seen on LV223? Since David slaughtered them, it may not matter; but I'd love to know.

    No worries, thanks for apologising.

    I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
    Cool!
    I agree, I'd sit through 3hr version that works really well. You could be right about the time limit, though later posts provide really interesting discussion about the editors having a lot of influence on that.

    More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

    ***

    You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

    If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
    Your insights about the editing are great! I doubt we'll find out exactly what happened, but thanks for all that. Naturally I think the movie would be better with that 12 minutes restored along with other cut scenes. I wonder what would have happened if the movie had been edited in nonlinear time, like Pulp Fiction?
  11. 0321recon
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
    Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

    Great points. It doesn't help when Pietro Scalia admits there was a 12 minute bridge of Prometheus and Covenant that delve into what occurred with Shaw and David, and that was cut for pacing since they liked the introduction with David and Weyland. Then, they trimmed those twelve minutes to a two minute crossing viral. Stupid in my part. I would of liked to seen this at least as a deleted scene, though they didn't even bother put it in on the blu-ray.

    Then, the whole advent viral feels like a mid or end credits stinger that could have helped explain David's twisted thought process, and also helped the audience get ready for what's going to occur in the final film. Though, that was left to the side also. I had to tell a person to watch the film, then watch the short so they got an idea of what was occurring with David, Shaw, the engineers and the path for the final film. Afterwards, they told me, they were shocked though, made the film better in their point of view.

    Having read that Fox was pushing Scott to trim the film down to extent of not even showing the bombing sequence, shows that Fox was at it again on meddling with the film. Though, Scott could of told them, hey give me an extended cut like Kingdom of Heaven, and I'll do the trims you want, so in that part, he washes his hands, though not even that. In the end, I like the film since I see what Scott was going for from the interviews, virals, etc though I agree, this film needed to be at least 30 minutes longer.  I again say, FOX I hope you're reading this, release a damn extended cut!
    "They" didn't agree completely. Scalia wanted to use the Weyland viral shot by Jake Scott to open the film. It was never meant for that purpose. Scott wanted to cut it and Scalia talked him out of it. The bombing scene barely made it into the film at Scotts insistence. My reading of this is that very few people during the writing and editing process agreed with Scott for him to get his way.

    It was different with Kingdom of Heaven partly because it had a different editor, Dody Corn, who fought for the longer cut from the beginning. She would not let the dictates of pacing override what sue thought was best for the story. Sue didn't want them to cut an important subplot, for example, that Scott had to fight just to get permission to shoot. This parallels Covenant in that both films had a major subplot involving a female character that interrupted the flow of the main narrative, but was absolutely crucial to the story, the motivation of the female lead, and was one of the reasons Scott wanted to make the film in the first place. Dody Dorn fought for story and character and fought against studio pressure to make compromises for pacing. Scalia, on the other hand, compromised story for paciness even h yond what was necessary, particularly with Prometheus.

    More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

    You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

    If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
  12. Protozoid
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
    Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

    Great points. It doesn't help when Pietro Scalia admits there was a 12 minute bridge of Prometheus and Covenant that delve into what occurred with Shaw and David, and that was cut for pacing since they liked the introduction with David and Weyland. Then, they trimmed those twelve minutes to a two minute crossing viral. Stupid in my part. I would of liked to seen this at least as a deleted scene, though they didn't even bother put it in on the blu-ray.

    Then, the whole advent viral feels like a mid or end credits stinger that could have helped explain David's twisted thought process, and also helped the audience get ready for what's going to occur in the final film. Though, that was left to the side also. I had to tell a person to watch the film, then watch the short so they got an idea of what was occurring with David, Shaw, the engineers and the path for the final film. Afterwards, they told me, they were shocked though, made the film better in their point of view.

    Having read that Fox was pushing Scott to trim the film down to extent of not even showing the bombing sequence, shows that Fox was at it again on meddling with the film. Though, Scott could of told them, hey give me an extended cut like Kingdom of Heaven, and I'll do the trims you want, so in that part, he washes his hands, though not even that. In the end, I like the film since I see what Scott was going for from the interviews, virals, etc though I agree, this film needed to be at least 30 minutes longer.  I again say, FOX I hope you're reading this, release a damn extended cut!
    "They" didn't agree completely. Scalia wanted to use the Weyland viral shot by Jake Scott to open the film. It was never meant for that purpose. Scott wanted to cut it and Scalia talked him out of it. The bombing scene barely made it into the film at Scott's insistence. My reading of this is that very few people during the writing and editing process agreed with Scott and that made it difficult for him to get his way.

