Saw it again for the second time, looking for faults...(heavy spoilers)

Started by Salt The Fries, May 20, 2017, 09:25:52 PM

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Saw it again for the second time, looking for faults...(heavy spoilers) (Read 1,187 times)

Salt The Fries

Salt The Fries

I just saw the movie again for the second time. My first time was 8 days ago. The movie held up superbly and didn't lose any of its thrills or dark gothic grandeur. Most importantly, however, I was looking very hard for supposed faults. I will address them:

No helmets - it was telegraphed in the film: "no toxins", "oxygen 19,5%, Nitrogen 79,5%" as they were descending the lander, not counting what Ricks had already said before based on what there was in his computer...maybe it was communicated for too short of a period of time and unceremoniously but it was there...clearly the focus on masturbating to hard-science for too long wasn't the focus of this film

for all the talk I've heard how in previous films there was strict emphasis on protocols and so on...in this film there weren't forgotten either...all the time it was being brought up things like "what if we are all infected with it?", "how can we bo so sure", or Feris that specifically didn't want to risk contaminating the rest, or even Oram saying about safety protocols and closing the lander doors...Tennessee numerous times wanted to "f**k protocols" and he mentioned about quarantine and stuff as well, plus the action of another pilot was required in order to override the Mother when they wanted to approach the remaining crew from a closer distance

Some people moaned how the crew of the Covenant is disinterested in dead Engineers around the city but from the way it was directed, they clearly rushed after David who was coming through all sorts of cryptic holes and other entrances that were sealing off after him

Some people bitched how the crew acted like total amateurs when Tom started "acting out" but from the mood of the film and the way it was directed, it was evident, everything's going to shit and you have to ditch the established protocols and just run for your life

Contrary to the criticism the Covenant craw wasn't shooting in all directions like unconvicing amateurs from Z-class film like Reb Brown...actually the fight in the wheat was convincing, and they were always close to aiming at the target

It is evident that David either must have gotten a hold of the information regarding the cryobay either from ...by the way the whole row of fetuses in petridishes was removed comparing to the scene at the beginning, David might have gotten them from there to insert those facehugger embryos

it wasn't evident that David would kill Walter, as the scene was cut as Walter was actually trying to hit a firm swing with a rock for a fraction of second

the way it was directed and from the angle it was shown in the film it was impossible for Daniels to make out that it is not Walter! and from that angle she didn't see any mark after the nail

self-healing capacities of Walter...it is not evident in the film, full stop! do you guys refer to that short shot of him after being incapacitated? it might be a special way of them rebooting themselves...from the way it is directed in no way it's possible for Daniels to realize that this is not Walter...(plus even if you're gonna start arguing really really hard, she might have not known about this because she had not seen Walter in such situations before)

speaking of Walter, I was paying meticulous attention to his voice after the fight...and David clearly used Wisconsin accent of Walter..sometimes it was slightly breaking but very slightly

Oram's character's ride through the film was pretty much sinusoidal, he was falling apart and putting himself together constantly...the way his interaction with David went, was convincing to me...of course the final fragment of him approaching you-know-what was maybe tad tad too much...but otherwise everything was perfectly along the lines of his character...and by the way I think this is, hands down, the very best "human" performance in this film...

the fight between Walter and David wasn't kung-fu-ish to me...

and yeah, the facehugger who got Lope had his penis thingy visible

last but not least, I think this sentence:



conveys the essence of experiencing films

Anyway, the film held up superbly, like I said, and I definitely would rank it 3rd best in the series, without a single shadow of doubt and this is not the "new aura of freshness" effect. I think definitely some things were sacrificed or truncated here for the greater good and the balancing act is the hardest possible job to do when cutting a movie, but I believe Scott actually made all the right choices here...and no, cabin at the lake scene would'nt have added anything, the film was already very heavy on emotions when it had to be this way, anyway...

I'd be more than happy to tackle any kind of polemic from you, guys.

Gash

I think the big clue regarding whether or not the facehugger managed to impregnate Lope, is seen when it's thrown into the corner and immediately curls up and dies. A clear suggestion that it's achieved it's purpose.

Salt The Fries

Quote from: Gash on May 20, 2017, 09:49:46 PM
I think the big clue regarding whether or not the facehugger managed to impregnate Lope, is seen when it's thrown into the corner and immediately curls up and dies. A clear suggestion that it's achieved it's purpose.

