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Author Topic: Arnold talks about The Predator  (Read 18856 times)

Stealth_Hunter
Apr 30, 2017, 08:18:11 PM
Reply #285 on: Apr 30, 2017, 08:18:11 PM
Q
People to this day (as some posts on this board show) wanted a "Dutch" sequel or story line at least for another movie or two.  There is nothing "wrong" with that.
Agreed.

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For as much as I wanted that too...I understand the reality of the situation now too much time has passed, the window is likely closed...to tell that story (unless you really wanted to dig deep and fill in the gaps, which Black and Fox don't seem to want to do...which is fine).
I wish everyone had this perspective. But the thread displays more of a "they don't care about what 'most fans' want" argument; a notion I find invalid.
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Which is the "struggle" for the fans that wanted the "Dutch story"...the reality is we still want it.  We love the Predator, the creature that he is...think he's awesome etc...the fans that want the Dutch-story, don't disregard the Predator...so the "struggle" is moving on...seeing this creature, this could have been story...this big missing peice in the franchise...never coming to be...and "us" having to jump on board with the direction this thing is now going.

Sounds like a dramatic "struggle" of not getting what one wants which becomes petulant by holding today's filmmaker accountable for what didn't happen in 1990.

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Keep in mind Alien had worn out the Ripley story...so those fans are allowed to say "okay let's do whatever now".  New Universe, new story, this that..."we're good on the Ripley stuff...we got that thing A-Z...we can move on and out..."

Dutch-Predator fans...never got to do that. And it's left a sour taste in our mouth to this day.

And there is nothing "wrong" with that.
Yeah there's nothing inherently wrong with being upset and struggling to face the reality of where the franchise is. I don't think that is the debate. I see something wrong with using baseless claims to say why the decisions being made today aren't proper, especially since fans don't all want Arnold in a central role.

You can have both.
It comes at a high cost in 2017, unfortunately. Arnold isn't the same in the eyes of audiences.

Because people like going on journeys with characters. Whether it's Ellen Ripley, Indiana Jones, Roland Deschain, the Fast and Furious gang, or Harry Potter, myself and others like investing in characters.
Agreed, that's why I'm looking forward to the new characters Shane is bringing to life.

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According to you, Alien was about the character, Predator was about the creature. Look at where that got each franchise.
Though I disagree with you about Predator not being about characters, I don't think the success/failure of its franchise all came down to that one aspect. There's budgets, writing, directing, competition, star power, etc. Plus it's debatable whether following Ripleys journey was even a good thing at all. I found Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection to leave the franchise in a terrible state.


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Tell me which one was more successful.
The one that introduced new characters, new storylines and new ideas?

« Last Edit: Apr 30, 2017, 08:45:46 PM by Stealth_Hunter »

BishopShouldGo
Apr 30, 2017, 09:48:17 PM
Reply #286 on: Apr 30, 2017, 09:48:17 PM
Q
I didn't say Predator was about the creature. I said in my post ACCORDING TO YOU.

Say what you will about A3 and A4 but they still brought in tons of money. More than P2 and P3.

And at least Alien had Aliens. Predator never had its Aliens.

Big mistake to not follow Dutch back in the early '90s.


Stealth_Hunter
Apr 30, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
Reply #287 on: Apr 30, 2017, 10:08:01 PM
Q
I didn't say Predator was about the creature. I said in my post ACCORDING TO YOU.

I actually didn't say that, that was Hudafuk. But you used that logic as a basis for your argument. If you don't believe in it, then you don't believe in the argument. So we would be in agreement there.

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Say what you will about A3 and A4 but they still brought in tons of money. More than P2 and P3.

Low points in the franchise can't be fixed by the extra money studio execs made. And I'm not arguing what should have happened in 1990, I'm arguing what should happen now. Arnold doesn't boost box office results now.

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And at least Alien had Aliens. Predator never had its Aliens.

Agreed. And now Alien has Prometheus and Covenant. Movies that didn't need Ripley and introduced new characters and new storylines. It is a good call.

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Big mistake to not follow Dutch back in the early '90s.
Agreed. But we can only move forward now.