    It was different with Kingdom of Heaven partly because it had a different editor, Dody Dorn, who fought for the longer cut from the beginning. She would not let the dictates of pacing override what she thought was best for the story. She didn't want them to cut an important subplot, for example, that Scott had to fight just to get permission to shoot. This parallels Covenant in that both films had a major subplot involving a female character that interrupted the flow of the main narrative, but was absolutely crucial to the story, the motivations, and was one of the reasons Scott wanted to make the film in the first place. Dody Dorn fought for story and character and fought against studio pressure to make compromises for pacing. Scalia, on the other hand, compromised story for paciness even beyond what was necessary, particularly with Prometheus.

    More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.
  13. System Apollo
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
    Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.
    The architecture isn't primitive lol!
  14. 0321recon
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
    Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

    Great points. It doesn't help when Pietro Scalia admits there was a 12 minute bridge of Prometheus and Covenant that delve into what occurred with Shaw and David, and that was cut for pacing since they liked the introduction with David and Weyland. Then, they trimmed those twelve minutes to a two minute crossing viral. Stupid in my part. I would of liked to seen this at least as a deleted scene, though they didn't even bother put it in on the blu-ray.

    Then, the whole advent viral feels like a mid or end credits stinger that could have helped explain David's twisted thought process, and also helped the audience get ready for what's going to occur in the final film. Though, that was left to the side also. I had to tell a person to watch the film, then watch the short so they got an idea of what was occurring with David, Shaw, the engineers and the path for the final film. Afterwards, they told me, they were shocked though, made the film better in their point of view.

    Having read that Fox was pushing Scott to trim the film down to extent of not even showing the bombing sequence, shows that Fox was at it again on meddling with the film. Though, Scott could of told them, hey give me an extended cut like Kingdom of Heaven, and I'll do the trims you want, so in that part, he washes his hands, though not even that. In the end, I like the film since I see what Scott was going for from the interviews, virals, etc though I agree, this film needed to be at least 30 minutes longer.  I again say, FOX I hope you're reading this, release a damn extended cut!
  15. Jonesy1974
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
    Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

    No worries, thanks for apologising.

    I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
  16. XenoHunter99
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
    Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.
  17. prometheusfire08

    pretty certain David implanted him when he was fixing the gauze.........

    completely hilarious that you are all arguing over a totally moot point lol
  18. The Cruentus


    Marachuk. Marachuk. Marachuk. Also other victim, other victim, other victim.  :P
    To clarify, both of these hosts had their facehugger under attack, yet both of them didn't implant anything.



    Lope's facehugger could have stayed on his face for hours. It didn't fall off on its own. They pried it off.
    We don't know how long it takes to implant the alien. We just know how long the hugger stays attached on a face on its own.
    [/b]

    As I just said, Marachuk and another victim had their facehugger forcibly removed as well, yet both of the parasites did not implant anything. Bishop:"surgically removed before implantation"

    Around 24 hours according to some sources, implantation does take place hours before then but the Hugger itself can remain attached for more than a day likely to ensure the implant developes unimpeded. While the exact time is inconsistent, its mostly hours, only the AVP films, Covenant and a few other formats have had it at minutes.
  19. Kane's other son


    Marachuk. Marachuk. Marachuk. Also other victim, other victim, other victim.  :P
    To clarify, both of these hosts had their facehugger under attack, yet both of them didn't implant anything.



    Lope's facehugger could have stayed on his face for hours. It didn't fall off on its own. They pried it off.
    We don't know how long it takes to implant the alien. We just know how long the hugger stays attached on a face on its own.
  20. The Cruentus

    Since you seem to like using sexual metaphor stuff regarding the facehugger, the reason why it wouldn't just implant immediately upon forcing its ovipositor into someone's throat would then be same as why men don't immediately ejaculate when only just engaging in intercourse.  :P


    Well, if you can't see the obvious - that the facehugger is a sexual metaphor in itself - there's not much point in starting alien education 101 on you is there?

    Perfectly aware of that as it was giger's style so don't be rude. I commented because you almost use it as if its a fact rather a metaphor that the hugger is sexually reproducing, which its not. Parasitism is not sexual, there is no "tantric sex" etc even if you were just joking, its simply just evoking all that stuff in our minds. There is plenty of metaphors to be found in the Alien franchise, well back then anyway, the newer movies obviously lacked giger's touch.

    Honestly. There are plenty of reasons its not that strange in this film. First. We are not seeing the final version of the xeno. We know that, so it could change. Second, the Facehugger was immediately under attack, and you could argue that it's seed was released for that reason. Lastly, all the hate over how quickly it's birthed is kind of unfounded. It takes about an hour for them to get on the ship and then, they go to sleep, wake up, make breakfast etc etc.

    Marachuk. Marachuk. Marachuk. Also other victim, other victim, other victim.  :P
    To clarify, both of these hosts had their facehugger under attack, yet both of them didn't implant anything.