That's why us guys after achieving our purpose have something that French call "la petite mort" (little death) ;)

Gash

Yes, well I was struggling to find a polite way to put it, but it has a happy ending -  in massage terms.

prototypeXIII

I think people are being over critical with the execution of this movie, the execution was fine.  The speed towards the end could have been speed down a little bit so we could have enjoyed "the beast" more, but that's my only gripe.

The only thing the movie suffers from is a little force awakens syndrome; they could have spent more effort being original than trying to throw homages at people the entire time.

That being said, id rate this movie a solid 3rd in the franchise.

As an independent syfy movie, i don't think we've really had anything hit the theaters in a long time that competes with covenant, which makes this a much more solid movie in that aspect alone.

Salt The Fries

I think by not putting the most focus on Alien and Alien-like elements this film had an opportunity to deliver something compelling, something of its own, even if it was communicated by the means of artistic contrasts and atmosphere.

prototypeXIII

Quote from: Salt The Fries on May 20, 2017, 10:01:43 PM
I think by not putting the most focus on Alien and Alien-like elements this film had an opportunity to deliver something compelling, something of its own, even if it was communicated by the means of artistic contrasts and atmosphere.

Agreed, there are a ton of great themes and undertones in this movie, which will probably take people a while to digest them all.  This movie has so much context underneath the skin, there is more to think about than Prometheus.  I really enjoy movies that make you think, so long as they don't leave an open ended context like Prometheus.  I enjoy how covenant narrowed the scope more in this prequel.

David;s character is so rich, in context; i like how he has perverted creation into a weapon of death; and death into a perversion of life.  The black goo was a weapon of hatred and anything that is spawned from only brings death in the form of life.

Im not sure if ridley / the scriptors had planned all the subtly, but it works out fantastically.

bioweapon

Thanks for this kind of second hand review

I tend to find it equal if not more special than ALIENS, because of the 2001 approach at begining, not only in terms of visuals and technology, but also now with concepts like evolution and evolved species.

The only thing that bothers me is the pace edition... specially at the last 30 mins. I think it rest the potential horror scenes.
What do you feel about it?

Also, I have a doubt about this:

Quote from: Salt The Fries on May 20, 2017, 09:25:52 PM

I think definitely some things were sacrificed or truncated here for the greater good and the balancing act is the hardest possible job to do when cutting a movie, but I believe Scott actually made all the right choices here...and no, cabin at the lake scene would'nt have added anything, the film was already very heavy on emotions when it had to be this way, anyway...


What do you mean with cabin at the lake scene?

Thanks again

Salt The Fries

Quote from: bioweapon on May 21, 2017, 06:49:38 PM
Thanks for this kind of second hand review

I tend to find it equal if not more special than ALIENS, because of the 2001 approach at begining, not only in terms of visuals and technology, but also now with concepts like evolution and evolved species.

The only thing that bothers me is the pace edition... specially at the last 30 mins. I think it rest the potential horror scenes.
What do you feel about it?

Also, I have a doubt about this:

Quote from: Salt The Fries on May 20, 2017, 09:25:52 PM

I think definitely some things were sacrificed or truncated here for the greater good and the balancing act is the hardest possible job to do when cutting a movie, but I believe Scott actually made all the right choices here...and no, cabin at the lake scene would'nt have added anything, the film was already very heavy on emotions when it had to be this way, anyway...


What do you mean with cabin at the lake scene?

Thanks again


There was a deleted scene involving James Franco in yet another flashback. Details elude me now. By the way is that Isabelle Adjani from Possession in your signature? I really love that film, I think it's a masterpiece :)

bioweapon

ok thanks. But the edition pace? how do you feel it?

Yes is Possession  8)

Salt The Fries

Quote from: bioweapon on May 21, 2017, 07:00:06 PM
ok thanks. But the edition pace? how do you feel it?

Yes is Possession  8)
Well, in a way I can see why some people may feel it's rushed. But I think it had to be in order for David/Walter switch to be a more misleading in the long run and fool us longer or at least try to. Sure, Lope's demise was hardly felt, and Upworth & Ricks were killed in a slasher fashion and maybe there wasn't enough breathing space in order for the last Xeno confrontation to be felt, but I think the film had superb pacing and sacrificed certain aspects for the greater good. Now compare its pacing to Resurrection :/

bioweapon


Quote
David;s character is so rich, in context; i like how he has perverted creation into a weapon of death; and death into a perversion of life.  The black goo was a weapon of hatred and anything that is spawned from only brings death in the form of life.