Original Predator
Apr 30, 2017, 11:47:17 PM
Reply #289 on: Apr 30, 2017, 11:47:17 PM
Q
Nothing "dramatic"... about "the struggle" (lol, it does sound funny) just saying there is a reason there is a "catch" when it comes to fully embracing the current state and near future of Predator.  Black is not accountable to me or any particular fan...I'm not ignorant enough to think that.  I'm also fully aware of what Fox wants, which will drive what Black does...

It seems to be a theme tho, that if those in the "Dutch-Pred" camp, don't fully say "awesome!" and run around like a kid in a candy store to this new Pred movie, that they are somehow flawed or "wrong" etc...

Which is not the case.  Believe it or not I'm pro "Dutch-Pred" but will support Black, his movie, and root for the characters he's chosen.



Stealth_Hunter
May 01, 2017, 01:37:47 AM
Reply #290 on: May 01, 2017, 01:37:47 AM
Q
Nothing "dramatic"... about "the struggle" (lol, it does sound funny) just saying there is a reason there is a "catch" when it comes to fully embracing the current state and near future of Predator.
Ah I see what you mean. The feelings are justified but I don't think all actions (of some here) fueled by those feelings are. Comments like "Shane doesn't care what fans want," "Shame on Black," "cheerleading brings nothing but crap to the table," and "Predators flopped because Arnold wasn't in it" are just ignorant for reasons already explained.

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Black is not accountable to me or any particular fan...I'm not ignorant enough to think that.  I'm also fully aware of what Fox wants, which will drive what Black does...

You don't think Black will be making the film he wants to make?

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It seems to be a theme tho, that if those in the "Dutch-Pred" camp, don't fully say "awesome!" and run around like a kid in a candy store to this new Pred movie, that they are somehow flawed or "wrong" etc...

Arguments are thought out, explained, and discussed here. If you say people are "somehow" wrong it's probably because certain arguments make more sense than others. I don't think anyone is ever just deemed wrong and it's left at that. But if you're asking me to not call people's logic flawed, you'll have to be more specific on which arguments those are. I really don't see any "kids in candy stores" who think this will be a guaranteed hit, though. Just people who are optimistic and others who can't see a behind the scenes set photo without calling a kid "smug" and "pathetic."

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Believe it or not I'm pro "Dutch-Pred" but will support Black, his movie, and root for the characters he's chosen.

I'm a pro "Dutch-Pred" guy too in that I like Dutch and wish we had sequels with him. But what good does it do to dwell on what could have been in 1990 when it's 2017 right now?


Lieutenant Mike Harrigan
May 01, 2017, 03:42:24 AM
Reply #291 on: May 01, 2017, 03:42:24 AM
Q
All I'm saying is that Arnold turned down Pred 2 to do Total Recall.  This was a "Dutch" story to begin with.  Not a Predator story...Not what it's morphed into today. 

People to this day (as some posts on this board show) wanted a "Dutch" sequel or story line at least for another movie or two.  There is nothing "wrong" with that.  For as much as I wanted that too...I understand the reality of the situation now too much time has passed, the window is likely closed...to tell that story (unless you really wanted to dig deep and fill in the gaps, which Black and Fox don't seem to want to do...which is fine).  Which is the "struggle" for the fans that wanted the "Dutch story"...the reality is we still want it.  We love the Predator, the creature that he is...think he's awesome etc...the fans that want the Dutch-story, don't disregard the Predator...so the "struggle" is moving on...seeing this creature, this could have been story...this big missing peice in the franchise...never coming to be...and "us" having to jump on board with the direction this thing is now going. 

Keep in mind Alien had worn out the Ripley story...so those fans are allowed to say "okay let's do whatever now".  New Universe, new story, this that..."we're good on the Ripley stuff...we got that thing A-Z...we can move on and out..."

Dutch-Predator fans...never got to do that.  And it's left a sour taste in our mouth to this day.

And there is nothing "wrong" with that.
That is a post i can agree with. Glad you posted this. I've always wanted to see Dutch comeback and now is probably the last chance to get it before Arnold retires from acting.

