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Author Topic: This is why Prometheus is a great Sci-Fi film  (Read 7313 times)

The_Foxcatcher
Mar 02, 2017, 11:09:50 AM
Topic on: Mar 02, 2017, 11:09:50 AM
Q
Prometheus is one of the greatest Sci-Fi movie because primarily its a Concept-Rich movie. It expanded the Alien universe & explored many ideas on several scales and delivered an intriguing adventure drama more than a thriller/horror action. Prometheus was full of these alluring things:

A. The Visuals and the virtual experience; as Ridley Scott said "the cast could have slept and effectively "lived" on the Prometheus interior set during initial filming, this didn't happen due to health and safety precautions.", we all know the ship interiors and visuals of the movie were mesmerizing. This alone let the audience right into the crews' shoes. Ofcourse 'Alien' also gave a similar experience.

B. David. Unlike a unidimensional character, Scott carved a complex robot with vibrant emotions & actions. From bearing curiosity of child to nobility towards his master to cunningness towards someone who he dislikes. Fassbender pulled it off such a way that with his limited moves of facial expressions, one can readily relate to his emotions.

C. Imaginative futurist concepts which we never seen before: Prometheus spaceship, Lifeboat, Weyland's hologram recording, the Medpod, Pup scanners, Escape pods, Rovers etc. all of them beautifully designed. All of these took the audience even closer to the experience and adventure.

D. Layered characters & story. From Vickers' greed of taking over the company, her disdain from not being a wishful daughter, David & Vickers' sibling rivalry to Shaw and Holloway's different outlook on faith and god etc. All of this in an alien movie! Hats off to Scott!
The events of the story were consequences from the clash of different agendas of the characters. Vickers didn't recruit the best of the scientists (except a great Pilot, the decision which ultimately backfired at the end to her own self) because she wasn't wholeheartedly supporting her father's mission, a demanding Weyland, Fifield who was only there for money and was more of a puppet of Vickers and David who deviced his own rules to explore the place for his curiosity as well as reaching Weyland's goal.

You may term it whatever you want, may be a projection of human hubris or neo-norisque cynical archetypes, Prometheus had more memorable & unique characters than any other Alien movies.

E. Space Jockey & the Juggernaut. None of the sequels ever tried to explore the Space jockey world. All they did was deal with Xenomorphs and Xenomorphs only.

We all know that the scene with David exploring the hologram of engineer's navigation system itself is one wonderful moment of the movie. This is were we should realize why Scott sweep away the Xenos from the script and filled it with such alluring moments with only subtle reference to Alien like the Hammerpede, a very well designed off-wordly creature - just a simple worm mutated with Xeno DNA.

F. The Med-pod scene. Nuff said!

G. Rolling spaceship scene

H. The whole biological lifecycle madness resulting from the dangerous black goo mutant accelerant. David spiking Holloway --> Holloway's sperm mutated ---> Having sex with Shaw ----> Shaw conceiving a tribolite ---> Engineer getting facehugged ----> Chestburst of a deacon, an end with the iconic reference to Alien.

It also expands Alien universe to many consequences & possibilities pushing the overplayed classical Xenomorph as just one of the many diversions.

I. The mysteries and questions to discuss & ponder upon. The movie & its ambiguity has triggered lot of discussions which even today people engage in.

Unlike 2001: A Space Odyssey which ends with a big answer (next step of human evolution), Prometheus unapologetically ends with a big question.

People who dislike it are labelling it as an 'incoherent mess' just because they didn't get answers or are the ones who also happen to not have paid attention to so many things (for instance, Vickers and Shaw turning a sharp 90 degree turn at one moment and not just running in straight line) or are downright stupid (such as expecting the 2094 medicines to today's standards)

J. Finally, the movie's ability to render better repeat-viewing experience.


SiL
Mar 02, 2017, 11:14:59 AM
Reply #1 on: Mar 02, 2017, 11:14:59 AM
Q
You're seven posts in and you've already decided that the best course of action is to be condescending to anyone who disagrees with you. Not a great start.

