Do you consider the AVP movies canon?

Started by Giger Beast, Jun 20, 2016, 02:41:19 AM

Do you consider the AVP movies canon?

Yes, to the Alien universe only
0 (0%)
Yes, to the Predator universe only
4 (5.3%)
Yes, to both universes
24 (31.6%)
No I do not consider the AVP movies canon
48 (63.2%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author
Do you consider the AVP movies canon? (Read 22,139 times)

Lonely Universe

No, never. I actually try to pretend they don't exist even in the real world.

marrerom

Yes, because the films are canon.

Novak 1334

No.  They take a huge shit all over the series continuity

Lonely Universe

They are also just plain dumb & make the Alien franchise look like kid stuff.

Then again, so does Alien Resurrection but that's maybe not canon anymore either if Blomkamp gets his way. (& I hope he does! [emoji851] M'huay)

windebieste

Of course they're canon.  Fox released 'em.  They're Official.  They're canon.

Quote from: Alien64 on Aug 04, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
They are also just plain dumb & make the Alien franchise look like kid stuff.   

Exactly the same thing can be said about old Kenner action figures, comic books and video games - regardless of how popular they are.  They're all still official releases and canon as far as I am concerned. 

Quote from: Alien64 on Aug 04, 2016, 01:57:39 AMThen again, so does Alien Resurrection but that's maybe not canon anymore either if Blomkamp gets his way. (& I hope he does! [emoji851] M'huay)

It's still canon right now.  Even if Blomkamp does go ahead with his Project, 'ALIEN: Resurrection' is still an official release and will be considered 'Alternate Canon', just like some comics and - if you like - the 'AvP' movies.

By recognising everything Fox officially releases - whether it be good or not - as canon is the way to hold them accountable for quality and consistency.  You can't just say 'It's shit therefore it's not canon'. Opinions, ironically, mean jack shit as far as Fox is concerned.  They'll release what they feel is appropriate.  If it bombs, the onus is on them.  Where it belongs.



-Windebieste.

SM

SM

#20
And yet, you know perfectly well that's not how it works.  Or has ever worked.

Perfect-Organism

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 20, 2016, 07:32:25 AM
It was filmed with the intent of being a sidesquel type thing with no continuity with the original films.

Really?  Is this a fact?  Why go to the effort of having Charles Weyland played by the Lance Henriksen?  ANd then in the second film, why set up the Yutani intrigue at the end?  It seems they were intended to be continuity but then,,, well, they sucked.

I voted to keep them in the Predator universe but now I kind of wish I just voted no completely.


Quote from: windebieste on Aug 04, 2016, 02:23:29 AM
Of course they're canon.  Fox released 'em.  They're Official.  They're canon.

Quote from: Alien64 on Aug 04, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
They are also just plain dumb & make the Alien franchise look like kid stuff.   

Exactly the same thing can be said about old Kenner action figures, comic books and video games - regardless of how popular they are.  They're all still official releases and canon as far as I am concerned. 

Quote from: Alien64 on Aug 04, 2016, 01:57:39 AMThen again, so does Alien Resurrection but that's maybe not canon anymore either if Blomkamp gets his way. (& I hope he does! [emoji851] M'huay)

It's still canon right now.  Even if Blomkamp does go ahead with his Project, 'ALIEN: Resurrection' is still an official release and will be considered 'Alternate Canon', just like some comics and - if you like - the 'AvP' movies.

By recognising everything Fox officially releases - whether it be good or not - as canon is the way to hold them accountable for quality and consistency.  You can't just say 'It's shit therefore it's not canon'. Opinions, ironically, mean jack shit as far as Fox is concerned.  They'll release what they feel is appropriate.  If it bombs, the onus is on them.  Where it belongs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRLAg6NKv0Y

-Windebieste.

You're comparing in-universe canon with official licensed product canon.

Lonely Universe

Sure everything is canonical to itself, but they are no longer a part of the official timeline. There are plenty of the old Dark Horse comics I love & they aren't either. AVP has been great in every medium except film.

I don't feel it's a slight to anyone, just better to keep the wheat separate from the chaff.

SpreadEagleBeagle

"Re: Do you consider the AVP movies canon?"

Short answer: No

whiterabbit

Where's the "Canon to the Alien vs Predator universe only" option? I consider the series a completely separate and self contained knock off of both the aliens and predator franchises but nothing that happens in avp is canon to either property. However canon in itself is already a meaningless debate. Canon is only meaningful if one has sole ownership. Nowadays, everything is muddled.