Please get Arnold!


SpeedyMaxx
May 01, 2017, 03:49:33 AM
Reply #292 on: May 01, 2017, 03:49:33 AM
Q
We'd all love to see Dutch. Shane Black would love to use Dutch. But I don't fault Black for not writing the movie around Arnold who is what, in his 70s? This is a new start for the franchise and needs new leads. Arnold was supposed to have a plum role going forward should the film succeed. If he chooses to be a part of it I'll be thrilled and I know Shane Black would be as well.


The Saint
May 01, 2017, 08:25:14 AM
Reply #293 on: May 01, 2017, 08:25:14 AM
Q
We'd all love to see Dutch. Shane Black would love to use Dutch. But I don't fault Black for not writing the movie around Arnold who is what, in his 70s? This is a new start for the franchise and needs new leads. Arnold was supposed to have a plum role going forward should the film succeed. If he chooses to be a part of it I'll be thrilled and I know Shane Black would be as well.
Highly Seconded!!


overthere
May 01, 2017, 11:11:52 AM
Reply #294 on: May 01, 2017, 11:11:52 AM
Q
We'd all love to see Dutch. Shane Black would love to use Dutch. But I don't fault Black for not writing the movie around Arnold who is what, in his 70s? This is a new start for the franchise and needs new leads. Arnold was supposed to have a plum role going forward should the film succeed. If he chooses to be a part of it I'll be thrilled and I know Shane Black would be as well.

What kind of role was he supposed to have that gets bigger in sequels? Nothing but some sort of tactical adviser comes to mind.


Original Predator
May 01, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
Reply #295 on: May 01, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
Q
What kind of role was he supposed to have that gets bigger in sequels? Nothing but some sort of tactical adviser comes to mind.

That's what I was wondering once I found that out too.

He's not getting any younger.  So you'd think it would be a now or never thing.  Do the whole-lead-A-team bit now, and fill in the back story at the beginning of the movie.  But for Arnold to show up with 5 mins left...(he'd be 71 by the time the scene happens via the release next year), add 2-4 years for the next Pred movie that he's sposed to be in....and he's now 72-75...yikes.

If anything, have him in the beginning of the movie....to "retire" and transition his team to a new leader (Holbrook) vs. the original plan...(Have some sort of scene where him and his team are at some retirement "party" so to speak...after a mission...etc...then maybe he shows up in the last 5 mins of the movie....for a final death blow, or to "help" with the final "death blow.."... drop a last line...then be done).

« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 02:54:49 PM by Original Predator »

Russ
May 02, 2017, 09:10:56 AM
Reply #296 on: May 02, 2017, 09:10:56 AM
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There's loads of different ways to include him for sure: I always liked the "Ripley" idea where tells the team who are sent to deal with it that they have "no idea what you dealing with here."

But he was pretty unequivocal: he wants a big role or no role - which is a shame as you'd have thought he'd be up for a bit of fan-service. But I think we can all agree - as awesome as it would be - he doesn't need this movie. Indeed, he doesn't need any movie, only those that he chooses to do.


overthere
May 02, 2017, 09:37:26 PM
Reply #297 on: May 02, 2017, 09:37:26 PM
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I bet he's lying and deliberately having us believe he's not a part of this movie so the surprise is bigger.


Russ
May 03, 2017, 08:31:49 AM
Reply #298 on: May 03, 2017, 08:31:49 AM
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Hope springs eternal - that'd be ace if it pans out to be true!


Gigeresque
May 05, 2017, 05:10:26 PM
Reply #299 on: May 05, 2017, 05:10:26 PM
Q
We'd all love to see Dutch. Shane Black would love to use Dutch. But I don't fault Black for not writing the movie around Arnold who is what, in his 70s? This is a new start for the franchise and needs new leads. Arnold was supposed to have a plum role going forward should the film succeed. If he chooses to be a part of it I'll be thrilled and I know Shane Black would be as well.

What kind of role was he supposed to have that gets bigger in sequels? Nothing but some sort of tactical adviser comes to mind.
Yeah that would be cool. Someone who they call in to train the troops.


 

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