The film is full of poorly sketched characters, terribly dodgy editing -- especially at the end -- and rather than address its "big question" in any meaningful way, it diverts to spend what precious little running time is left to a monster in a closet ending. Ending on a Big Question is fine. Leaving a mystery is fine. But Prometheus doesn't know what to do with its Big Question, so it doesn't do anything. It raises it, then immediately does what it can to avoid having to address it.

2001 gives a vague, ambiguous, head-scratching Big Answer that leaves you with genuine food for thought. It follows through on its central question, but resolves it in a way that leaves you feeling like there's so much more out there.

Prometheus just shouts its Big Question at you halfway through the film, then waves its hands in front of your face until it's time for the credits to roll. It's not satisfying, intelligent, or particularly well executed. It's more akin to The Andromeda Strain, which abruptly abandons the threat of the alien organism in the last act for the threat of the nuclear countdown.


The_Foxcatcher
Mar 02, 2017, 11:28:19 AM
Reply #2 on: Mar 02, 2017, 11:28:19 AM
Q
Quote
But Prometheus doesn't know what to do with its Big Question, so it doesn't do anything.

It raises a big question and lets the audience to discuss, ponder upon and form their own interpretation. I have my own interpretation.

And for guys like you, wait for Alien: Covenant, brother! It may give insights to the answers to that big question and make it more apparent, if not A:C then the sequels to A:C will


Quote
It raises it, then immediately does what it can to avoid having to address it.

How can you say that it diverts to the chest bursting scene to cut away from answering the question. The movie ended when we see Shaw & David taking off in the Juggernaut with Shaw's last words 'And I am still searching!'.

The chest burst scene was an Epilogue. Just to tie in with Alien universe completely.

Quote
2001 gives a vague, ambiguous, head-scratching Big Answer that leaves you with genuine food for thought. It follows through on its central question, but resolves it in a way that leaves you feeling like there's so much more out there.

2001 was a bright & happy ending. Prometheus had a dark ending. 2001 ended with a big answer. Prometheus ended with a big question. Both movies leaves you with lot of food for thought.



 








SiL
Mar 02, 2017, 11:42:37 AM
Reply #3 on: Mar 02, 2017, 11:42:37 AM
Q
And for guys like you, wait for Alien: Covenant, brother! It may give insights to the answers to that big question and make it more apparent, if not A:C then the sequels to A:C will
I'm fine with open-ended questions. I'm not fine with Prometheus' handling of this. Why must you resort to talking down to others?

Quote
How can you say that it diverts to the chest bursting scene to cut away from answering the question.
I couldn't -- and didn't. They have the chance to ask the question to the Engineer, but instead of an answer he Hulks out on them. That's them diverting from the question. They had a person with questions and a person capable of asking and understanding the answers, and instead he just starts murdering people.

Quote
2001 was a bright & happy ending. Prometheus had a dark ending.
Prometheus ends with Shaw and David flying off into the stars full of hope at finding their answers. There's nothing dark about how it's handled in the movie.


windebieste
Mar 02, 2017, 11:48:26 AM
Reply #4 on: Mar 02, 2017, 11:48:26 AM
Q
There are some days I love 'PROMETHEUS' and other days where I loathe it.  I've never felt such a polarised opinion of a movie like this before.  It looks great, sounds fantastic, the art and design of the whole production is amazing and when it hits it's narrative mark it comes close to a bulls eye. 

On the other hand, the times where it misses the target completely are just as common.  Some of the f**khead characters really drag it down for me.  Yeah.  They're memorable, sure, but being memorable for the wrong reason is not a positive aspect of the movie.  Then there's some of the ludicrous scenarios that are more convenience without any rationale.  The exploding head is a good example. It adds nothing to the movie. except "Ooooh, lookie!  Exploding head scene!  How gross..." but beyond that, it's just a senseless scene.

'PROMETHEUS' big problem is it's uncertain of its audience.  It's too intellectually driven to satisfy your average popcorn fueled, spectacle seeking audience; and yet, on the other hand, it is too stupid for a more demanding audience seeking stimulating material.  People discuss this movie just for its grand scope and preparedness to embrace big ideas.  They also discuss its failings as well.  Hardly good grounds to call it a great Sci Fi film.

