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Author Topic: Newts or Shaw's death?  (Read 2038 times)

Paranoid Android
Oct 28, 2017, 04:03:59 PM
Reply #30 on: Oct 28, 2017, 04:03:59 PM
Q
Newts death is more effective because we get that legitimate autopsy scene from it.  The brutality of that scene alone shows more horror than Ridely Scott was able to generate in the entire scope of Alien Covenant.
Is it impossible to feature an autopsy scene of a character that died during the natural progression of the story? Why was it necessary to kill her off-screen in order to have an autopsy scene? Wouldn't that autopsy scene have been even more horrific had Newt died due to legitimate reasons earlier on?


fiveways
Nov 01, 2017, 12:30:27 PM
Reply #31 on: Nov 01, 2017, 12:30:27 PM
Q
Both are examples of terrible writing and poor franchise direction.


David Weyland
Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
Reply #32 on: Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2017, 08:53:56 PM by David Weyland »

Rudiger
Nov 02, 2017, 11:52:07 AM
Reply #33 on: Nov 02, 2017, 11:52:07 AM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

I imagine she would have been under contract to proceed.

Moreover, I imagine the prospect of "Shaw & David meet the Engineers" would have been a tough sell. Only David speaks their language, which itself would have needed to be subtitled. That just ain't gonna fly.


Jonesy1974
Nov 02, 2017, 02:31:11 PM
Reply #34 on: Nov 02, 2017, 02:31:11 PM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

I imagine she would have been under contract to proceed.

Moreover, I imagine the prospect of "Shaw & David meet the Engineers" would have been a tough sell. Only David speaks their language, which itself would have needed to be subtitled. That just ain't gonna fly.

Agreed. No studio would risk a film like that.


0321recon
Nov 02, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
Reply #35 on: Nov 02, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.

They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.   

« Last Edit: Nov 02, 2017, 02:52:25 PM by 0321recon »

Space7Horror
Nov 03, 2017, 12:27:07 AM
Reply #36 on: Nov 03, 2017, 12:27:07 AM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.

They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.

I would be totally fine if they did this.  All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends.  This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.


Scorpio
Nov 03, 2017, 01:21:28 AM
Reply #37 on: Nov 03, 2017, 01:21:28 AM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....

The fact she was in The Crossing means it wasn't all about the money.  She couldn't have been paid much for that brief appearance.

More likely is, she just isn't a box office draw.  When Prometheus came out, she was still a newcomer, had been in a few big movies and had won critical notice for Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.  But now she's a has been in hollywood.  That's just how they work unfortunately.


0321recon
Nov 03, 2017, 01:58:34 AM
Reply #38 on: Nov 03, 2017, 01:58:34 AM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.

They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.

I would be totally fine if they did this.  All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends.  This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.

Exactly. I'm shocked Fox didn't go for this route. Seems they didn't realize the backlash they would have from those who liked Shaw.

Seeing David's lab of horrors we see a dissected Engineer. You could make a story of Shaw and this engineer.

We could begin with the entire 12 minutes crossing sequence of David and Shaw in the ship until she goes into hypersleep. Then, David wakes her eight to nine years after their initial arrival. David tells her the world was already wiped out. Shaw feels something is not right when she notices the silo open, and the entire payload missing. She goes to explore the planet, trying to find what happened.

In the forest, she comes across three survivors. They fear her, though shows she's not going to harm them. They ask why did she nuke their planet, she's shocked by the allegations. Shaw tells them she was only seeking answers to her questions found in LV-223. Here, the engineers reveal that her companion destroyed the planet several years back. With a small device they show her the bombing. She's horrified by this.  While this transpires two of the engineers get infected by the spores.

Fearing David, she stays with them. However, David has being following her from afar. They tell her of a plan to kill David,  lift the shields on the planet, and try to escape. When, suddenly two of the engineers get severely sick. David appears out of no where. Shaw is horrified by him and what's occurring to the engineers. David calmly tells her what's going to occur when two neos are born. David prevents the neo from attacking her and the engineer. He gives her the choice to replenish the planet and become his eve? she spits at him. David sicks the neos on her and the engineer. Both run for dear life rushing across the forest towards the underground base were the ships are. The neos attack them, one of them killing the engineer. Shaw is about to be killed by when David stops the neo, and slams her to the ground. He injects her with a sedative mixed with the pathogen. She quietly moans as her head begins to mutate, he carries her back to the temple.

« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 02:27:40 AM by 0321recon »

Space7Horror
Nov 03, 2017, 09:01:59 PM
Reply #39 on: Nov 03, 2017, 09:01:59 PM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.

They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.

I would be totally fine if they did this.  All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends.  This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.

Exactly. I'm shocked Fox didn't go for this route. Seems they didn't realize the backlash they would have from those who liked Shaw.

Seeing David's lab of horrors we see a dissected Engineer. You could make a story of Shaw and this engineer.

We could begin with the entire 12 minutes crossing sequence of David and Shaw in the ship until she goes into hypersleep. Then, David wakes her eight to nine years after their initial arrival. David tells her the world was already wiped out. Shaw feels something is not right when she notices the silo open, and the entire payload missing. She goes to explore the planet, trying to find what happened.

In the forest, she comes across three survivors. They fear her, though shows she's not going to harm them. They ask why did she nuke their planet, she's shocked by the allegations. Shaw tells them she was only seeking answers to her questions found in LV-223. Here, the engineers reveal that her companion destroyed the planet several years back. With a small device they show her the bombing. She's horrified by this.  While this transpires two of the engineers get infected by the spores.