    Around 8 hours or so actually if the comments about mother being down for that amount is anything to go by. Meaning it kind of contradicts what is already in the movie with Oram, who's incubation was probably only minutes.


    I agree that those that dislike or like a film should not attack those of a different opinion, after all we are all entitled to our different views. The only time I would probably question (civily of course) another's negative opinion on a film, is if their reasons for doing so can actually be found in a film that they consider their favorite, making their reasons hypocritical.
  21. System Apollo
    It was a decent overall film but in the end its formula depended on really broken premises and poorly written characters that were not very convincing in their roles. They aren't going to stop the sequels but they won't let Ridley do more than one, hopefully he closes his arc sensibly. The belly-aching has gotten so bad since Prometheus. These weren't bad films and they'll hold weight unlike the previous installments in this beloved franchise. As for the Facehugger incubating for a short period of time and it being relative to science; there is no way you can cut it, Alien is just not concerned with actual biology. I like to believe it attached itself later or the Alien caught up with the character later on.
  22. SM
    Quote
    Yes, It's perfectly reasonable to blame Ridley if the film isn't satisfying to you. So long as you're not saying he's senile or lost it and crap like that then I think it's valid to question the decisions he's made.

    Either the films you're cuppa tea or it's not, it's that simple really.

    Quite.
  23. Highland
    It's not like the xenos in Covenant ( or the huggers) are massively different though. You can do hand wavey things with the plot but as far as improvements go I'm not sure how you express that on film other than David saying "my perfect creature" ... at which point we see the same life cycle and the same Alien ( probably getting blown out an airlock).

    I guess the only thing I can think of is a queen to finish/start the life cycle.
  24. Jonesy1974
    It's not about making Riddles a scapegoat - he is the guy in the chair and it's ultimately his responsibility.  If someone hates the film; they're going to blame him which is pretty fair.  More often they'll blame this amorphous thing named 'Fox'.

    Quote
    Lastly, all the hate over how quickly it's birthed is kind of unfounded. It takes about an hour for them to get on the ship and then, they go to sleep, wake up, make breakfast etc etc.

    The not really the issue though.

    Yes, It's perfectly reasonable to blame Ridley if the film isn't satisfying to you. So long as you're not saying he's senile or lost it and crap like that then I think it's valid to question the decisions he's made.

    Either the films you're cuppa tea or it's not, it's that simple really.

    We don't know that it's not the final version of the xeno, we are just assuming that because it looks different, but they always look different.

    No, we don't know it isn't but I think it's fairly likely. It's not just the different look, I thought Davids reaction to seeing his pets defeated was an indication and it also follows the themes that he would want to perfect it.

    I think I'll be disappointed if it doesn't go that way. If it ever happens of course.
  25. SM
    It's not about making Riddles a scapegoat - he is the guy in the chair and it's ultimately his responsibility.  If someone hates the film; they're going to blame him which is pretty fair.  More often they'll blame this amorphous thing named 'Fox'.

    Quote
    Lastly, all the hate over how quickly it's birthed is kind of unfounded. It takes about an hour for them to get on the ship and then, they go to sleep, wake up, make breakfast etc etc.

    The not really the issue though.
  26. necrotard
    I don't understand what's unclear about David being the creator.

    The only evidence against it that I keep seeing people reference is the mural from Prometheus which doesn't even look like a xeno anyway.
  27. CainsSon
    And sadly predictable.

    Some people are incapable or liking or not liking it, without slagging off the opposing view.

    Or making Ridley Scott some scapegoat for instance. I suppose Im slogging off but Im just annoyed with the whole things over-all. I have many issues with the film and some of them are things that I believe remain defensible anyway. For instance, I greatly dislike that David is made to seem the Creator of the Xeno in the film, and there isn't a concrete statement made (until now with the ADVENT viral) regarding whether it existed prior. But I also love the idea of his android resentment of humanity's ability to mate/pro-create and this vague sexual-frustration having been the source of creating the biomechanical freudiannightmare that is the alien. It absolutely fits with the themes whether its what I wanted not. Recognizing that just because something happens that you wish didn't doesnt make the film BAD, is positive even when your criticising it. And that's just the thing. Liking and disliking is one thing, getting carried away, which is what happened to al ot of this fan base, after this film was released is entirely another. There is little objectivity. It's either an abortion that ruined the franchise forever and Ridley Scott needs to kill himself and never touch the series he created ever again, or people thought it was great and cant wait to see more. It's quite silly, isn't it? Meanwhile, it's basically a mid-range Alien film. Nowhere near the worst, and not on par with the best.





    Since you seem to like using sexual metaphor stuff regarding the facehugger, the reason why it wouldn't just implant immediately upon forcing its ovipositor into someone's throat would then be same as why men don't immediately ejaculate when only just engaging in intercourse.  :P


    Well, if you can't see the obvious - that the facehugger is a sexual metaphor in itself - there's not much point in starting alien education 101 on you is there?