In this regard, it's not really that much different from your average episode of 'Star Trek'.  Popular, sure.   Average, you bet.  But it's not necessarily representative of what the genre offers at its best.

'Andromeda Strain' is still considered to be a film - for the greater part - that accurately depicts scientific processes in a fictional narrative framework.  Something that 'PROMETHEUS' is completely devoid of. 

-Windebieste.


Hemi
Mar 02, 2017, 11:51:03 AM
Reply #5 on: Mar 02, 2017, 11:51:03 AM
Q
A. The Visuals and the virtual experience
agreed

B. David
agreed... good acting and interesting character.

C. Imaginative futurist concepts
Only the medpod caught my eye. The rest ...meh

D. Layered characters & story
Nope... nothing to see here. Sloppy script, lazy development. Too much randomness and unexplained shite. Horrible imo. I still don't know everyones names tbh hahaha.

E. Space Jockey & the Juggernaut
Mja... it's ok. But not as spectacular as you describe it imo. Sorry. Part of the original mystery around the jockey got degraded to a guy in a suit. Shame.

F. The Med-pod scene
Good concept...for an Alien movie.

G. Rolling spaceship scene
Still cracks me up. I know Vickers isn't running in a straight line, but still... such a lazy way of getting rid of her and it looks really stupid.

H. The whole biological lifecycle madness
Black goo feels lazy a underwelming imo. And damages the lifecycle imo. "ALIENS! Because of FLUIDS!"
Wish they went a different direction, but we have to live with it now. Each their own.

I. The mysteries and questions to discuss & ponder upon.
Pretty sure more people talk about why this movie did not deliver and what went wrong, lol. It promised to answer questions and it totally did not... It only raised more.

J. Finally, the movie's ability to render better repeat-viewing experience.
Only because folk want to see were things went wrong. It's a frustrating watch for most.

Starting to wonder if you seen the same movie haha.

Love how you whiteknight the entire movie though, and I realise it's impossible to even try to convince you. And that's fine, because of internets and all. It's ok that you love the movie, but to claim everyone who doensn't is stupid...well... isn't very progressive. It's an opinion, just like mine.

Different strokes for different folks.  :-*


whiterabbit
Mar 02, 2017, 12:03:51 PM
Reply #6 on: Mar 02, 2017, 12:03:51 PM
Q
Prometheus rocks. Oohrah!

Well not much more to add then that. I still remember the utter mediocre feeling I had leaving the theater at 2 am. However I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. Prometheus took one of my favorite films and said, hey there's a lot more f**ked up shit out there waiting to be discovered.


Hemi
Mar 02, 2017, 12:13:07 PM
Reply #7 on: Mar 02, 2017, 12:13:07 PM
Q
And I play ACM form time to time...lol. (sometimes just walking in mp maps alone blurting out taunts with my Hudson character)

Nothing wrong with guilty pleasures, as long as you realise that it's nothing more. And I agree Prometheus did show us there is more. But beyond that, it's kinda empty and shallow.

BUT HEY!! Sometimes you just have to try something different to realise that what you had wasn't that bad after all. :P


dave1978
Mar 02, 2017, 12:13:34 PM
Reply #8 on: Mar 02, 2017, 12:13:34 PM
Q
Prometheus blew chunks.   

It stole / hijacked concepts from the Alien universe to drag in the fans and then didnt expand on it at all as everyone was hoping / expecting it to do so.

For great sci-fi go watch 2001 & 2010 space osyssey films,  now they have imaginative concepts.


Beardomorph
Mar 02, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Reply #9 on: Mar 02, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Q
First of all
Quote
People who dislike it are labelling it as an 'incoherent mess' just because they didn't get answers or are the ones who also happen to not have paid attention to so many things (for instance, Vickers and Shaw turning a sharp 90 degree turn at one moment and not just running in straight line) or are downright stupid (such as expecting the 2094 medicines to today's standards)
No. This is just untrue. There is a case to be made for Prometheus being labelled an incoherent mess even if you recognise its qualities, even if you're not stupid, even if you've paid attention and don't mind that some things are left for you to deduce.

I'd call Prometheus a decent movie. It's got a good premise, a great set piece ( the medpod scene ) and great visuals but it also has some big flaws.