Fearing David, she stays with them. However, David has being following her from afar. They tell her of a plan to kill David,  lift the shields on the planet, and try to escape. When, suddenly two of the engineers get severely sick. David appears out of no where. Shaw is horrified by him and what's occurring to the engineers. David calmly tells her what's going to occur when two neos are born. David prevents the neo from attacking her and the engineer. He gives her the choice to replenish the planet and become his eve? she spits at him. David sicks the neos on her and the engineer. Both run for dear life rushing across the forest towards the underground base were the ships are. The neos attack them, one of them killing the engineer. Shaw is about to be killed by when David stops the neo, and slams her to the ground. He injects her with a sedative mixed with the pathogen. She quietly moans as her head begins to mutate, he carries her back to the temple.

This easily work as a horror as well, the complete and utter fear Shaw would feel as she explores the now decimated planet of her creators.  They really could have played on her emotions through the short while answering many lingering questions and giving us, the audience a satisfying end to Shaw's story.  And it would be a cool thing to see surviving engineers which would show just hat David was hunting them down and killing them for experiments.  It would really fit into the poster for the movie with the engineers being wiped out by aliens.

« Last Edit: Nov 04, 2017, 01:07:54 PM by Space7Horror »

Rudiger
Nov 03, 2017, 09:30:58 PM
Reply #40 on: Nov 03, 2017, 09:30:58 PM
Q
And how many millions would this 30 minute short cost?

Proper storytelling gets done in the cinema, not on youtube or as an extra.



0321recon
Nov 04, 2017, 03:29:36 AM
Reply #42 on: Nov 04, 2017, 03:29:36 AM
Q
I think it’s highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it’s just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn’t/didn’t want to/wasn’t happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it’s damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there’s more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it’s not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen

Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.

They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.

I would be totally fine if they did this.  All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends.  This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.

Exactly. I'm shocked Fox didn't go for this route. Seems they didn't realize the backlash they would have from those who liked Shaw.

Seeing David's lab of horrors we see a dissected Engineer. You could make a story of Shaw and this engineer.

We could begin with the entire 12 minutes crossing sequence of David and Shaw in the ship until she goes into hypersleep. Then, David wakes her eight to nine years after their initial arrival. David tells her the world was already wiped out. Shaw feels something is not right when she notices the silo open, and the entire payload missing. She goes to explore the planet, trying to find what happened.

In the forest, she comes across three survivors. They fear her, though shows she's not going to harm them. They ask why did she nuke their planet, she's shocked by the allegations. Shaw tells them she was only seeking answers to her questions found in LV-223. Here, the engineers reveal that her companion destroyed the planet several years back. With a small device they show her the bombing. She's horrified by this.  While this transpires two of the engineers get infected by the spores.

Fearing David, she stays with them. However, David has being following her from afar. They tell her of a plan to kill David,  lift the shields on the planet, and try to escape. When, suddenly two of the engineers get severely sick. David appears out of no where. Shaw is horrified by him and what's occurring to the engineers. David calmly tells her what's going to occur when two neos are born. David prevents the neo from attacking her and the engineer. He gives her the choice to replenish the planet and become his eve? she spits at him. David sicks the neos on her and the engineer. Both run for dear life rushing across the forest towards the underground base were the ships are. The neos attack them, one of them killing the engineer. Shaw is about to be killed by when David stops the neo, and slams her to the ground. He injects her with a sedative mixed with the pathogen. She quietly moans as her head begins to mutate, he carries her back to the temple.

This easily work as a horror as well, the complete and utter fear Shaw would feel as she explores the now ddescimatez planet of her creators.  They really could have played on her emotions through the short while answering many lingering questions and giving us, the audience a satisfying end to Shaw's story.  And it would be a cool thing to see surviving engineers which would show just hat David was hunting them down and killing them for experiments.  It would really fit into the poster for the movie with the engineers being wiped out by aliens.

Exactly. Killing two birds with one stone. We show how demented David has become in hunting the surviving engineers for his diabolic experiments and in the same time demonstrating David's true intentions towards Shaw. In the point of view of Shaw, she gets the answers that she was seeking at the cost of her and the engineers lives.

And how many millions would this 30 minute short cost?

Proper storytelling gets done in the cinema, not on youtube or as an extra.


I agree that proper storytelling belongs in the cinema, however seeing how the franchise finds itself at the moment, its the next best thing to do since a lot of the questions asked in Prometheus were left hanging.

As for the cost of the short, having gone to film school it could be made in the cheap if they shot the majority of this in a large forest to save the cost of the sets. For the sets themselves, just build small sections of juggernaut such as hyper-sleep chamber, the hallway and the silo (shot these sequences with a mediums or close ups) For the engineers since its going to be only three, we could put some money on their prosthetics to match them with what we saw in Prometheus. Finally, try to use man in a suit for the two neos. Saving whatever money is left for the device showing the bombing sequence.

They could shot this as third unit while Awakening is being filmed. 


« Last Edit: Nov 04, 2017, 03:44:46 AM by 0321recon »

OpenMaw
Nov 30, 2017, 03:11:33 AM
Reply #43 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:11:33 AM
Q
The problem with Shaw's death is the problem with the entire Prometheus run thus far. The entire series has been ill conceived. The creative objectives therein have been all over the map. There is no real sense of cohesion in the characters or the story. We go here, do this, go here, do that. Character's have no distinct motivation. The only reason David rises above that is because he's at least somewhat more focused, has more character going on, and he's being played brilliantly by Fassbender.


I hate the death of Newt and Hicks, and I hated it even without having seen Aliens. However, however, I will say this. I think it has more artistic and creative merit and actually resonates in a big way inside of Alien 3. It moves and affects Ripley in a bigger way than Shaw's death does in Covenant.


SM
Nov 30, 2017, 03:50:40 AM
Reply #44 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:50:40 AM
Q
The motivations of Shaw, Holloway, Vickers and Janek are pretty distinctive.


 

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