    And, jeez, the reason (most) men don't ejaculate when only just engaging in intercourse is because it's a pleasurable act that is going to be more pleasurable if it's not over and done with in ten seconds. But that's not true in the animal kingdom where procreation is the aim and sex does only last seconds. It is therefore perfectly in keeping with nature and no stretch to believe at all.

    But of course, whilst Dallas was listening to Mozart in the shuttle Ash was playing Barry White in the infirmary.

    Honestly. There are plenty of reasons its not that strange in this film. First. We are not seeing the final version of the xeno. We know that, so it could change. Second, the Facehugger was immediately under attack, and you could argue that it's seed was released for that reason. Lastly, all the hate over how quickly it's birthed is kind of unfounded. It takes about an hour for them to get on the ship and then, they go to sleep, wake up, make breakfast etc etc.
  28. Highland
    There are some epic mental gymnastics going on though. If Ridley Scott decides that the Biomechanical elements of the Alien happen because the Alien goo accidentally spilled onto a floppy disk, there would 100% be a 27 page thread with a lot of fans saying "What the hell man?" whilst there will be a core group of about 15 people saying "Makes perfect sense, I don't see the issue, here's the life cycle of some floppy discs I found back in my dads office"
  29. Gash

    Since you seem to like using sexual metaphor stuff regarding the facehugger, the reason why it wouldn't just implant immediately upon forcing its ovipositor into someone's throat would then be same as why men don't immediately ejaculate when only just engaging in intercourse.  :P


    Well, if you can't see the obvious - that the facehugger is a sexual metaphor in itself - there's not much point in starting alien education 101 on you is there?

    And, jeez, the reason (most) men don't ejaculate when only just engaging in intercourse is because it's a pleasurable act that is going to be more pleasurable if it's not over and done with in ten seconds. But that's not true in the animal kingdom where procreation is the aim and sex does only last seconds. It is therefore perfectly in keeping with nature and no stretch to believe at all.

    But of course, whilst Dallas was listening to Mozart in the shuttle Ash was playing Barry White in the infirmary.
  30. Jonesy1974
    I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

    That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

    To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
  31. Jonesy1974
    You just said that coz I said a reasonable thing and you can't refute it ;)
    Lot of stuff said in this thread is reasonable, but the gymnastics people like you are doing to smooth over all this stuff that doesn't fit is ridiculous. You've put more energy into it than Ridley himself. In fact, I'll go you one further: Ridley doesn't give a rat's ass about any of it.

    Alien is a movie he made a long time ago. What he's doing now is other stuff, but he's abusing Alien's reputation to do it. And he surely had the studio telling him, "Put the alien in that." So he did, but he did it in this half-assed way that mangles the pacing and story flow of his movies while reducing the creature to nothing noteworthy, a bug to squash.

    Some of you people are eating it up, yum yum. Ridley's laughing 'cause all he cares about is big bald white folk who may or may not have made us and androids with ai imperatives that resemble skynet's programming. Some of you think that's great. Maybe it is. As I said earlier, David making the Alien is not a continuity issue. It does change the whole story.

    If the movies were actually better movies, it might be fine. But the movies we're getting are just not that great. They have serious problems with flow, pacing, story presentation, character development, internal logic, and so on. The energy you and other people here spend to resolve the problems with these deeply flawed movies is remarkable. This overgrown thread is a testament to all that.

    I dunno about all that, I just like the movie. I don't see why people like you have such a hard time accepting that.
  32. XenoHunter99
    You just said that coz I said a reasonable thing and you can't refute it ;)
    Lot of stuff said in this thread is reasonable, but the gymnastics people like you are doing to smooth over all this stuff that doesn't fit is ridiculous. You've put more energy into it than Ridley himself. In fact, I'll go you one further: Ridley doesn't give a rat's ass about any of it.

    Alien is a movie he made a long time ago. What he's doing now is other stuff, but he's abusing Alien's reputation to do it. And he surely had the studio telling him, "Put the alien in that." So he did, but he did it in this half-assed way that mangles the pacing and story flow of his movies while reducing the creature to nothing noteworthy, a bug to squash.

    Some of you people are eating it up, yum yum. Ridley's laughing 'cause all he cares about is big bald white folk who may or may not have made us and androids with ai imperatives that resemble skynet's programming. Some of you think that's great. Maybe it is. As I said earlier, David making the Alien is not a continuity issue. It does change the whole story.

    If the movies were actually better movies, it might be fine. But the movies we're getting are just not that great. They have serious problems with flow, pacing, story presentation, character development, internal logic, and so on. The energy you and other people here spend to resolve the problems with these deeply flawed movies is remarkable. This overgrown thread is a testament to all that.
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