It's been discussed to death, but the character logic in this movie is very distracting. It's a scientific mission to try and meet our creators. It's a big sic-fi adventure that could change the history of mankind and our understanding of life. As a result, with stakes that high, it's very distracting when scientists start acting unlike scientists... Holloway's actions throughout the movie are extremely problematic when you're trying to take the movie seriously ( which is required for the movie to be effective ).

First of all, the fact that Holloway insists to go and visit the pyramid straight away after Janek says there's only a couple of hours of sunlight left is just dumb. They have been sleeping for years, they're about to go through the biggest science mission of their lives, it doesn't make sense to rush a mission this important, when you take into account that they are so far away from Earth and that they don't know what they could find.

Yes, I get it, they want to show that the character is impulsive. But he's neither alone on the mission nor in charge, so for his impulsiveness to endanger the mission several times in the movie is very annoying, all the more given that he's supposed to be an archeologist ( which, believe it or not, is a field of science that does require patience ).

Yes, the air is clean in the pyramid. Doesn't mean that there couldn't be pathogens that human beings wouldn't have defences for in their immune system. Once again, it's meant to show Holloway's impulsiveness, but it's just really difficult to take the mission seriously with a scientist taking such risks.

Then there's Holloway getting drunk WHILE his companion is working on the Engineer's head. It makes zero sense at that point in the mission for an archeologist to get drunk and be disappointed WHILE they're in the middle of a successful mission ( they did find Engineers, they did find dna samples to prove the ancestry, and as the rest of the movie proves there ARE still live Engineers in there ).

So yeah, you can make sense of Holloway's actions by just dismissing him as an impulsive person, but then it just doesn't paint him as a serious scientist, and not having a serious scientist in a mission like this makes zero sense. Which makes immersing yourself in the movie a bit difficult at times.

It also makes it really hard at times to understand how Holloway and Shaw can be a couple... the chemistry isn't there - although maybe other people do think they have chemistry? - and he doesn't seem to have much regards for her opinions and for her work. So the problem that stems from there is that it's difficult to feel much of anything when Holloway gives her a rose or when Shaw witnesses him being burnt alive. It doesn't help that she doesn't really seem to grieve his death very much afterwards... there are a couple of references to him afterwards but that's about it. She breaks down at the end, but it seems to be more about everything she's gone through than about Holloway.

Putting Holloway aside, the other main problem I have with this movie is the mutated Fifield sequence. Not only does it serve to dispatch a big portion of the crew, most of whom had barely uttered three words throughout the movie ( which makes the whole scene feel a bit... like filler ), but the way it's edited with Shaw running out of the medpod is very awkward. These two scenes were clearly not meant to be happening at the same time - further evidenced by Shaw being the one originally running Fifield over - and the whole succession of events in these few minutes doesn't come together at all. It doesn't help that the effects on Fifield are really quite underwhelming. I suppose that's something else that's subjective, but compared to the Hammerpedes, the Engineers and Cuddles, Zombie Fifield just doesn't really feel like it belongs in the same movie.

Anyway, I could actually go on and on but these are my main issues with Prometheus. The issue is that these specific problems I have addressed can't really be solved by extra scenes, answers of any kind, or heavy thinking. They're just flaws. I don't know if Holloway was badly rewritten in the final stages of production ( he was fine in Spaiths script ), or if he was just badly miscast, or both, but that character really kills parts of the movie for me.

That said, there are also lots to love in Prometheus, but I can't call a movie great when some moments take you out of the movie completely. As a viewer you suspend your disbelief, but the movie is supposed to help you do that. Having an archeologist on the most important mission for mankind act the way Holloway does is too distracting... for me at least ;)



'PROMETHEUS' big problem is it's uncertain of its audience.  It's too intellectually driven to satisfy your average popcorn fueled, spectacle seeking audience; and yet, on the other hand, it is too stupid for a more demanding audience seeking stimulating material.

This. Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

EDIT : Something else that makes zero sense for the characters is that at no point in the movie does any of the crew comment on the fact that there are several domes lined up one after the other although we can perfectly see them right before landing. Why wouldn't anybody comment on something like that! How does it come as a surprise to Shaw at the end when David tells her there are other ships? Is David the only one of them with eyes and a brain on this scientific mission?