426Buddy

Quote from: whiterabbit on Sep 08, 2016, 11:58:05 AM
Where's the "Canon to the Alien vs Predator universe only" option? I consider the series a completely separate and self contained knock off of both the aliens and predator franchises but nothing that happens in avp is canon to either property. However canon in itself is already a meaningless debate. Canon is only meaningful if one has sole ownership. Nowadays, everything is muddled.

My thoughts exactly  :)

RaZorbakk36

Well. Yes i absolutely believe that The avp films should be shot out of a cannon. ..because anderson f**ks up everything he touches.  Setting up avp 2 to be equally Shitty. . Both have good concepts in them . Predator homeworld/yutani.  .. i cant think of ashit for the first one. .. as i hate  everything about it. From the way the predator flails around like  an idiot while leaping . To swinging an alien around by its tail. To how my filmaker friend sat next to me squealing in glee at everything i hated. ..  i forgot my point. .. if i ever had one at all. .. a severely edited version of both movies exist. Cutting each down to something 40 minutes.  Making them into  predator chronicles  episodes That was watchable.

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Bughunter S. Thomson

Bughunter S. Thomson

#27
I think the fact that not only was there a swarm of fully developed Xenos, an Alien Queen and a completely different species of Alien, all on Earth 118 years before the events of the Nostromo, it kind of trivialises the discovery of the crew in the vast darkness of space. Part of Alien is a cautionary tale about how venturing into the unknown can have disastrous results.

Canon, in my opinion, should be sometimes subjective, rather than be at the hands of some exec trying to control a franchise. I saw fans of the Star Wars books being outraged when they were told that the books that they loved and invested so much time on were no longer considered canon. If you love the source material, by all means keep thinking of it as canon!

The said can be said when it goes the other way. When I first heard about AVP, I was dismayed when I heard Paul WS Anderson was directing. Mortal Kombat was silly fun, but not to be taken seriously. Event Horizon I enjoyed, and it was obviously because of this movie that he was handed the AVP rights. But even the premise is not something a big name director would pick up even based on it's name alone. Seeing it was getting a PG-13 rating told me that this movie was not made for me, but a younger audience, and horror and gore would be sacrificed to be replaced with tame monster mash action. This was confirmed when I saw it in the cinema. After it had finished I remember wishing the film would bomb, because I had a lot of fears that this would become the direction for future Alien titles. The film is very much like a video game - There is a backstory briefing, they enter the temple, it is split into levels, fights take place one after the other in escalating difficulty, and Lex gets a weapon upgrade before facing off with the final boss. It could be argued that this was based on the PC titles and praise it's adaption, but to me it isn't an Alien or a Predator movie and feels more like a product to make money.

If Alien 5 were to use the plot device that Aliens are on Earth because of the discovery of an Alien Queen on the ocean floor of Antarctica, I would be outraged. AVP is a stand alone franchise for me, the same way I look at the Ewok movies and the Star Wars franchise - Lesser talented directors being given rights to produce something with a known and loved movie name to make a quick buck. They don't reach the same levels of quality, get mediocre reviews and the audience knows that they are being sold an inferior product. This happened recently with the painfully average new Ghostbusters film.

I used to wish Alien 3 wasn't canon. The death of Hick and Newt was painful, making the whole significance of what happens in Aliens redundant. But over the years the film seems to have matured like a fine wine. I remember thinking what a depressing experience Ripley's final movie was; Dark, flea infested and industrial. Ripley had horrible bleak final moments, her death didn't seem to hold much gravitas, dying pretty much alone, surrounded only by faceless soldiers and a prison inmate. Even a glimpse of her old friend Bishop turned out to be another deception. But when I watch it now, I do appreciate the film, especially with the director's cut. But I know it is these irks from the fans that has led to 3 and 4 being scrapped in favour of a continuing story from Aliens.

Long story short: Decide for yourself what you consider canon. If you love AVP then by all means include it with Ripley, Dutch and Co.   


Kaltes

Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Sep 08, 2016, 05:11:52 PM
Long story short: Decide for yourself what you consider canon. If you love AVP then by all means include it with Ripley, Dutch and Co.   

I heartily agree with this, I wish more people thought like this too.

SM

SM

#29
QuoteCanon, in my opinion, should be sometimes subjective, rather than be at the hands of some exec trying to control a franchise.

Those creating content in the franchise need a common point of reference however. 

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