Why are the prequel Androids more superior?

Started by Berend, Oct 16, 2017, 06:08:36 AM

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Why are the prequel Androids more superior? (Read 1,593 times)

Berend


Rewatching Alien and Aliens lately it becomes somewhat jarring to see Ash and Bishop compared to the David and Weyland models.

We've seen David and Walter go at each other Terminator style, heck I even think they could give the ol' T-800 models a run for their money.

They regenerate small punctures made in their skin ect.

and yet Ash doesn't come closer than ragdolling Ripley around, and gets pummled easily by Lambert and Parker.

and even Bishop the supossed latest model continuity-wise stab himself during the knife scene and it didn't heal.
Did Ridley ever elaborate on that?

SM

The A2s were always a bit twitchy.

And Bishops hand must've stopped bleeding at some point.

Paranoid Android

Because the original films strived for realism, while the new ones strive for spectacle schlock. The synthetics in Alien and Aliens were simply a bit stronger and could take more punishment compared to a human. In the prequels, apparently, Weyland Corp thought it was a good idea to program their science oriented synthetics to do kung fu and to drug smuggle. They also thought that since those science oriented synthetics are going to be heavily involved in combat, they would need Wolverine's regenerative capabilities.

Deadmeat

Deadmeat

#3
Quote from: Berend on Oct 16, 2017, 06:08:36 AM
They regenerate small punctures made in their skin ect.

and yet Ash doesn't come closer than ragdolling Ripley around, and gets pummled easily by Lambert and Parker.

and even Bishop the supossed latest model continuity-wise stab himself during the knife scene and it didn't heal.
Did Ridley ever elaborate on that?

Quote from: Paranoid Android on Oct 16, 2017, 08:30:15 AM
They also thought that since those science oriented synthetics are going to be heavily involved in combat, they would need Wolverine's regenerative capabilities.

The prequel androids don't mysteriously heal themselves out of nowhere or have unexplained regenerative abilities - they repair themselves with specialized instruments and biomechanical liquids/adhesives to patch up open wounds (seen in A:C when Walter repairs his wounds after they evacuate Paradise), which is something I assume Bishop did off-screen as well, so it's more than likely Ash and Bishop had access to + were capable of conducting the same level of maintenance themselves. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there, so it was in fact a good thing Ridley showed us how androids repair themselves in A:C.

The difference we see is that the damage inflicted to Ash and Bishop in the movies are too extensive to be patched up, and would require rebuilding entire body parts, which is something you cannot do if you're not in a designated facility, and even then it would take a very long time, too much to believably fit in a movie even if they tried (remember that even Walter can't regrow an arm, let alone Bishop regrowing half his body).

Quote from: SM on Oct 16, 2017, 06:15:33 AM
The A2s were always a bit twitchy.

This. The original movies cleverly imply that older models were more problematic and prone to aggression against humans, which goes against Asimov's laws of robotics, so logically this has been addressed and fixed by the Weyland company. We already see a considerable difference between David and Walter in their willingness to harm humans/allow them to be harmed, which shows that the company indeed improved this aspect. Later models, including Ash and Bishop, were most likely equipped with more efficient combat/aggression inhibitors (think of it as the prefrontal cortex in our own brains) that control how they both perceive and react to hostile behavior from others.

Obviously anything can malfunction, so to answer your concern on why Ash was so easily beaten up by Parker - I hypothesize that Ash's combat inhibitor malfunctioned for an unknown reason (although I suspect it might be due to the conflicting nature of his mission - allowing his human crew to be harmed/killed, which could have seriously messed with his programming and behavioral processes), however - it didn't shut down completely, maintaining at least some level of control over him. So while he was able to fight/attempt to murder someone himself, he still couldn't do it as efficiently as if he might have had with no restraints on his actions at all.

To recap - Ash was constantly held back by his own programming, which was probably haywire at that point, making attack/defense functions faulty and practically useless.

Highland

I draw the line on these ones. I'm happy to just play the timeline card. It's square pegs in round holes and you're asking the director to box himself in for no good reason.

Paranoid Android

But the director made the films, and he made them into prequels. He deliberately asked to box himself in.

BishopShouldGo

Just because 2017 Mercedes vehicles are out there doesn't mean people still aren't driving 1988 Fords.

Maybe the budget for those missions could only afford an Ash or a Bishop. Or maybe the company has a deal to only work with one type of android. Who knows.

It's pointless to retrofit these ideas anyway, Ridley didn't know he'd do prequels decades later!

SM

Bishop was "top of the line".

Highland

Quote from: Paranoid Android on Oct 16, 2017, 09:02:51 AM
But the director made the films, and he made them into prequels. He deliberately asked to box himself in.

There's already a difference between all the Androids as it is. Nothing really chaps my ass off, not like 30 second impregnation or ripping off facehuggers with Pen knifes.

skhellter

skhellter

#9
30 second impregnation....
hey.. some guys dont last long.

Let's not be too harsh on that lil facehugger.
He did his job. Way faster than anyone had done before or since.


Best facehugger in the franchise, tbh.

TOP LAD.


Highland

He needs a name then if we are to update the wiki for accuracy sake.

I vote Frankie Fast Fingers.

PsyKore

Weren't the Ash and Bishop androids made by Hyperdyne or something? Whereas Walter and David are Weyland's model. It doesn't seem like an issue if the Weyland ones had more bells and whistles though.

CainsSon

In sequence, each film makes some reference to the idea that the androids are being 'evolved' to make us more and more comfortable with their behavior. Its always been my impression that the idea is we started out trying to make them as human as possible but then, because of the behavior we see from the earlier models through ALIEN, by the time we get to ALIENS (57 years later) we've made improvements on them, by 'evolving' them to be more subservient and obedient, with less free will.

I dont wanna argue about it's merits but this idea of apartheid towards the Androids from humans is a major aspect of the backstory. I think Prometheus and then A:R especially directly address this.  In Prometheus, we are meant to ask ourselves why we find it evil for our creators to want to 'evolve' us, by treating us the same way we would treat our own creations if we were unhappy with them.
Of course, this is basically the same concept in Blade Runner.

I personally think RS may be interested in the idea of the androids wanting to destroy us for wanting to ruin them/neuter them. I'm wondering if this wouldn't have been the basis for this 'War of the Worlds' scenario RS has mentioned. David trying to get the Androids to revolt and creating the Xenos to do the work for them.

It kinda makes sense in my mind that perhaps this scenario results in Ash being programmed to 'go get the Aliens' on LV426. But who knows. Im good with any continuation that doesn't involve David being in the Pilot's chair on LV426.

SM

There doesn't seem to be any 'apartheid' to Ash or Bishop.  Ripley thought Ash was a bit off, but no one realised he was a robot.  And Bishop was a part of the marine platoon; he wasn't viewed as 'other' (despite the knife trick outing him as such).

Call was viewed differently and with good reason.  I've always viewed the lower quality voice synthesizer on Father as further evidence of enmity towards AI at that point in time.

Quote from: PsyKore on Oct 17, 2017, 05:43:23 AM
Weren't the Ash and Bishop androids made by Hyperdyne or something? Whereas Walter and David are Weyland's model. It doesn't seem like an issue if the Weyland ones had more bells and whistles though.

Ash was Hyperdyne.  Bishop - the film doesn't say.

BishopShouldGo

3...2...1, thank youuuuu

*cue alien with smoke coming out of its mouth*

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