« Last Edit: Mar 02, 2017, 01:57:32 PM by Beardomorph »

The_Foxcatcher
Mar 02, 2017, 01:00:50 PM
Reply #10 on: Mar 02, 2017, 01:00:50 PM
Q
Just for references, pasting something that I mentioned on a different board:-



Not all the character were morons. Only Milburn & Fifield. You should remember that half the crews were recruited by Vickers. When it came to pilot, she hired the best one, which ultimately back-fired her at the end. When it came to scientists, she hired mediocre ones as she seemingly didn't want to have expert advice for the expedition and have her dad's agenda succeed. Shaw & Holloway were obviously not her recruits. And neither did they act stupid (Except if you want to nitpick on Holloway, to have his helmet removed after both David and Ford confirming that the air was much cleaner). A hint was already given in the movie when Vickers tried to mandate Shaw & Holloway to report back to the ship once they find any beings down there. So if Milburn & Fifield were Vickers' puppets, its obvious that she gave the same instructions to both of them even; and that's what happened, both Milburn & Fifield opted out - to report back to ship after they found the dead alien being and got lost.

That's the only stupid act I see: getting lost; yet not completely stupid. People say that Fifield had the whole maps and stuffs. Yes, but the Pups were activated from one particular point after entering the Dome. And from there, the pups went hovering inside the dome. None of the pups went out. So the route from the point where the pups were activated to the exit wouldn't have mapped. So Fifield & Milburn would have gotten lost after reaching the point where the pups were activated.



Le Celticant
Mar 02, 2017, 01:50:36 PM
Reply #11 on: Mar 02, 2017, 01:50:36 PM
Q
I think what stroke me the most was how messy the script / edit was done in the end.
Especially the "transition" between act 2 and act 3.
There's in a gap of 8 minutes in the film, Shaw moaning her loss, getting betrayed by david, getting a CSec, Fifield going all mutant thing and Weyland that reveal with Vicker being her daughter.
8 MINUTES in a 2 hours film.
So yes, the film is filled with a battalion of stuff that raises questions that are not very relevant to the narrative of the action.

I think the film also opens with a major spoiler killer i.e. the SJ giving birth to life.
It should have been there to mean more than just a few set of unanswerable questions like "is it earth? is he creating humans? why is he doing this?"
The thing is, since the opening of the film, you see what an engineer looks like and what they do.
So when the moment finally arrives when they "meet their maker" sort of speak, it feels completely unimpressive.

But yeah, like SiL, definitely an editing problem in the film, I'm sure there's either a good 30 minutes that is either too much or not actually there.


Hemi
Mar 02, 2017, 01:50:50 PM
Reply #12 on: Mar 02, 2017, 01:50:50 PM
Q
Janek had access to giant space map and knew damn well where they were. The storm hadn't hit using that as an excuse won't work. It was simply put...stupid. A plothole by some bad writing.

And it wasn't just Fifield and Milburn.

Quote
Shaw takes out an alien octopus from her belly. She lets him/her/it/wtf inside the machine and does not try to kill it herself or ask the crew to bring a flamethrower in the surgery room if they have a craving for squid rings with an after-state of placenta.

In order for Shaw to access the surgery room and make her own custom caesarian, she had to hit 2 other crew-members on the head with a blunt metal object. Those two crew-members will 2 hours later join Shaw for another mission in the alien cavern and none of them will ever mention that Shaw used to have an alien baby in her stomach, that they were savagely attacked, or that they can’t walk straight anymore since their brains started to leak from their nostrils.

Putting aside the previously mentioned problem of Shaw not telling anyone about her hentai-potent child, it is shocking to see no one did anything about it either.

Most of the crew were stupid imo.

It's entertaining though, watching all those obvious mistakes unfold on screen.

When the credits roll, I only have 2 words on my mind: "Nice try"



echobbase79
Mar 02, 2017, 08:48:24 PM
Reply #14 on: Mar 02, 2017, 08:48:24 PM
Q

I was watching it last night and another part that confuses me is how does Janek figure out that LV-223 is a military station? Where did he get the information from?

It was a deus ex machina type moment.


 

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