Im not sure if ridley / the scriptors had planned all the subtly, but it works out fantastically.

I like to think there are some planned, specially the homages. For me David is Giger in this movie, And the fate of Shaw reminds me the Newt one in A3. Oram has relation to Kane. and so on.

By the way your signature has something to do with David Lynch ? I canĀ“t recall that scene.

Rudiger

Quote from: Salt The Fries on May 20, 2017, 09:25:52 PM
I just saw the movie again for the second time. My first time was 8 days ago. The movie held up superbly and didn't lose any of its thrills or dark gothic grandeur. Most importantly, however, I was looking very hard for supposed faults. I will address them:

No helmets - it was telegraphed in the film: "no toxins", "oxygen 19,5%, Nitrogen 79,5%" as they were descending the lander, not counting what Ricks had already said before based on what there was in his computer...maybe it was communicated for too short of a period of time and unceremoniously but it was there...clearly the focus on masturbating to hard-science for too long wasn't the focus of this film

for all the talk I've heard how in previous films there was strict emphasis on protocols and so on...in this film there weren't forgotten either...all the time it was being brought up things like "what if we are all infected with it?", "how can we bo so sure", or Feris that specifically didn't want to risk contaminating the rest, or even Oram saying about safety protocols and closing the lander doors...Tennessee numerous times wanted to "f**k protocols" and he mentioned about quarantine and stuff as well, plus the action of another pilot was required in order to override the Mother when they wanted to approach the remaining crew from a closer distance

Some people moaned how the crew of the Covenant is disinterested in dead Engineers around the city but from the way it was directed, they clearly rushed after David who was coming through all sorts of cryptic holes and other entrances that were sealing off after him

Some people bitched how the crew acted like total amateurs when Tom started "acting out" but from the mood of the film and the way it was directed, it was evident, everything's going to shit and you have to ditch the established protocols and just run for your life

Contrary to the criticism the Covenant craw wasn't shooting in all directions like unconvicing amateurs from Z-class film like Reb Brown...actually the fight in the wheat was convincing, and they were always close to aiming at the target

It is evident that David either must have gotten a hold of the information regarding the cryobay either from ...by the way the whole row of fetuses in petridishes was removed comparing to the scene at the beginning, David might have gotten them from there to insert those facehugger embryos

it wasn't evident that David would kill Walter, as the scene was cut as Walter was actually trying to hit a firm swing with a rock for a fraction of second

the way it was directed and from the angle it was shown in the film it was impossible for Daniels to make out that it is not Walter! and from that angle she didn't see any mark after the nail

self-healing capacities of Walter...it is not evident in the film, full stop! do you guys refer to that short shot of him after being incapacitated? it might be a special way of them rebooting themselves...from the way it is directed in no way it's possible for Daniels to realize that this is not Walter...(plus even if you're gonna start arguing really really hard, she might have not known about this because she had not seen Walter in such situations before)

speaking of Walter, I was paying meticulous attention to his voice after the fight...and David clearly used Wisconsin accent of Walter..sometimes it was slightly breaking but very slightly

Oram's character's ride through the film was pretty much sinusoidal, he was falling apart and putting himself together constantly...the way his interaction with David went, was convincing to me...of course the final fragment of him approaching you-know-what was maybe tad tad too much...but otherwise everything was perfectly along the lines of his character...and by the way I think this is, hands down, the very best "human" performance in this film...

the fight between Walter and David wasn't kung-fu-ish to me...

and yeah, the facehugger who got Lope had his penis thingy visible

last but not least, I think this sentence:

http://68.media.tumblr.com/c0b83fc8af67d3642b653053fa4a83b4/tumblr_inline_mzx4gnvSEp1qfqdmq.jpg

conveys the essence of experiencing films

Anyway, the film held up superbly, like I said, and I definitely would rank it 3rd best in the series, without a single shadow of doubt and this is not the "new aura of freshness" effect. I think definitely some things were sacrificed or truncated here for the greater good and the balancing act is the hardest possible job to do when cutting a movie, but I believe Scott actually made all the right choices here...and no, cabin at the lake scene would'nt have added anything, the film was already very heavy on emotions when it had to be this way, anyway...

I'd be more than happy to tackle any kind of polemic from you, guys.

Happy that you like the film, but it's still a steaming pile of crap.

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